ST Can Kylo Ren Be Redeemed?

Kylo is a very conflicted and complex person. Him and Rey already have some sort of relationship. He saw she was lonely. He took off his mask for her. He recognizes her power. He wants to train her. He is going to be consumed with Rey in Episode 8 the same way Darth Vader was consumed with Luke in Episode 5. Kylo and Rey are basically at the center of the plot.

Besides, Snoke has been manipulating him for some time. Both Han and Leia are right and Kylo will come to see this before the end. I'm not so sure Kylo will die though, it would make Han's death rather meaningless. I can see Leia getting her son back, even if he killed Han she would forgive him, as long as he came back to the light side of the force.

 

Wouldn't it be nice to see him to go to his grave corrupted by the dark side and engulfed by his obsession for power? I have a strong feeling that isn't going to happen.

If Anakin can be redeemed after mass slaughter and years of tyranny, then surely Kylo has a chance? Others have pointed out the fact that Kylo killed his father. Anakin was ready to kill his pseudo father/brother in Obi-Wan and in fact he ended up doing so in Episode IV. I will say that Anakin's decisions in Episode III make much more sense once you have seen the clone wars series. I will not spoil anything but Star Wars fans should really give the series a chance (it gets better and better, so don't drop it during season 1!).

We also do not know the full story of Kylo yet and can't really fully evaluate his decisions.

Ultimately, Star Wars has kids in mind and redemption is a central theme. Snoke and the emperor may be evil to the core, however Vader and Kylo have shades of grey.

 

He killed his father in cold blood, and for my part, I don't see how he can be redeemed. The filmmakers make choose to redeem him, but it will always ring false to me when I remember how he killed Han Solo.
Darth Vader killed Obi-Wan and Jedi younglings and did some pretty horrible things as well...I know he was redeemed, and perhaps it was easier to swallow because he didn't kill anyone that I really cared about (on top of which, Obi-Wan sacrificed himself for Luke's sake--you could argue that Han did the same for Kylo Ren, but it still doesn't feel the same).
So, for me, I vote no.

 

Here's the thing though, if Ben Solo isn't redeemed then that rings false too. It means that the Dark won. That evil can manipulate light and that once a person is pulled down to the Dark there's no hope of being pulled back. This is a monomyth story and because of that, you need to have characters that find revelations. For Ben it will be that he's been played, very much like Kyp Durron was played. Heck speaking of, said famous Jedi actually, without the help of the Dark side, blew up a planet because he was pissed off at someone from there. Yet he was redeemed and became a very top ranked jedi who also was sort of like Mace Windu with the idea of skirting the dark and the light side.

Han, I think, had a clue what was going on. We don't know for sure if he's Dead Dead, as Harrison is supposed to show up in the other movies somehow. Also remember that, according to Obi-wan, I will become more powerful. I think, even though Han's physical form is gone, his memory and spirit will keep coming back to Ben and keep talking to him, and getting him to realize what's going on. Because of that, I think that Ben will turn over by the end of episode eight or maybe into nine.

Ben is a mix of Snape, Mordred and Draco. He has the issues of Draco not being all evil, but wanting to be like Granddad, he has Mordred's issue with family and feeling under powered, and then there's the Snape factor that maybe he's been plotting to destroy the FO from the inside. Honestly I will be pretty disappointed if they just kill him off because what does that then say about the Solos? That they are easy to manipulate and weak?

 

Showing his face and real voice had the opposite effect of removing his badassery. What it did was making him three-dimensional instead of a cartoon character like Vader was in the first film. I like his face and real voice much more than the mask version. Seeing as he loses the mask on the collapsing planet, I would prefer if he was a villain (or possibly as a tragic love interest where Rey's mission might become trying to redeem him) with a face for the continuing films.

What that interrogation scene did to Rey was make it harder for her to hate the faceless monster. Instead, it was a boyish young man. Adam Driver's voice is a beautiful baritone. What threw off the fanboys who just wanted a cool-looking badass with no character (see Boba Fett syndrome) is that he ended up a twisted sort of gentleman towards Rey. It's reminiscent of the trope of the monster who wants to be loved.

Humanizing him that way brought forth a very different trope from Darth Vader continuing the false image of him as a robotic, faceless monster that unravels much later in the story.

Ben Solo/Kylo Ren became the Phantom Erik being unmasked by Christine Daaé after he has abducted her, physically deformed Quasimodo and psychologically deformed Claude Frollo both with Esmeralda while she is after Phoebus, Frankenstein's monster wanting a Bride who could love him back but only gets her shrieking at him, etc...

