PT A Thread For Prequel Fans To Discuss New Star Wars Content (spoiler tags required)

Fine. Enjoy your echo chamber.

 

SeventySeven Anyway as pointed out this thread as ever is turning into basically "what are you moaning abut the PT just was crap..."

As ever as more none fans are piling in.

As usual.[/quote] SeventySeven quote



I haven't been reading a lot of PT bashing here. It seems like most everyone participating in this thread has been respectful of the PT.

 

In a way, I'm still in the middle on this. I mean, I make no bones about the fact that TFA (at least at face value) has taken the Saga in a completely different direction than I'd have liked.( I tried to get my mother to join our TFA viewing and even she remarked "Don't they have any imagination? It looks like the first movie with a different cast." She did join us for the whole PT & KOTCS. She didn't like ROTS & KOTCS,though,so it's kinda her third strike......)

But at the same time, the appeal to me is the original cast. To see Han & Chewie at the Falcon's controls again? I NEVER expected to see that again.( I actually remember telling my brother long before the ST was announced 'If they only had Ford behind the Falcon's controls for one scene and paid him $45,000,000 to do it, it would be worth seeing the movie.') So I could never really dismiss this film entirely. Good or bad, I've got my chance to see the sequel to favorite movie of all time with the original cast returning. How could I not be excited? I don't wanna be "that guy" that completely hates the film, just because it wasn't entirely what I wanted. (cough PT Detractors cough)

As far as Abrams goes, I don't hate the guy. I enjoyed both of his ST pictures. I was actually the only guy in the comic shop willing to defend STID as a "good" film. Having said that, both films are far from the original concept.(As I've gone on record before: Cartoony womanizing Kirk, romantic,unlikable Spock, Scotty played for broad comedy, a completely undisciplined crew,etc) But they had the built in excuse that this was a "new timeline" and all that, so he didn't have to stick to original canon. In the end, it was entertaining, if not what I was hoping for. I'm guessing that ultimately, TFA will likely be the same,with - God willing - a bit more care given to the original cast's characterizations.

 

KOFTCS?

 

Kingdom of the Crystal Skull.

 

Ahem..... TPM starts with a crawl declaring that the Trade Federation is blockading Naboo due to a dispute over the taxation of trade routes. Not for kids. No kid gives a crap over the taxation of trade routes.

In ROTS, we see a man dismembered and burned alove. Also not really kid stuff. That same guy is also a self-confessed murderer of children, and in the same movie, it is implied he murdered yet more children. That's pretty mature stuff. Take anything George says with a very large grain of salt, as he typically will say whatever serves his narrative at the time.

 

Agreed but IMO the general opinion out there about the PT is not hate but unfortunately disinterest & apathy. The sort of things I've heard countless times are "The prequels, you mean those bad newer SW movies, not the originals"? "The prequels, they're the ones with JarJar Binks aren't they? Aren't those movies supposed to be terrible?"

Cool but just to be clear: a "PT fan" can prefer the OT to the PT. They could even think the OT is 10 times better & still be a PT fan. It's not an either/or proposition. They may also decide that TFA is better than all of the prequels & still be a PT fan. There are many degrees & types of fandom.

Bambi is for kids. SW is for a general audience including kids. If it were "for kids" Lucas wouldn't have delivered a PG-13 movie last time around. Which is also what TFA is.

Where were you when the TIE/First Order complaining dragged on for months? Or the practical effects broken record was playing non stop? Maybe you can do something about the ridiculous "fan fiction" meme. There's no meat left on the bones of that horse

But all they did was imply that the PT used too much CGI. Big deal. Alot of even hardcore PT fans agree with this. That isn't saying they were bad movies. It's just one technical aspect of film making. Pretty trivial stuff IMO.

Just for something different I have to disagree. The Zahn novels in 91-92 were huge & topped the best seller lists. Their success was a big reason for Lucas getting motivated to make the PT. The roleplaying games, video games & novels were all massive throughout 1983-1997. Then the ANH SE was a huge hit. An old movie from the 70's out-sold all but 7 movies for that year!

