Discussions Could Anakin have survived being 'Baked' on Mustafar? So imagine Anakin without the Darth Vader Suit

I came to wondering - when Anakin was half-dead and half 'baked' on the shores of Mustafar's Lava Channels - he was nearly abandoned by Palpatine at one stage - BUT I was wondering - WHAT IF Anakin was not placed in the Sith Armored Suit ... could he have still survived? I mean there are means of Force-Healing Techniques - some being esoteric Dark Side Techniques such as Dark Transfer ... which Cade Skywalker used ... I mean given also in the Battle of Boz Pity where Asajj Ventress was able to use a Dark Side Meditation Technique to heal her injuries ... or in the non-Canon 2003 series K'Krukh was able to enter a 'Near Death' trance to fool General Grievous to think he had gotten and bested him but later he returned ... and Anakin using The Force long enough to keep him going until Palpatine came in ... BUT suppose he was not to be put in the Sith Armored Suit ... could he still have survived or even partially healed and regenerated? I mean 'The Dark Side is a pathway to many abilities some consider ... un-natural...' and also the fact how the if you look at Simus - one of Marka Ragno's Powerful Rivals - he managed to survive literally decapitated and considering Simus was an Ancient Sith Lord whom lived centuries before the Great Hyperspace War ....AND keeping himself alive - we atleast until he got betrayed and killed by Naga Sadow ... or problem is Anakin is not Marka Ragnos nor is he Simus and hence also he cannot just 'keep himself alive' even if he was Darth Vader? Any thoughts?

 

He died without his life support suit years later. If he was that powerful he'd have been able to use that power in ROTJ.

Without life support, he would have died.

And sure, they can always invent a way he could survive. Some new Sith thing, a new medical treatment. But going by basic medicine, he'd have died fairly quickly. And none of that fancy stuff beyond the suit was included as an option.

 

I know what you mean BUT then again in ROTJ after years since his last encounter on Mustafar w' Obi-Wan Kenobi anyways - surely then he would have been older and abit physically weaker? I mean even with The Force - its not like The Force 100% rejuvenates you eh? I mean surely then Palpatine could have in ROTS as 'punishment' and to 'break Anakin' he could have 'FORCED" Anakin to endure a true 'baptism of fire' - I mean Palpatine could have just dunked Anakin in the Lava Lake and FORCED HIM to endure the pain and agony and to see whether or not he was able to use The Force and the Dark Side to keep himself alive and to prove his worth eh? I mean he could have also 'fried' Anakin with Sith Lightning to see whether or not he was worth it eh?

I mean - as you know Anakin is not Darth Andeddu, nor is he Darth Sion nor is he Marka Ragnos nor Simus BUT still ... I'd have though given Anakin is probably one of them 'Force-Happiest' so basically he can get pissed off quite easily and if you tick him enough ... I was wondering surely then he could have just used his rage and despair to do something like Darth Sion or Simus given they themselves 'stubbornly refused to die' straight away ...

 

I assume if he could have, he would have at least attempted to. It would have been mentioned in the books I assume, too.

I really don't think Vader would have survived. I don't think he was educated enough in rituals of the Sith to do any of that. If taking the Old Republic as canon for a moment, these were some insanely powerful Sith who accomplished these things. He may be able to minimally prolong his life (a few hours, maybe) with the Force, but I don't think he has harnessed the Dark Side nearly enough to save his life.

 

Hello again! Its just really I'd thought if Anakin was THE CHOSEN ONE and had the potential to be practically one of the most POWERFUL of all Force-Users and such in history and well amongst the Sith - you'd think - taking in the EU canon - and of feats of the Dark Side users and Ancient Sith Lords - and for one whom claimed 'I WILL BE POWERFUL ... MORE POWERFUL THAN ANY OTHER JEDI THAT I CAN STOP DEATH...' to think that Anakin probably wouldn't be able to sustain himself for long ... I mean by the time of ROTS he was concentrated and immersed in his rage and anger - and it was to be nearly 2 decades before Luke could redeem him ...

Now that you mention it ... isn't it interesting Palpatine - atleast in the EU he didn't consider using Essence Transfer on Anakin into a fresh young clone body to serve him - yet confining him to the SIth Armored suit ...

