PT The Greatest Love Story of All Time

Do you think the Anakin-Padme love story is the greatest tragic love story of all time?Their love is so beautiful, and genuine, and inspiring..... and it's so sad how it all ends.

 

No.

Romeo and Juliet.

 

How about neither?

 

Yes

I adore its beginnings, turbulent development, powerful blossoming, radiant lasting - and then horrific downfall

Romeo and Juliet but even more tragic. Romeo didn't end up attacking Juliet and causing her death. That's a lot more screwed up

 

It's a tragic love story cast in an epic mold.

So, in a way, yes.

I think it's quite astounding to think that, hey, this Jedi Wunderkid, he really only becomes a Jedi, and then a Sith, and then trashes the galaxy, all for the love of a single girl.

"We gotta do something, Artoo!"

His desperate urge to help, to have some fun, and, ultimately, save and impress the girl he cares about -- it's all there in that pivotal scene in TPM.

For all of Vader's internal suffering, and the suffering he inflicts on others, it all goes back to a place of indomitable innocence.

Powerful stuff.

 

Don't get me wrong. I enjoyed the Anakin/Padme romance very much. I found it satisfying in a tragic way and rather complex. But I do not regard it as the "greatest" love story. In fact, I can't think of a fictional romance that I view in this way.

 

Yeah. It's a tough label to foist on something as complex as romance.

 

I agree completely. I say Romeo and Juliet for the influence it has brought onto other love stories, as well as it's influence on Anakin/Padme.

 

It's about the only love story on film or television so far that captured my interested in a significant way.

The beautiful scenery, haunting music, two people looking for something that's missing in them, the tragic aspect about being forced to lie about their love because society wouldn't approve it, the ultimate fate of both lovers despite best intentions.

There is something about. The dysfunctionality of the whole situation that's contrasted with the sheer beauty of it is something that still calls for my attention and appreciation.

 

Yes. Beautifully said.


I also find it being mirrored in my personal life, right at the moment.

Ah, George. Look what he did!

 

I actually think the love story was one of the worst aspects of the PT. But different strokes for different folks.

 

Great in theory, terrible in practise...

 

In terms of their story alone, it was one of the greats. It was the most tragic love story I've ever seen. It had that element of forbidden love, courtly love, childhood romance, and wartime romance. They were beautiful together.

In terms of it's impact, it was definitely the greatest to me. This love story resulted in the destruction of a galaxy and spawned twin galactic heroes, who then spawned a new terror and - probably - a new hero.

 

It was more tragic to me than Romeo and Juliet, anyway, which I've never cared for. That last scene between Anakin and Padme on Mustafar was truly heart-wrenching. The best scenes about their romance are the ones in which you can see it falling apart, strangely enough.

 

I think their ROTS interactions were believable (I know folks are making fun of the balcony scene, but I don't find it bad, honestly). As far as AOTC goes, I like some of their scenes and I can see what George was trying to do with the others even if dialogue/acting gives me pause. I think it was a huge mistake not to include Padme's family scenes and her conversation with Anakin about wanting to start her own family. Because of that, people are still asking what she found in Anakin.

 

You're right, actually. It's normally just the first two that get noticed. I like your breakdown.

Plenty, I think.

Consider the line: "You'll always be that little boy I knew on Tatooine."

This also helps:

http://www.lardbiscuit.com/lard/shroud2.html

 

Yes, I can rationalize what's going on but it's a pity it wasn't conveyed in the movie as well as it should have been.