Correct as Lucas did in the PT. Both on screen & in the marketing. The OT & ANH in-particular is a pop culture Goliath. Was amazed with the AMA's the other night. Hosted by J-Lo, featuring all of the usual acts, hip-hop artists, pretentious pop stars etc. Everyone acting "cool" throughout the night. Then as the grand finale of the show they had the John Williams tribute. An orchestra & an acapela group performing SW music with SW footage up on a big screen. So the entire awards show ends not with some pop music performance, but with a several minute long standing ovation to Williams & Star Wars. Crazy stuff. Reminded me of the 84 Oscars that I described a few days ago.

 

Just to add. I do like the PT. I find tons of interesting stuff to talk about in them. I do, however, recognize that they have flaws. I think TPM is very deeply flawed. AOTC less so, and I think ROTS is pretty good (maybe better than ROTJ.... depends on my mood). I do prefer the OT, for a number of reasons (for one thing, I'm just a big fan of the Empire as villains), but that doesn't mean I'm not a fan of the PT overall.

 

Don't PT/Saga/Whatever defenders say the same thing about that when people say that they didn't like the PT? As to tell off the fans for not liking or understanding the PT? That the saga is only supposed to go the way Lucas wanted it? Not the way the fans wanted it?
Unless it was you or me or anyone on this board personally making the movie and directing the actors, of course it wasn't going to go the way any of us wanted 100%.

 

I don't want to be a killjoy, sorry if I am, but I wasn't "amazed" by the AMA spot. ABC is owned by Disney, and it was an obvious commercial more so than it was a tribute. It was mostly all about familiar OT iconography that the general public will easily recognize. TFA will appeal to the masses because of that alone, rose tinted simplistic memories. These are the same type of people who think that the only episode of I Love Lucy worth watching is the Viteameatavegamin episode, for Andy Griffith, the black and white ones with Don Knotts, for The Sound of Music, the movie and not the play, (if they even know it was a play first at all), I could go on, but you get the picture. Its all about quickly recognizable visual elements that have been engrained in pop culture and will strike a reaction even in non fans. So while I do hold that they are trying to court PT haters, I think the marketing is mostly about attracting casual fans and getting them more excited than they would typically be for a new SW movie, increasing the audience.

 

As much as I love many classic Disney films and characters, let us be clear that Disney is about courting people with money who want to give it to them. Binks would be the main character in TFA and would end up killing Luke and Chewie if Disney thought it would rake in more cash.

 

I was referring more to the audience reaction. & to the fact that it's perfectly acceptable to have a 10 minute Williams/SW tribute to end a major awards broadcast.

That's a bit condescending towards "the masses". Also a bit simplistic an observation in itself. SW is so big that many of the masses are genuine fans.

 

SeventySeven quote



I haven't been reading a lot of PT bashing here. It seems like most everyone participating in this thread has been respectful of the PT.[/quote]

Maybe, but in a 'for prequel fans' thread I'm feeling the odd one out.

I'm sure there are were others around who liked the films around here a few days ago, and by like I mean without having to say

"I mean they do have there flaws, there are good bits, I like the OT 10 times more, but they have there moments, ROTS is nearly as good as ROTJ, could do with less CGI, the fights are a bit choreographed, the CIS are no threat and Grevious is a throw away villian just like Dooku and Maul. Hayden's acting is a bit whiny, and I don't buy 'the turn'....or actually all this talk of Tax, which sinks TPM, though I actually hate AOTC more which pretty much leaves the end of ROTS which is ruined by Vader saying 'NoooOOoooOOooOo'.

Aside from that - I'm a fan !"

I'm beginning to think there are maybe only a handful of people who like them with no need to apologise.

In which case, Disney - good call !

 

I saw Mockingjay - Part 2 today and they showed the TFA Theatrical Trailer. I must say it's an amazing experience seeing it on an IMAX screen and whenever I watched it, any thoughts of rehashes disappeared from my mind.

Let's hope the movie does the same.

When I just watch the trailer, I have no nervous thoughts about the film. But when thinking deeper about the trailer, I have quite a few concerns. I have no doubt the film will be entertaining but whether or not it'll feel like a true Star Wars sequel as opposed to a remake of ANH is another matter entirely.

