Saga What if Grievous had known the whole story about the Sith?

I just came to wondering - for General Grievous - he's not really a bad guy in a sense is he? Given for a Kaleesh Alien and this may be a double-standard BUT he did have strong honor and ideals fitting him as a warrior by Kaleesh Alien standards BUT you know how in the Clone Wars he committed nasty atrocities and killed a handful of Jedi Knights and Jedi Padawans and Jedi Masters (perhaps how the Jedi High Council members by other Jedi Masters still) BUT he was somewhat 'FORCED' into it where his people were bankrupted and starving after the Yam'rii Huk War PLUS how the Republic put the responsibilities and reparations on KALEE rather than the Yam'rii Huk ... AND THEN when he formed his Izvorshra and later when he had to work for the Banking Clan as a thug enforcer so the Kaleesh Aliens wouldn't starve BUT then later he brokered off the deal and the fact how Count Dooku and the others planted the Ion Bomb on his ship and he was then mangled yet he was restored as General Grievous and how Count Dooku claimed THE JEDI DID THIS! THE JEDI ARE RESPONSIBLE! LOOK AT THE SUFFERING YOU AND YOUR PEOPLE HAVE ENDURED! and General Grievious then developed a vengeful streak and a hatred for the Jedi and the Republic...

BUT BUT I was wondering - IF General Grievous had found out it was Count Dooku whom was responsible for the Ion Bomb ... IF Palpatine and Darth Sidious were the same individual ... COULD General Grievous have 'repented' and 'reconsidered' and he could have actually joined the Republic and helped the Jedi then and to 'right his wrongs' ... given General Grievous may have hated the Jedi - but that was a misguiding on Count Dooku's part and how General Grievous he - really just wanted the best for the Kaleesh Aliens in the first place BUT due to tragedies on the Huk Yam'rii War and his Ion Bomb Shuttle crash ...

Edited your title to remove the all caps - please try to use them sparingly. Also, ease up on creating threads - please post a bit more in existing threads before creating another one.

 

Sidious would have had him killed if he even slightly showed any sign of doubt in the cause. Unlike when he fought the Jedi Grievous would have been extremely vulnerable to a darkside a simple force choke would have been all it would have taken for Dooku or Sidious to take him down or failing that force lighting would certainly dropped him.

 

Would you say though that General Greivous would have considered joining the Jedi or atleast helping them against the remaining Separatists? I mean next to Palpatine and Count Dooku most other Separatists are nothing more than puppets or a row of sitting ducks waiting to be shot and roasted by the pot-luck roast ...

 

I dont imagine he would have differentiated between sith and jedi and with his hatred would have most likely died even sooner

 

Hello again! Its just - well he wasn't like malevolent or downright 'I WILL DESTROY YOU ALL' Doomsday quote type - given he cared about the Kaleesh Aliens and he just wanted to make ends meet well for them and well he was 'mislead' and 'goaded' by the fact THE JEDI CAUSED IT ALL! And he wasn't always 100% friendly with the Separatists if you think about it - he was only loyal to Count Dooku and Palpatine (as Darth Sidious) as the 'necessary heads of Government' ...I mean if he just listened and realized that the Jedi really didn't do all the things and lies he was told about ...

 

He was pretty malevolent actually, he killed a few of his own crew (literally) because he was in a bad mood, he was fully intending to hold the entire city hostage when Obi-Wan found him and there's no reason to think he wouldn't have made good on his threat of killing them if the clones hadn't appeared. He wasn't even that loyal to the Sith, he was just cowardly/pragmatic enough to figure that he couldn't actually beat them in a fight so might as well go along with it. He was benevolent (in his own way) to his own people but anyone who's not Kaleesh and he doesn't give a damn. He's a bad guy for sure.

 

Well - but General Grievous was quite loyal to Count Dooku and well Palpatine via Darth Sidious and the fact General Grievous hardly ever really displayed any malevolent intent or ill will towards Count Dooku; true he may have argued with Count Dooku at times BUT he seemed to respect Count Dooku and how in The Clone Wars when Nix Card 'beseeches him' to hurry as the Senate was restless and General Grievous angrily snapped back 'I DON'T TAKE ORDERS FROM YOU ... ONLY COUNT DOOKU!' SO ... surely perhaps he still had a sense of honor and such - and he may have had temperamental issues BUT still given he did really just want the best for the Kaleesh Aliens AND the fact how he did suffer personal tragedies when his love was killed in the Huk Yam'rii Wars ... And how he nearly got killed in the Ion Bomb Shuttle crash ... PLUS how Geonosian Engineers tempered with his brain and such to enhance his aggression against his will during his reconstruction ... I mean SURELY even Master Yoda - with a little subtle 'Form 0' which was practically the most peaceful of Lightsaber combat - using words and reason to calm your opponent down ... SURELY General Greivous would have considered helping the Jedi and well against Palpatine who was the true common enemy who was playing both sides for stupid yet as if he were playing Dejarrick ...