I just watched the extended version of AOTC with deleted scenes in it (the only kind of a fan edit I acknowledge) and it works a lot better. Basically, the movie should have had:
- The scene on the ship where Anakin has a nightmare and Padme consoles him. It shows she has some motherly feeling towards him and reminds us about her caring about Anakin in Episode I
- When they're going to meet the Queen and she's saying she wants to start the family of her own (ditch the actual meeting with the Queen, it adds nothing and makes Anakin look like an ass).
- The dinner scene where her family assumes Anakin is her boyfriend and they actually have a good chemistry together. Then the one where she's talking about Anakin while he's outside with her father. The rest of the family scenes are nice but not necessary.
- Switch the picnic and the kiss.
- Don't know about the fireplace scene. The dialogue aside, it kind of sticks out, there's no transition from their dinner together. There's some awesome symbolism and foreshadowing there for the eventual fate: the choker on Padme, the fireplace (fires of Mustafar - you can tell Lucas already had an idea about that), Anakin's "I can't breathe" and that the lie would destroy their lives.

With the deleted scenes included, it become more obvious that both she and Anakin have lived in very formal environments and are used to putting duty over their desires. We know Anakin has been dreaming about Padme since he met her, but it also become clear she remembers and cares for him, too, and that after postponing the fulfillment of her desires to serve her duty it's the first time in her life she can have something for herself and have a handsome knight openly show his ardor for her must be really flattering. And honestly moving from more rigid environment on Coruscant to the lush, romantic vistas of Naboo would put anyone in a romantic mood But he's a Jedi so their relationship is forbidden, whether it's a marriage or an affair (Lucas has to skirt around this issue considering it's kids friendly).

But, even though she says no, she's still concerned about him and not ready to part when he goes on Tatooine. Since the deleted scenes establish her somewhat motherly affection much better than the theatrical version, it's more understandable that she doesn't see him as some kind of a psycho after his confession but, rather, a suffering soul. Besides, she knew Shmi and her death is a tragedy to her. Anakin didn't plan to kill the Tuskens, he knows it was wrong and she probably believes he won't do it again and maybe she'll be the one who will help him to heal since his mother is dead. It might be a misguided notion, but it's a lot more believable with those deleted scenes. Padme is not perfect and has flaws like all of us especially when strong emotions cloud our judgment.

 

Jake Lloyd's portrayal perfect in my book.

MJ

 

I think it's conveyed fairly well. Depends what googles you put on.

The primary conceit -- such as I see it -- is one of "stolen moments". A lot of material is elided. Lucas gives a viewer an impressionistic snapshot of their time together.

I like that, but like any approach, it has its fans and its detractors.

Well, I do like how deleted scenes can plump up a beloved movie.

I can also appreciate the relative leanness of a finished movie, however.

Yes. It's also a good reminder that Anakin is in turmoil and no longer quite the boy that Padme once knew. His time with the Jedi has not brought clemency, but stolen his ability to sleep easily and twisted his precocious dreams into nightmares that create ruptures in his thoughts and jangle his weary soul.

That said, I think it is fairly evident, in the finished film, that Padme cares a great deal for Anakin, despite their many years apart. The boy from Tatooine, who selflessly entered and won a podrace, had the fortitude to depart his mother despite leaving her a slave, still had time and emotional energy to gift Padme with a wooden pendant, was spurned by an indifferent Jedi Order despite his talented and giving nature, and helped the Gungans and the Naboo win the day, obviously left a big impression.

Early on in their big "romance picture", Padme blushes at an awkward compliment of Anakin's, diplomatically defuses a tense argument between him and Obi-Wan, and shows Anakin sympathy the following day after he blows off steam concerning his mentorship under Obi-Wan, gently warning him, "don't try to grow up too fast". Later, we are able to infer that Padme has witnessed Anakin suffering a nightmare, or they have at least talked about it, since she says to him on Naboo, during the meditation scene, "You had another nightmare last night."

Not to mention Padme's concerned curiosity on the refugee ship. Again, the nightmare may be missing, but she does say to Anakin, "It must be difficult having sworn your life to the Jedi", expressing tender affection in some of her glances, suggesting something beyond mere polite interest in her young Jedi companion.

