Books A/V DARK DISCIPLE (Ventress/Vos novel) (spoilers)

No, but we are discussing the morality of the Jedi.

We disagree here, so, no, not 'certainly'.

 

Well he was't justified per say, as it was against the Jedi code to kill and unarmed prisoner. However the TCW had him coldbloodedly kill a few persons, often killing them from behind which is symbolically and histically associated with evil and dishonor or executioners and Lucas had his ROTS comment also come off as comic relief but the delivery and look on Anakin's face it clearly affected him and was against what he believed. In order to be a true hero you have to go beyond revenge, it was Palpatine that fed him the revenge speak about Dooku taking his arm and it being natural, but it was clear it did not have the desired affect on Anakin nor did Palpatine's order to leave Obi Wan behind. Immediately after Anakin murdered Dooku, he regretted it. Anakin was still acting selflessly and not completely giving him yet to submission to Sidious. Problem with Star Wars is that the writing is unclear and leaves too much open to interpretation and guessing and looks designed to deceive and confuse the audience. Heroes are blurred, as even these Jedi we learn are not so good.

 

I'm not so sure that's a problem. Being open to different interpretations are necessary to keep interest in a franchise going. The most interesting characters in Star Wars have always been the morally ambiguous ones. If you try to squish everyone into "good guys" and "bad guys" you'd become disillusioned real quick (or end up with a cancelled TV show).

 

Just started reading this last night so I'm not very far in. I took a look at her book list and noticed that she wrote A.D. 999 under the pen name of Jadrien Bell. I've had the book in the bookcase for years (copyright date is 1999) but didn't recall it. I started it today alongside Dark Disciple and it's pretty good so far.

 

Honestly I wish she didn't die that way. I think she should have been like "I am done" and left far away from the war. Then they could have killed her off in a different book. But it was still a great book and at least there is closure in her character.

 

So, just finished. My main thought is that it was way, way too faithful to the TCW scripts. The broad strokes of the plot I'm fine with, and Golden generally did good things with what she had, but eight TCW episodes do not a novel make. It should've been streamlined substantially so much, much more time could be spent carefully earning all the big turns and twists rather than flying through them. Look at LotS--like it or hate it, if that story had been told with DD's pacing it would have been seven pages long.

 

alrigt, finished it. it was quite good, though a gunner named "Threepwood". really? was that an inside-joke from LucasArts?

anyway, the novel still leaves room to make the Republic comics happen, though you have to really really really want to do it and (over)stretch your imagination. get vos a brainwash - check. vos a double-triple-etc-spy? check. vos turning dark? check. vos a general for dooku? check. no mention of aayla secura? hell, was ashoka ever mentioned in the movies?

not even ventress' death is final (imho), the final words of the novel leave it open to get her back. tholme's death... we just have ventress' and dooku's word and a holo to "prove" it. as we know, in SW, if there's no body, there's no death

ventress was written pretty good, I think, but then again, I also liked how golden introduced vestara kai (way back in the good old EU times). all in all, a solid novel, one of the better ones of the new canon, though I don't get all that overhype on twitter and facebook

 

Threepwood was in Republic Heroes.

 

Sorry that I'm late to the party, but I just finished the book. So Vos (a character I really like) just goes free after all he did? I realize they have been trying to show that the Jedi lost their way and it lead to their demise in ROTS. However, the way Vos is handled throughout the novel (especially at the end) makes them all look incompetent on a level that just doesn't work for me. So they just come the conclusion that since they pushed Vos into the mission that it's really their fault in the end, so he doesn't have to be punished at all for his actions? This book went from making my top 10 favorite Star Wars novels to my 10 least favorite in the last 5 pages or so.

 

When do you mean? If you meant when the book ended, Vos was still a prisoner and we didn't know what happened to him next.

 

Look at the final chapter, especially pages 298 and 299. It sure doesn't seem like any real punishment is forthcoming. Kenobi goes on about how we (Jedi Council) lost their way. No real blame on Vos. "Vos knew he could never repay Kenobi for that, but he had the rest of his life to try." I'm sure we will get clarification later, but for now, this doesn't sound like Vos is facing any real punishment. I realize that the Council have many missteps that lead to their downfall, but some of the decisions made by the Council, especially Yoda, seem too far out of place and downright comical to me.

 

We do know some parts of his future. Vos is mentioned in Revenge of the Sith commanding an army of clone troopers. So in less than a year he goes from murdering clones and fellow Jedi to back fighting as a general on the frontlines.

 

I see a no win for the Story Group here. If they forgot this, then what good are they since the main job is to keep continuity for everything to be canon. If they knew this and approved the plot of Dark Disciple anyway.......seriously? I really don't know what else to say. This is very disappointing to me as a Star Wars fan who loves the EU, but wants to really give this new direction a chance.