And yes - as with this part on Essence Transfer - I've just posted a fresh new thread post about it ...
I mean its just look at Darth Maul - physically he surely is in superior prime and shape compared to Palpatine but it was just Palpatine's superior Force Knowledge and Powers that gave him an edge over Darth Maul ... and the fact how Palpatine ensured he only taught 'a smattering of knowledge' at all times to his Sith Apprentices ...

Admiral Volshe - now that you mention it - I find it confusing - Palpatine wanted a POWERFUL Sith Apprentice to help him - YET isn't it ironic and somewhat contradicting yet at the same time he had to be careful the Sith Apprentice would not exceed him? I mean you'd think surely then Palpatine could have just run the Galactic Empire by himself eh? I mean also considering how Palpatine declared that 'Darth Vader would be come more POWERFUL THAN EITHER OF US!' to Master Yoda before the climatic duo's duel ...

 

You said it yourself in your post.
"Had the potential...". I don't doubt he had the potential. He just didn't have the skill yet.

And I think part of the reason Palpatine wouldn't do that is because he didn't want Anakin more powerful than him. For obvious reasons.
I can't remember if that particular idea is canon, though.

 

Hello again! It was just - if you look at some like Kar Vastor - he was able to use the Force or rather Pelekotan - the concept of Pelekotan to survive and keep himself alive of the harsh jungles of Harun Kal...and he didn't get help only using the Force or Pelekotan...considering 'without food, water or supplies...' as Mace Windu remarked...

 

I didn't read Shatterpoint, so I can't tell you why that is. Perhaps someone else can explain the difference?
But I would assume that jungle survival would be a little less time sensitive, maybe a little easier to survive with just intuition alone. He could potentially sense the dangers around him and learn to adapt. Didn't the jungle also teach him half of his Pelekotan powers?

Anakin really only had so long to learn such a power and nobody to teach him. He was alone, burns to 95%+ of his body, and in pain. To learn a death-defying power he obviously didn't know (he wanted to know it to save Padmé)...that's asking a lot of him.

 

Hello again! I'll admit I hadn't read much either on Kar Vaster - BUT still - if you think - a wild dangerous and raw jungle - which probably has natural dangers you'd expect in jungles (disease, ambush predators, natural traps, sinkholes/quick-sand, deadly poisonous flora, contaminated water sources, monsoons, mosquitoes and bugs...) and the fact Kar Vastor still had no food, no water, no supplies and no help - and well I dunno what he had to do BUT he lost his humanity when developing his Pelekotan Powers...

Ah with Anakin - it was really just for the Chosen One and one whom was boasting that he'd be MORE POWERFUL than any Jedi to stop Death ... you'd think he'd have something but sometimes I'd say Anakin was way outta his Force's reach ...

 

It's really a testament to his power that he survived long enough to be put in the suit. His rage and hate in the dark side helped there too. Knowing Palpatine he would have come up with a couple of plans, probably already had one in mind, to cut Vader down to size later so he wouldn't surpass him one day. In time, Vader could have killed him and he knew that. So his injuries on Mustafar were convenient and saved Palps time later. The Jedi were gone and Vader was still more than a match for most anyway. As far as surviving without the suit I don't think he would have lasted too much longer without it. Even though it had a major weakness, which annoys me at times, it added to his power in a way. He was still powerful in the force and a highly skilled duelist. With the suit along with his mechanical limbs his physical strength went up exponentially. His knowledge in the force at this time was still lacking so without that to go along with his power he would have died on that lava bank.

 

Ah - but hate and rage are EXACTLY what the Sith use and by default anyways they'd always be angry and such ... otherwise - why bother w' the Dark Side of the Force eh? Anyways - its just where Darth Maul survived being bisected, Lord Simus surviving a decapitation in a duel w' Marka Ragnos, Darth Andeddu Essence Transfer, Marka Ragnos, Freedon Nadd and Naga Sadow as embodied spirits ...Darth Nihilus being coming a living Wound in the Force, Darth Sion a reduced walking talking Sith mummified corpse to name a few ... or would you say it would also depend on the physique of the individual? Given Darth Maul is a Zabrak alien - a warrior race known for high tolerance for pain (perhaps except when it comes to Palpatine), Lord Simus being presumably a Massassi/Sith Hybrid and Anakin on the other hand was but human ... I mean dunno what else Darth Sion employed BUT it was his rage and hate that allowed him to survive 'dying' countless times ...