Okay. Two claims.

i) I don't see why the meeting with the Queen should be ditched. It imparts some useful information about the current state of play; and we get a few insights into the way Anakin and Padme comport themselves around each other in the presence of higher authority. Yes, an awkward moment emerges, but Lucas contrasts that later on, when Anakin says to Padme on Geonosis, just after they land, "Don't worry, I've given up trying to argue with you." Here, with Padme's casual insult -- "Oh, Anakin's not a Jedi, yet. He's still a padawan learner" -- there is obviously an echo with Vader's line to Luke in the carbon freeze chamber, but the stakes are also raised for Anakin to prove himself to Padme. And Padme herself comes off as slightly self-righteous here. She has to learn to take back some of her curt dismissiveness later on (consider how her remark wouldn't be very helpful to Anakin after his confession in the Lars garage). I'll add that I like the irony that Sio Bibble, one of Padme's former advisers, calls Anakin "Master Jedi" -- the only adult in the saga that ever does.

ii) Padme's express desire to start a family is more interesting. I do wish Anakin and Padme had talked a little about their own plans and histories in AOTC. This is the "getting to know you" episode of the saga; and, I think, a big hit, in that regard. But there could still have been a few extra moments for the characters to let their guard down and share a bit more about themselves. Not a huge loss, but one of those things that could, perhaps, have sweetened things up a little.

Again, two claims:

i) I agree that they have good chemistry in that dinner scene; and Anakin's reaction to the interior of the house is probably my favourite facial expression of anyone in the entire film. And it does broaden the visual and emotional palette of the movie all the more. I like that second scene you mention, too. I am not sure the scenes are, strictly speaking, necessary for their courtship to pan out, but it might have been cool if Lucas would have included them. Somehow, they are quite humanizing, and they are the missing half of the equation concerning Padme's funeral, where her family are there but we otherwise know nothing about them, having lost these sweet scenes to the digital wastebasket.

ii) I am surprised to hear you state that the other scenes aren't necessary; given the fact you conclude that these deleted scenes enable a viewer to better appreciate how Anakin and Padme are used to "putting duty over their desires". I agree: this is an essential component of their characters. But one of the scenes that expresses this best, in my opinion, is the scene between Anakin and Padme in Padme's bedroom. There we see Anakin's careful admiration for Padme as a committed and politically-engaged maternal figure, and we learn something about the depth to which Padme holds onto sadness, essentially blaming herself (implicitly) for failing to save the lives of people she felt entrusted to (mirrored by Anakin's peripatetic loss of his mother on Tatooine). It's a very personal failure to her; and one is invited to understand Padme's sudden pledge to Anakin in the execution cart in a deeper light. Alas, the film is only so long, and before you can include a more intimate bedroom scene, you should really include the dinner scene, and then the length of the film would have begun to run away with itself. Clipped away, in larger part, I suspect, due to the Procrustean demands of the Star Wars serial genre format.

Well, a kiss might be a bit more compromising and intimate than a roll around in the grass (marginally!), but I like the way the film does it. Granted, both these scenes finish somewhat abruptly, leaving the pair in limbo, but there's something oddly amusing and even a little charming about it (though, in all honesty, I'm not sure that that was my initial view).

What's important, I think, is that Anakin steals a kiss (a literal "stolen moment") from Padme initially, even though she seems to be giving him the go-ahead. It shows a bit of immaturity on his part that he's still trying to shake (in his own words earlier in the movie, he is trying -- note the double meaning!). In the picnic scene, he seems to be learning, and even enjoying a more steady road to seduction; and, as is rather plain (plain -- geddit? here all week...), he is getting a better result from Padme, too.

The thing with Anakin is, and trying to avoid the double entendre, he can't keep it in for long. He's soon back to a more intensive and pressurizing way at the fireplace. But he has built a bridge to Padme's heart by then; despite her protestations. I sort of enjoy that push-pull dynamic of Anakin's courtship. I guess you can imagine that the first kiss was blamed on the flowers and Padme talking about a sensual time in her early life; new sensations for a sand-hating slave from Tatooine. Otherwise, how damn flustering, right?