 

And people wonder why I can't stand TCW, LFL never really tried to make it work, beyond claiming it worked, thanks to Lucas' flippant attitude towards continuity.

 

What, in what scene was he mentioned?

The council said that obi-wan could let him come to Dathomir so he could have Ventress's funeral, once they came back I believe he got somewhat punishment.

 

The Outer Rim Sieges. Obi-Wan to Anakin. Anakin mentioned he was held up. Padme I believe.

 

The briefing scene where the Jedi are going over the state of the war. Anakin comes into it late I believe. Here's the quote from Obi-Wan: "Saleucami has fallen, and Master Vos has moved his troops to Boz Pity."

 

The Council wanted to kill him, minus Yoda and Kenobi. After everything was over they went with a process of atonement and gradualism towards complete reconciliation. He had to face trials and test as part of his penance, and prove himself and all of that kinda thing. He's apparently gonna be watched closely and has to carry out deeds. But not sure how fighting a war on the battlefield is gonna make him a better Jedi again since thats the whole problem with him and all the Jedi - the war and the Jedi being soldiers and killers ect ect. TCW/SW logic I suppose, but what can ya do?!

 

This revenge of the sith thing is abit of a problem for continuity, well I shouldn't complain, it's not as weird as Darth Maul's return.

 

Someday I wish someone would write the Clone Wars from the perspective of Anakin. It must have been insane. Nothing makes sense. Obi-Wan signs up for a padawan and Anakin gets one. The Jedi accuse said padawan of crimes after years of self-sacrificing service when no one seems to notice Barriss has become completely nutso in her room. Mace is too busy saving Jar Jar and his fem-Mars Guo GF from the Temple of Doom or trying to "talk" the droids out of working for the Seps to care about anything else. Yoda uses Anakin to break out of the Jedi Temple and never tells him why. The Order takes R2 from Anakin and gives him to a shellless snail "military colonel" who's never actually been in a battle ever. Yoda's telling Padme to flirt with her old ex for military secrets. Obi-Wan goes to fight Maul alone even though there's no chance in hell he's going to win and everyone knows he's doing it for Satine. Vos kills a bunch of folks and falls in love with Ventress but that's ok cuz he said sorry and they give him some troops.

Seriously Anakin must have been like this by the end of the war:

 

The part of the ending that really irked me was how Dooku's escape was just glossed over. Personally I was hoping it'd be a bit like the ending of TFU II with Dooku getting transported back to Corus cant for trial and interrogation leaving room for a sequel where Maul or somebody else rescues him with Vos having to guard his lovers killer and all the emotions that'd leave him with.

What we got was "Dooku managed to escape once again" HOW??!!?!?? He was seriously injured surrounded by clones and Jedi, I don't care if Sidious sent a ship or not if Dooku couldn't escape a band of drunken pirates then how exactly did he get out of that one?............

 

Spoiler

Watching Ventress set herself up for being hurt later is really depressing, I have to say. She clearly lied about Dooku killing Vos' master while fostering hate for the killing. No doubt when she finally tells him the truth, he'll never be with her.

 

Yea that is bad. Seems to have occurred offscreen and there is no details just Vos speculating to himself. I truly do not understand the writer's logic, why would Dooku pass up the chance to turn on Sidious during SOD when he could've allied with two of the most powerful beings in the galaxy, Maul and Talzin- there he was so loyal supposedly to Sidious because he was so powerful in his eyes. Even if Dooku felt Talzin would betray him, how did it work out any different for him at the hands of Vos?! Makes no sense. Atleast with them he stood a chance. In Vos, Dooku supposedly sees a true Sith unlike Ventress whom here Dooku complete despises and brushes off as a weakling and a darkside flake . Meanwhile in past episodes Dooku was shown genuinely bitter and resentful towards Sidious for punishing him by ordering him to kill his assassin whom Sidious himself acknowledge had grown so powerful to Sith Apprentice level. But here, its Vos, who Dooku sees as a Sith Lord, like himself a corrupted Jedi. But even in TCW you got the impression both Dooku and Sidious were trying to turn Anakin towards the darkside, its like he forgets all about Sidious' plan with Anakin and he was warned by Talzin even of his eventual soon to be betrayal - while in ROTS Dooku was genuinely shocked that Sidious would order his death at the hands of Anakin. Seems they tossed that out, Dooku is no longer like Vader in thinking they'd turn the young warrior to the darkside but just a complete fool.

I don't get what was so special about Vos either he wasnt that young either he looked older than Kenobi in if you're using that TPM background character as Vos which canon apparently does.