 

Lots of characters suffered tragedies, not all of them turned into genocidal Jedi-hunting cyborg maniacs. He blamed the Jedi for everything, and with whatever tinkering they'd done to his head, if his aggression has been enhanced then clearly that's unlikely to make him likely to stop and think about things. He doesn't care about the politics and he doesn't care about the Republic or the Separatists, he wants revenge pure and simple. Whatever honour he's got doesn't extend to anyone who isn't a) Kaleesh or b) can kick his shiny metal ass, as Dooku would have made clear he could (force lightning is not a cyborg's best friend.)

Grievous has no interest in 'discovering the truth', or any reason to listen and think for himself. He just wants to wipe out Jedi. He's a bad guy, perhaps he might not have been once but by the time he's General Grievous, cyborg general of the Separatist armies, he's gone way off the deep end.

 

Grievous' was the conflict between the Kaleesh people and the Huk. Eventually, the Kaleesh kicked the Huk off of their home world, thus the Huk turned to the Republic for assistance. The Kaleesh were then forced back to their own world by the Jedi.

Bingo.

Bingo x2.

 

Exactly. This isn't like Darth Vader who got things royally confused and needed a chance to turn back to the Light Side. Grevious cares for only one thing: revenge. If he found out it was the SITH who had hurt his people, he would have gone after them himself. He holds no code of honor other than 'what's best for me and my people'. Jedi, Sith, Droids, Wookies, Yoda's Unidentified Species, they're all the same to him. He doesn't care about sides or allegiances. Anyone hurts his people, they're his target.

The only difference here is that instead of Obi-Wan killing Grevious, it'd be Dooku/Sidious killing Grevious before he could wrap a mechanical hand around their throats.

 

Even if Grievous DID turn, it would be to get personal revenge not because his political perspective was any different. And the odds of him beating Dooku or Sidious are minimal for me anyway. Dooku trained him and will know his weaknesses and in true Sith fashion will no doubt have left out some small but very important details when it comes to defending his personal style; Sidious is good enough to take on four Jedi masters at once, he probably could take Grievous in a fight. That's even before you consider them simply crushing/frying him with the Force at long range, which they'd have far less compunction about doing than any Jedi.

 

Whatever Grievous did or did not know really didn't matter. The guy was put into a status of power (however insignificant it is compared to Palps) and he got to hone his warrior skills and kill Jedi. That's all he was really about, IMO.

Jedi, Sith, he just liked a challenge.

 

Hmm - I see - but then again Obi-Wan rather 'rhetorically and cynically' remarked to General Grievous 'an army of no spirit - no loyalty .... just programming! What have you to show for all your power? What have you to gain?!' and General Grievous remarked 'the destruction of the Jedi...' along those lines ... and the fact how the fact how Obi-Wan remarked how mutilated General Grievous was to be only 'Dooku's errand boy...' and the fact how I find it unusual General Grievous - I wonder why Obi-Wan or even a Jedi with half a decent about of Force skills could surely 'recruit' General Grievous using Force Mind Tricks or Precognition? Surely that could help him 'see the error of his ways?' and to teach him 'true honor eh?' I mean General Grievous ain't 100% Force-proof or such ...

 

How long does the Mind Trick last? If it wore off, then Grevious will just go right back to killing Jedi.

 

Plus it only works on the "weak-minded". Grievous may be many things - but I don't think he's that - the only person (in the EU) who successfully used it on him was Palpatine, in Labyrinth of Evil:

"You can display me, but I won't speak"
"I can display you, and you won't speak"
"You will do all the talking"
"I will do all the talking"

 

Sorry The Sith Camp but you're really missing the point entirely. There are ways and means that Jedi could use the force to slow Grievous down but he has no desire for redemption or motive to change, he kills Jedi because he wants to kill Jedi. He's not got some hidden nobility deep down inside, the closest he's got left to a shade of grey is wanting to do right by his own species - and only them. He can be beaten, he can be tricked, but he'll never willingly change because he doesn't want to. Revenge is all he lives for, that's his sole motive in existence. Even if Obi-Wan or any other Jedi was to try and use a force trick on him it's unlikely he won't have been given at least a basic run-down in how to resist those (he's THE commander of the Separatist armies, quite a big deal) unless you're dealing with a seriously powerful Jedi. And even if it DID work, he'll still be a genocidal cyborg, he'll just be one whose killing Separatists instead, using the same brutal (and very un-Jedi) tactics he used against the Republic - he won't redeem himself as a person/

 

Hello Ladies and Gentlemen whom replied on General Grievous being 'bound' by the Force Mind Tricks; well - what about Mace Windu then again? I mean in the non-cannon 2003-2005 Clone Wars Cartoon - he gave General Grievous a severe Force Crush ... and if Mace Windu had Shatterpoint PLUS even if say Cad Bane whose will allowed him to resist regular Force Mind-Tricks - what if suppose Anakin, Obi-Wan and Mace-Windu suppose by chance the 3 of them together applied The Force Mind Tricks on General Grievous the same manner as Cad Bane ...