Well, anyway, I like that Anakin is able to switch gears and adjust; even if he'd rather keep running that car into the red. But I think this oblique back-and-forth is harmful to suspension of disbelief -- for some. However, with the stunning settings, the beautiful costumes, the perfect music, and the intriguing intercutting with Obi-Wan's discovery of the clones, I find that AOTC offers a romantic story with unique appeal. Star Wars is meant to stir the heart and the mind; and AOTC certainly does that, in my opinion.

The fireplace scene is a one-off -- though, without wishing to completely throw myself into contradiction, it does have an echo with the "master" enduring his own temptation in a chamber-like setting, with Padme's choker replaced by a mysterious blue containment field, suspending the beam-occupant in literal mid-air. Very cool (hot?) scenes, in my opinion.

The fires of Mustafar, as you put it, clearly go all the way back to the first movie and Lucas' interview with "Rolling Stone" magazine that same year. They are also evoked in the droid foundry later in AOTC; and that sequence, with its multitude of droid parts and conspicuous bursts of steam, is anticipated, very abstractly, by Anakin and Padme's first scene in TPM (the counter area behind Anakin). Even the slightly worse-for-wear Dex's Diner somehow ties into the two of them.

But yes, potent symbolism and foreshadowing. You're right that the dinner scene is there one moment, with one tonality, and then the fireplace scene suddenly starts, abutting awkwardly against it. There's a clashing style. But the consistent thread is the room itself. We see the dining area in darkness, behind Anakin, after he gets up from the couch. I like that little touch. The fireplace scene as a whole has an intensity that is very unusual for Star Wars. I like how Anakin is both melodramatic yet strait-laced. And Natalie gives some pretty sharp bodily acting in that scene.

Before I forget, I would like to add that the fireplace scene artfully blends two taboo subjects together. Or archetypal energies as Freud or Jung might have said: Eros and Thanatos; or put the other way, death and desire. Nowhere else in the series are these remarkably powerful "gods" of the collective unconscious expressed so nakedly. To put it mildly, they are difficult subjects for humans to contend with head-on (as are most subjects in human affairs, it can probably be said).

It can really sound discordant to have characters articulating their feelings as Anakin does to Padme. And Padme is equally crimped: "If you follow your thoughts through to conclusion..." Those words (quite deliberately I think) sound like some half-recalled retort at an ethics debate; not necessarily Padme's true feelings. She just retreats into calcified rationalism. And that's the danger for her -- she has no true rebuttal to Anakin's morbid, animalistic advances. She has not dealt with this for real before. Out of the classroom, and very nearly (look where she's stood), into the fire. I have a great deal of admiration for this scene: the most achingly intimate (while still affectedly artificial) Star Wars has ever gotten.

You identify something quite significant here. The shifting nature of the landscapes of the film provide their own palette of meaning. The settings of the film are a third character that helps knit the slightly disparate qualities of Anakin and Padme together; we watch as they are slowly (or, I suppose, rather rapidly) drawn into the other's psychic web.

I think the deleted scenes do perform a function in the manner you have outlined, but not necessarily consistently; and more as a prosthesis -- a glib assist -- to what already exists. The theme of duty, for example, bubbles into dialogue in the opening scene, with Padme lamenting that she shouldn't have come back, only to have Captain Typho (even if he does have one eye) remind her that "Corde did her duty" and she needs to do hers (echoed, of course, in the argument between Obi-Wan and Anakin in the gunship after Padme's life becomes compromised).

It is actually quite possible to picture AOTC as Padme's movie. Note that the film starts and ends on her self-doubting, rueful glances. Does she learn anything about herself? Is she any wiser at the finish? Is there a net gain or a devastating loss? Padme seems to inadvertently enable so much of the movie's plot -- right through to the pivotal Clone Wars. Jar Jar's banishment for being "clumsy" seems to presage all this madness. There is a sense that these characters are floundering all the while (it is a tragedy, after all), and just chasing their own tail, while the forces of darkness gain greater and greater power. Perhaps one of the best "ring" devices is Anakin and Obi-Wan pursuing Zam in a speedy, open-top vehicle, in an urbanized environment, left-to-right, and catching up with her in the end, but failing to save her life. On Geonosis, a "desert" landscape, this reverses: they now pursue a stately gentleman in a side-exposed vehicle, right-to-left. And he gets away. Another arm is removed: this time, it is the hunter, not the hunted, who loses it. What is learned here?