Its really just the fact if Anakin had potential to become one of the greatest and most POWERFUL Force users and Sith in history - yet the fact how he was only in the end reduced to a hulk somewhat ... and emotionally he was but forever fragmented - even if he did redeem himself - consider its undeniable the wrongs and faults he committed could not be excusable ...

But I also thought - surely a number of Force Powers were not taught through a Master or Mentor BUT rather by self? I mean surely then the first Dark Jedi to arrive on Korriban - they had only themselves and later the Massassi Sith whom they conquered and the fact they were banned from the Jedi Order for delving into restricted Dark Side arts ...

 

The physique of the individual could certainly explain some of it. But I think it has more to do with individual's will. Few were as headstrong and determined as Anakin. His pain over believing he had killed Padme fueled his rage and hate. He had nothing left but the dark side in his mind. And he meant to make the entire galaxy feel as much pain as he did.

 

That's what I thought - but the fact how Anakin still required the life-support - or rather he had to placed in the iconic Darth Vader Sith Armored suit ... can you imagine Anakin though if he perhaps took on a form similar to Darth Sion or even Darth Nihilus or Darth Maul? Given these Sith Lords were physically maligned and mauled badly one way or another ... one being a walking talking corpse, one a walking Wound in the Force and one being confined to delusional madness for a decade before returning briefly as a threat to the Galaxy ... and then we get Anakin ... given odd how he didn't become a Wound in the Force given his potential and Midichlorian Count and Rage eh?

 

Perhaps the answer is as simple as there was still good in him.

 

Hmm now that you mention it - indeed

I wonder then for living walking Wounds in the Force - were they literally emotionally dead and extinct in a sense hence they became a walking Wound in the Force? Given look at Darth Nihilus for starters whom never 'gave a Force!' about anything and the moment his life changed when he lost practically everything - and even his physical self due to the Mass Shadow Generator's effects ...

 

Darth Sion was able to survive as a walking corpse through the sheer magnitude of his pain, hatred, and will in the dark side. I'm not sure how he accomplished this, but he, like Darth Nihilus and Emperor Vitiate, had been unnaturally empowered. Their very nature as individuals had changed and they had become more powerful than they were ever meant to be in the Force. The dark side can do that in some cases. Now, when Anakin had become Darth Vader, had he had the type of knowledge of the Force and obscure techniques as Sion, Nihilus, and Vitiate had, then perhaps he could have lived without his cybernetic suit. However, as the Chosen One, he was a Force anomaly with an indeterminate level of potential in the Force. The only other Force anomalies I know of are the Ones (Father, Son, Daughter, and Abeloth) and Anakin's immediate descendants, Luke and Leia. In theory, Anakin, had he had the type of knowledge of Force abilities that the Ones had, then he could have survived his immolation without the suit. As it turned out, however, he did not have such training and abilities, and so there ya have it. Darth Vader was still incredibly powerful after his cybernetic reconstruction, but I don't think he was powerful enough to defeat individuals like Sidious or Yoda. He could defeat some people more powerful than him like Darth Caedus, Darth Krayt, Nihilus, or Vitiate, however. (Jaina Solo was not as powerful as Caedus, but she defeated him. That's not the only example of that transpiring.) However, my point stands. Vader's potential in the Force was diminished by his immolation and cybernetic reconstruction, despite how dangerous and terrifying he was. His ability in the dark side of the Force was never absolute, either, since his thoughts of people like Padme and later Luke proved that the dark side never completely filled him. The dark side of the Force was required to sustain Darth Sion, Darth Maul, and others (possibly Sidious before his first death) who stayed alive. As soon as Sion felt love and the emotions that came with that, his immortality that kept his body alive was weakened and he later let himself die. Vader's abilities were limited by not being completely permeated by the dark side and his cybernetics, and therefore I doubt he could have ever achieved power to keep himself alive beyond all injury.

So, "no" to him having the power before his Mustafar disaster and "no" to later on.