As with hidden nobility - well he does have honor for a Kaleesh Warrior - and consider he has had to fight the Yam'rii Huk at a young age and the fact how his significant other got killed in a violent fight and then his Ion Shuttle bombing PLUS he had to work for the Separatists - well the Banking Clan at first as a thug and enforcer even though he thought they were a 'soul-less organisation' and he cared for the Kaleesh Aliens still ... but it was just misguided and tainted ...

 

Yeah, but the point I am making (and I think others are getting at/agreeing with) is that whilst he did not start out as a monster, by the time this Kaleesh warrior actually became Grievous, cyborg Jedi-killer, he's already beyond redemption. Losing his lover and the fighting he did make it understandable/sympathetic that he became twisted... but he still ended up twisted. Once he's got to the stage he's been turned into a semi-robotic being designed specifically to better fight/kill Jedi it's pretty clear exactly what his eventual aim in life actually is: killing Jedi.

All the force trickery in the galaxy won't change his actual character. The mind trick will fool him and make him think he doesn't want to kill Jedi, but it won't be a willing deliberate change he made of his own free will. And with the force you could beat him in a fight, or even kill him... but he'll die wanting to kill Jedi all the same. Luke did not change Vader, or redeem him, Vader redeemed himself thanks to Luke showing him the way. There is no-one and nothing in the galaxy that could turn Grievous off his path of vengeance in the same way.

 

Irredeemable you say eh? Really? Interesting - I always thought it was PALPATINE who was downright irredeemable - consider for someone who was to be one of the most Powerful Sith Lords in the Galaxy of SW and the Emperor of the Galactic Empire plus the fact how he murdered millions if not billions to achieve his plans, manipulating others with emotional blackmailing yet he's also not above the fact of murdering his own family in the Darth Plagueis novel and the fact how he didn't give 'a Force' about anyone - even those loyal to him if they weren't anything much worth as a credit left to him he'd just simply have them executed or kills them off! Pretty sure other than him or just mostly Ancient Sith Lords whom are the real irredeemable beyond help individuals ... whereas General Grievous - pretty sure deep down he's eternally still grieving for his significant other eh?

As with Anakin - but a similar path eh like General Grievous eh? Whereas atleast until ROTJ - Anakin by the time of ROTS for the time being he was but beyond help really and the fact despite how Padme was adamant she knew he was still a good person deep down - but you could say like General Grievous Anakin still remained to a degree 'twisted' not just physically but to a degree psychologically himself ... and even Leia refused to forgive him or accept him at first when he returned to her in spirit pleading with her for wronging her and such ...

 

I remember hearing back when the original CW animated series came out that Grievous hated Mandalorians, and that was largely his motivation for joining the Separatists (since he could kill Clones... who were cloned from a Mandalorian). I don't recall where I read this or how true it actually was.

 

You may be thinking of Durge.

 

O.O - good point indeed - actually now that you mention it - isn't it odd how Durge wasn't considered for 'cloning' by Count Dooku? I mean considering:

1.) Durge had vengeance streak against Mandalorians almost like how Doomsday hated Superman ...
2.) Durge was like the 'Doomsday' of Star Wars - even if the 2003-2005 Clone Wars cartoon wasn't cannon anymore (still fun to watch eh?) - odd how surely his Gen'Dai heritage helps eh? Or Gen'Dai is difficult to clone?
3.) Durge has like centuries of experience - being around for about 2000 years - so surely then given he's survived 'death' well 'left for dead' from Mandalorian Torture and insanity from his torture of being buried for 60 years underground ....
4.) He claimed to have killed Jedi ... and how he taunted Obi-Wan's team when on Oh'ma Dun that he planned to kill them plus more during the week being a 'damn good week' well actually courtesy of Wookiepedia '"You know, it's been over a century since I killed a Jedi… and today, I'll get to kill four of you. Add that to the Gungans I already murdered, the hostages I'm going to kill later, and all the Naboo who will die tomorrow, and it's a damn good week."
5.) He did work for the Separatists or rather volunteered his services as a chance to have a crack at Jango Fett ... in the form of Clone Troopers ...

So surely isn't it odd how Count Dooku could have 'hired him' to be a clone genetic template to supplement the Roger Roger! B1 Battle Droids eh?