ST Rian Johnson to write and direct Episode VIII (and also new SW Trilogy - see page 194)

It actually tells me that visual aesthetic (and tone) is a huge part of my response to Star Wars. Unlike many fans, ROTS is my least favorite Star Wars film. And I think the look and tone of that film has a lot to do with that.

 

Rian Johnson was hired before TFA even began filming. JJ already made up his mind he wasn't doing Ep 8.

 

The difference between Chiang and Church is best illustrated in two designs they created for vehicles. Maul's speeder and Grievous' wheelbike.

Chiang:



Church:



No contest. Chiang's is simple, yet menacing. Church's is...well...a wheel with legs with a chair in it...

 

I'll agree with this; at least to me, it matters immensely. Although I think it's the weakest of the six films, to its credit The Phantom Menace does feel like the most like a Star Wars movie out of the three prequels. Attack of the Clones, less so, Revenge of the Sith, hardly at all. It's something I noticed as a kid when the films were coming out, and it's something that definitely sticks out now when watching them. The Force Awakens definitely has the look and feel and visual flavor of the world down, even in the distinctly new elements, which is really where it matters the most. Hopefully Johnson can keep that running in VIII, and Trevorrow can do the same for IX, while simultaneously instilling their own unique sensibilities into the film. It's a tricky balancing act, but it's important to get it right.

 

Wow, I feel the complete opposite in this case. The first one looks like an odd rocking or gaming chair, while the second is at least obviously not for kicking back and watching the game or playing Need for Speed. Maul's is menacing only because of its pilot, whereas the wheelbike is threatening even if my grandma is driving it.

 

Chiang's designs feel more Star Warsy to me, simple and stripped back.

 

This. Church's stuff is so overwrought it gives me a headache. And how is it a good design idea to give a wheel...legs?

In a funny way, you've made my point for me. "Maul's is menacing...because of its pilot." There's no need to overdo the design of his bike, because when Maul rides that simple, half-circle speeder, it looks sleek and menacing.

In the case of Grievous' wheel-bike, it's overkill. Grievous is already a scary, multi-limbed, saber-wielding psycho robot. To then put him on such an OTT vehicle, with its jagged wheel and robot legs,was too much. The competing menacing designs overwhelm and consume each other, almost. Like Ouroboros.

Chiang would have given Grievous a simple vehicle to balance him off. Something like:

 

Star Wars.


Star Wars chewed up and vomited out.

 

We should probably get back to talking about Rian Johnson...

 

i love both. gl chose the designs anyway. a sw movie is a sw movie. they don't have to feel like the ot to be sw.

 

But your point continues to be the vehicle itself looks menacing, which I argued it just isn't. It's a speeder and serves it's purpose well, but it's still just a speeder that anyone could ride. I don't disagree the design works, just that it is in anyway creepy.

I admit that's probably nit-picking.

GG's vehicle may be over the top, but in Church's defense it reflects the character, who was always making an (over)statement. The dude had four arms, so his ride had four limbs too. For a contemporary analogy, the wheelbike is GG's Hulkbuster. It's a complimenting, not a clashing design. And it isn't meant to be any more subtle than calling your space WMD the Death Star.

Also, I submit the "chewed up" argument puts Star Wars in a box it will never stay in. Abrams and Johnson shouldn't limit themselves to what we might consider sleek and simple and Star Warsy. The GFFA is vast and varied with plenty of worlds and creatures and designs left in it, undiscovered. And if, as the story expands, the plot calls for the stylistically bizarre they should embrace it rather than playing it safe.

 

I don't disagree that the GFFA is vast, and can be varied. I just believe Church produces bad design.

Chiang created lots of new vehicles, aliens and worlds. They are quite different from what we saw in the OT. But because he's a good designer, with an eye for form and composition, his designs stick. They are easy to process, and memorable.

I just hate Church's overwrought, cluttered style, which gives the eye no place to land. It's a jumble, and my mind rejects most of it.

Just a matter of taste, though. Nothing to argue about.

Agreed.

So, Rian Johnson. Cool guy. Here's a picture of him on Tatooine:

 

That's probably because Lucas consciously set out to make new films that took design and art direction to a different place than the OT. As it stands, the PT is 50% of what currently constitutes Star Wars... so by default they look like Star Wars. I strongly believe that Johnson will be far less influenced by the look/feel of the OT than Abrams was/is... and I’d imagine that VIII will be a tad more progressive (in terms of design/art direction) for that.

 

That's exactly what I was thinking when I read that- the PT as well as the OT will always be the groundwork for "everything Star Wars" that comes in the future. Others will put a certain degree of their own signature on it for new SW media (movies, books, TV shows, etc.), but the original 6 will always be the foundation from which it all is built.