 

I'm just going to point out that I really, really hate this argument. Kids aren't stupid. When my brother was 5, he introduced my family to one of the best kids' shows ever (edit: actually, one of the best shows ever, period) -- Avatar: The Last Airbender. Guess what that show contained? It depicted a father burning his son's face for standing up for new recruits and then later trying to kill that same son. It depicted a complex moral world in which the protagonists lived in sexist societies while their antagonists had full integration of women in the military. It depicted a 14 year old girl undergoing a complete mental breakdown and trying to kill her brother. It talked about how Kings were reduced to figureheads while their ministers took control of the military behind the scenes and brainwashed the population.

Kids aren't stupid and they can deal with complex moral issues and disturbing content when it's presented appropriately. I'd argue that Avatar: The Last Airbender despite being rated Y7 and appearing on Nickelodeon, tackled a whole host of subject matter much more maturely and adeptly than most programming targeted at adults.

Star Wars IS for children. It just doesn't talk down to them.

 

C'mon now my PT friends. Do you not see what is going on here. You are letting Darth Downunder as well as others move the conversation away from discussing TFA and moving the discussion once again into us having to defend the PT.

Again, the irony of him questioning people as to why some of us continuously harp, negatively, about TFA, only for him to continuously try to turn this into a 15 year old PT debate is crazy. It starts to come across as sheer hypocrisy.

By now we should all realize that the Darth Downunder and Strongbow (s) of the world will not ever change their opinion. So we should stop playing into their attention grabbing ways for them to get us riled up, and just let them move on. Concentrate more on the people that do like the movies. Concentrate on people that may be on the fence. Let these guys go, ignore their attempts to sway discussion away from something they are trying to protect because of their own internalized, self interests. Don't let them put us on the defensive because we like the PT.

 

I don't believe TFA will be a remake of ANH or a rehash of OT storylines. Based on the footage we've all probably seen multiple times, I sense the TFA is going to be a great sequel to ROTJ with similar character archetypes from the OT and musical type "beats" that will echo the OT, but which will have an original story that will augment and solidify the deservedly beloved reputation that SW has in the hearts of millions of fans.

 

I think that was the intent of some people, when the link of this thread was posted on the TFA forums earlier, gathering people here who aren't very "PT friendly" (if I can call it this way) so they could garner support for their opinion differing from others here. That was certainly an excellent way so this thread could derail and be locked: a certain way to push us back on the corner or to shut us up simply because... we have a different opinion from the more vocal group and some of us don't share the same excitement as them about the new movie.

I would also add that there's nothing wrong in having different opinions, we can discuss. But the way I see things, since we already had two warnings from the moderator here, things are most likely to derail.

 

A few people have mentioned this AMA event - American music awards? I don't suppose 'The Duel of the Fates' was included in the suite, did they show any PT footage ?

 

Agree with this 100%. I've started to set these posters and others on "ignore" and it is so freeing. No more getting frustrated and feeling insulted by backhanded sarcastic comments from people who really aren't that big of PT fans, despite what they say.

Its great to focus on posts from people who really are PT fans like the thread description says. To discuss TFA and other new content with a critical eye that won't get ridiculed and thrown aside as "imaginary" or "bashing" or whatever else they've managed to call it.

Its a great feeling and I suggest anyone else who has been similarly frustrated by some posters to do the same, so we can actually discuss new star wars content as PT fans again

 

The last two movies have been rated PG-13, which means "Parents strongly cautioned - some material may be inappropriate for children under 13." So they're not movies specifically "for children". There's G & PG ratings for that.

 

Right. SW appeals to people of all ages and it's truly a credit to GL and everyone involved that these films are so impactful and memorable to such a diverse group of fans, spanning all ages etc.
TFA will be the same way, I'm positive.

 

I'm not entirely sure what you're saying. But for the sake of clarification on my part, I was saying I don't wanna be that guy -like many PT detractors- that "throw the baby out with the bathwater" so to speak. Letting one or two points become the basis for discounting the whole film. The movie could have a "rehashed" plot, but I'm still fairly determined to enjoy what aspects I can, such as the original cast.

 

I'm avoiding spoilers pretty well, but from what I can see now, I see Rey mirroring both Luke's and Anakin's stories to some extent. Finn's story seems like a new twist on the other hand. Time will tell, but I'm not ready to label anything a rehash or ANH 2. We'll all know more in a few weeks.