 

Hello again! Hmm - interesting how you say against Darth Caedus or Darth Krayt ... or Darth Nihilus in particular - given couldn't Darth Nihilus just 'feed off' Anakin - unless Anakin deliberately 'overfeeds' him Force Energy and Power ...

As with the Dark Side of the Force sustaining beings - hmm - then again doesn't one need a degree of Physical Adaptations and if not, 'Durability' given Palpatine in the EU he aged rapidly due to the intensity of the Dark Side ravaging through him even through fresh clone bodies at times via Essence Transfer ...

 

Palpatine's specialty was in Sorcery, just like Darth Zannah. I imagine that Vader COULD have learned quite a bit of Sorcery, if Palpatine had taught him. However, he was only under Palp's tutelage for what, a few hours? No time to teach him any tricks of the trade, and the whole Dark Side Rage thing pretty much comes natural. I'm sure Palpatine taught Maul how to use the Force to survive life-threatening injuries because he knew that Maul would never be able as powerful as him, and he had nothing to fear. I don't believe Palpatine would have taught Vader everything he knew. In fact, Vader getting fried was beneficial to Palpatine because it ensured that the student would never be more powerful than the master.

Long story short, no, Anakin wouldn't have survived. He didn't have enough training.

 

Beyond master the ancient sith ability of essence transfer to a host body? No. If such a method to heal him existed, Palpatine would have used it to make his apprentice much more effective.

 

Hello again! But well taking EU games into account BUT Darth Sion - he only 'learned much of Pain' but of 'anything else' he didn't seem to be outstanding in it - as Darth Treiya explained - so wouldn't that be applicable then for Anakin? I mean Darth Sion all he 'gave a Force about' well was basically eradication of well the Jedi eh? I mean he didn't care much or GIVE A FORCE about much others ...

 

Depending on how pedantic you want to be, he and Obi-Wan would have both been incinerated on several occasions due to their proximity to lava. If not that, they clearly would have died of heat stroke.

Allowing for some considerable but not completely gullible suspension of belief, however, I think it's unlikely that Anakin could have survived. The main life-support feature of his suit seemed to be artificial respiration, and this makes a good bit of sense as it's not hard to imagine the damage his lungs would have sustained when he caught fire. There's also the matter of infection, which is typically how most burn victims die if they survive the initial event. I'm sure an important early function of the suit was to get him into a sterile containment, otherwise he would have been extremely susceptible. It's also likely that given the horrific extent of his burns, he would have lost consciousness and died of hypoperfusion, otherwise known as shock, if not immediately put on life support.

Then again, you're talking about a fictional universe that features laser swords, a mystical magic force field, and teddy bears defeating a highly trained futuristic military force with sticks and rocks. We've already established that anything is possible, so yeah, why not? Anakin could have survived, but only if it was written into the screenplay. Otherwise no.

 

The techniques of pain from Malachor, whence Darth Sion learned to cheat death, the power of Dark Transfer and perhaps even midichlorian manipulation, as well as ancient healing methods found in the lore of Darth Andeddu and Karness Muur (and practiced by Freedon Nadd on Exar Kun)... Or of course Sith alchemy, such as Simus surviving his beheading, or Andeddu keeping his mummified corpse animate... Techniques within the Force to heal Vader definitely existed, Palpatine simply didn't know them.

Nonetheless, it's interesting that SkyeWalkers moves the timeline of Palpatine learning essence transfer up to during or before the Clone Wars, yet Palpatine didn't ever teach Vader. Evidently he planned to outlive Vader from the very start of his tutelage.

 

I think that Palps could have healed Vader without the suit, but he realized that it's better to have Vader on a leash. With the suit, he's still more powerful than almost every other Jedi, but will never be a threat to Palps (or so he thought).

 

Whether he could have survived of not, and I'm inclined to think the latter, I believe the reason Sidious left him in the suit was to enslave him completely. I've seen it theorized that with technological advances between RotS and ANH he could have potentially been in a better suit/on a different or lesser level of life support. But Sidious can't have that, or he'd become too powerful, less subservient.

 

Plus, that suit is incredibly vulnerable to Force lightning, which is something that Palps just so happens to specialize in.