 

Agreed... and I think that future movies... be they sequels, parallel stories or prequels to the PT, will lend heavily from Episode I-VI, because it's those 6 films that have established the visual reference/continuity of a GFFA.

 

I don't really agree. Abrams was doing that because it takes place after VI and you want a continuation of the feel and look of those movies, which makes sense continuity wise. The next movie would naturally progress a bit away but I don't see Johnson trying to go away from the look or feel of the OT. That's just your dislike for Abrams talking.

 

That has nothing to do with it. TFA takes place 30 years after the OT. It has just as much requirement to look like/reflect the visuals of the OT as the PT did (which is set circa 20/30 years before the OT). Of course there has to be some form of visual continuity between all the films, this isn't about that, or the ST looking unrecognisable. The point is that Johnson is clearly less obliged (from an artistic perspective) to make Episode VIII visually like the OT. If you have read any of the interviews he's done (prior to getting the SW gig), he (Johnson) has clearly different drivers/influences than Abrams does.

 

Lucas set out to make a very different looking trilogy, that was before the Empire had it's stronghold on the galaxy. Everyone including Lucas said this series should look largely the same as the OT. However, post ROTJ the effects would still look largely the same, especially since battles were still happening. So again I don't agree. You act like Johnson doesn't love what Abrams has been doing. lol

 

I'm not sure Lucas has been quoted as saying the ST should stylistically, visually, aesthetically resemble the OT??? I think Lucas would have moved the aesthetic on for sure. What do you mean by “post ROTJ the effects would still look largely the same”?

In terms of Johnson, I just think he’s a more talented artist than Abrams and will be less bound up in aping/mimicking others, which for me is one of Abrams biggest faults.. Whether Johnson actually rates Abrams, I neither know nor care.

 

Pretty positive it was in the Vanity Fair material where Lucas was discussed and how he also wanted it to continue that look. I also think Johnson is more talented but he's more talented than most who have worked on Star Wars, you have a dislike for Abrams so everything you say has a hint of bias to you when it comes to him. Like you being in denial that Lucas would want the movies to be stylistically similar, no way Lucas could say that it must be Abrams fault. That's the vibe I get from your posts a lot.

Maybe I'll get the same way when Colin is being talked about more approaching the final movie, because I don't care for him but I'd like to think i'd give him the benefit of the doubt and wait to judge his ability once i've actually seen the movie.

 

Lucas wasn't interviewed in that Vanity Fair article was he? I think you are conflating the notion of Lucas wanting to perhaps make the next films smaller, more 'natural' perhaps, with that of following the same aesthetic of the OT. Not the same thing.

In terms of my "bias" against Abrams, you do comprehend that you are biased too? You get that yes???

 

I am willing to bet money Lucas would have given the Resistance and the FO newly designed fighters, for example.

Yep, I believe Lucas movie would have had a more imaginative design.

 

Kasdan said that even when Lucas was still around everyone was in agreement the movies should be more retro and have the look of the OT. Also, I'm not biased. I think Abrams is a good choice but the notions you are bringing up are strange to me. It has nothing to do with defending Abrams as it does with, it makes complete sense to me. It's continuing the look of the OT no matter who the director is I would be defending that because it's a natural progression from those movies. There's new ships in the movie, there's new aliens in the movie. What is supposed to be different exactly? The AT-AT's are radically different looking and move different. The shuttles are different. The lightsaber ( while some people hate it) is different. The sith aren't the focus whatever the hell the Knights of Ren are ...is the focus and it's apparently not a come in two system.

So much of what you say is out of the hate of Abrams and less about the movie itself. Much of which are assumptions without having seen it. Even I believe Rian Johnson will be better but he has the ability to expand things more because it's the second move in the trilogy, anyone who's handed the second movie has more opportunity to be creative and branch things out more.



Everything that comes from you is essentially... " Abrams is doing it so therefore it won't be done right."

 

Just clarifying on Lucas and TFA having a more retro feel.

In the VF article Kasdan says that at an early stage, when he recalls that 'George was still there', there was a sense that they wanted a slightly retro feeling that was more tactile, less CG.

From that, it's difficult to glean if this was something Lucas himself wanted.

Edit: FWIW, I misremembered Kasdan as attributing this idea to Lucas directly.
Bummer that Lucas declined to be interviewed for this.

 

So not only are you attributing something to Lucas that he didn’t actually say, you can’t even contextualise Kasdan’s quote adequately/honestly. Do you work for the tabloid press?

I don’t wish to appear rude, but I think you are confusing my response to your previous posts as a green light for protracted conversation.