Well, see, as you began by affirming, you can rationalize what's going on. Deleted scenes seem superfluous at the close!

The motherly affection traces back to TPM. Speaking on Qui-Gon's behalf at the dinner table? Calling him reckless in the podrace arena? Placing cloth on Anakin to hold in Anakin's faltering warmth as he leaves Tatooine behind for the unknown? The latter moment really says something about Padme. She tries to seek her own warmth through Anakin. For Padme is also heading into "terra incognito" in the same moment; with many doubts and worries of her own.

Perhaps that also enables us to regard their union in AOTC from a different angle. The magnitude of the political calamity before her has horrified her; as much or more than the spiritual breakdown within Anakin. But there's a chance to repair both by unifying with the broken and attempting to right its course. And what's true of the individual, if Padme can refine her talents through the bond of marriage, might also be true of the society. Padme likes to nurture.

I am not saying that Padme makes a "political" decision per se (though politics, to be clear, is pretty much all she has ever known). I think duty and desire do get a bit knotted up inside her, though; as they do with Anakin. Declaring her love for Anakin is a means of paradoxically trying to resolve those contradictions by embracing them. I like this about the story, I think.

Well, this, and so much more -- as is the case with this saga generally.

Thanks for giving me this moment.

 

No. It's a farce. It doesn't translate at all in this world, and it only serves as a shallow life-support system for an equally shallow Anakin.

 

Let's see how it ends.

ANAKIN
“LIAR! You're with him! You brought him here to kill me!”
<force chokes Padme>

PADME
“A-Anakin...”

ANAKIN
<drops her onto the ground, turns to Obi-Wan>
“You've turned her against me! You will not take her from me!!”

Yes, the greatest love story of all time.

 

Love is full of danger and darkness.

 

Except love -- ACTUAL love doesn't involve your spouse becoming increasingly and maniacally possessive to the point where he/she starts accusing you of things you didn't do and hurting you in the process.

 

How it ends is tragically. Even before the relationship started, Anakin was struggling with his darker self. He couldn't lose Padme, and being unwilling to lose someone because of how important they are to you is selfish but also very human. He became more and more desperate and that plus the ruthless and rather vicious side of his personality combined until he went completely over the edge in achieving his goals. His own choices and actions had left him unhinged by the time they meet on Mustafar. He lost sight of his goal of saving her in the high of the power.

Padme - despite her honest love and support - became the deciding factor in his downfall. Anakin - despite his intentions and devotions - destroyed her.

That's the biggest romantic tragedy for me, something closer to Greek tragedies where the thing that ruins them is their own flaws and moral failings. Padme knew from the beginning that the choices they'd make would ultimately destroy them, and it did. Despite that, even when she gave up hope for herself (lost the will to live) she never gave up hope for him (there's good in him.) Years later, he gives his life to save one of the products of their love.

Is it a love to emulate or hope for? No. I don't agree with the idea that it's not love though. Even if love is/becomes twisted, dysfunctional, or tragically wrong, I don't think that invalidates the actual feeling at the center of it.

 

It's certainly not the greatest in terms of 'purest and most romantic' because frankly it was neither of those things nor was it meant to be. The whole point was that all the things Anakin did and choices he made were to save Padme. And like mute90 pointed out, Padme never totally gave up hope for Anakin. As a romance it's twisted, dark and destructive... but it's one hell of a great tragedy. And the fact that there really WAS love at the heart of it only adds to that.

(The same way Romeo and Juliette is in fact a tragedy not a romance at all, strictly speaking. #ShakespeareFactoid)