You might have picked up on the fact that Kylo seems obsessive and lustful towards Rey. In his twisted mind, he becomes a gentleman during the interrogation. He wanted her to see him as a young man. He's the monster carrying off someone he seems intensely intrigued by bridal-style to his lair (lusting for her raw power is part of it), leaning in close to her face and staring into her eyes with a strong invasion of personal space when he talks to her or fights her, etc... The monster in love trope might be what we’re getting here.

There’s a case to be made that the name “Solo” might not be used as a mere family name for him; that because of his choices, he’s now alone and there is a lack of anyone he considers worthy of himself because he is one of those rare beings who has the Force. “It’s only us now.” He seems to equate Force sensitivity with worth and Rey has the mother lode. There’s also a hint of this in the fact that most of his animosity is reserved for his “disappointing” father, who is the Forceless Muggle of the original trio (and formerly the cynic who didn’t believe in the Force). Perhaps he feels diluted by him, blaming him that he might not reach the powers of Anakin Skywalker.

When she fights him, he seems in awe of her for her power, rather than actually wanting to defeat her. He was more interested in turning her to the Dark Side and making her see things his way than he ever was in fighting her to the death. He was toying with her. This is a guy who is easily angered and lashes out furiously throughout the film, yet he is remarkably not lashing out at Rey during the fight even when she slashes his face. That's why he humanized the faceless monster in that scene. He also made it harder for her to hate him because she had to look into his eyes.

And yet, this is still a person who just killed his father, likewise unmasked. He killed his father wearing the face of that man's son, not as a faceless monster. Another reason it was important to have him as a figure who is unmasked during both of these actions.

The actual reason that Angelus was put into bumpy game face when he snapped Jenny Calendar's neck on Buffy the Vampire Slayer was because they wanted it so that people wouldn't be disturbed by Buffy kissing Angel (with his soul returned) once again. There was discussion on whether they should do it more daringly with the human face of Angel. The prosthetics acted as something of a mask separating the murderous monster from the good guy character.

By taking off the mask when he killed Han, it was Ben Solo doing the action, not Kylo Ren. Pretty daring stuff considering there's probably a redemption story or an attempt by other characters to save him.

 

I see it's pretty much 50/50 as to whether he can be redeemed or not... That reflects my opinion on this, to be honest.

 

I think the history of Star Wars proves that everyone can be redeemable- I don't know necessarily they should go down the route. Would Anakin have been redeemed if he killed Luke? No, probably not. But arguably, after the PT, you could argue Obi Wan was just as much his family as Luke was. There was a difference between Kylo Ren and Ben Solo, I think. And Ben Solo killed Han, not Kylo. I feel this is a huge point.

I personally don't think he can be redeemed. And I'm entirely okay with that as it gives us a very, very central villain.

 

I voted no. I don't see how he can.
Like it's been said before, Kylo struck down his own father in cold blood. I know he's Han and Leia's son, but I don't see how he can come back from something like that..even with his Mother's forgiveness.
Anakin killed younglings (I've heard it 5 million times, so I think the proverbial horse has been flogged enough, thank you) and was responsible for the death of Padme and Kenobi, from a certain point of view. He turned back and died soon after. If they choose to do that with Kylo/Ben, then that's the only way it might happen.

 

If Anakin could be redeemed, then Kylo can too.

 

besides obi wan was holding a light saber,and cripped him last time vader saw him. For me thats not the same as old han going for a hug

As nasty as he was. In his deepest anger and rage Anakin never killed his loved ones. Thats exactly why he turned. To stop people from daying... Kylos reasons seams to be more in dookus line, being from a powerful and known family, and wanting more that what a jedi can be.

Remember that Anakin already turned, asks the emperor "but what about obi wan?" He still cares for him.

At the edge of mustafar, he obbeys kenobi letting padme go, realizing he was killing her in his rage.

Even so, he gives obi wan a chance to flee "dont make me destroy you". At the peak of his anger, he doesnt want to kill his mentor. Although he is sure he came here to kill him "you bring him to KILL me"

Its only when Kenobi pops out his lightsaber and said "Ill do what I must", that the fight starts


Every step anakin did in the dark side was for fear of losing people he love. Even the super evil 20 years corrupted vader cant kill his son, and finally gives his life from him.

Vaders all journey is about his love ones and fear/and anger to lose them. Nothing to do with Kylo

How this can be related in any way with rent who just kills his going for a hug dad?


If vader redemption arch is hard to swallow, rent would just be impossible.

 

I believe yes. And he'll stay alive.

From a cinema point of view, he's representing the Han Solo legacy now being his son, and hence cannot be killed off. Han died partially to allow Kylo to gain prominence over his role.

Story wise the character hasn't done anything worse than Vader or the emperor. Yes he slaughtered a few civilians and killed his father. But he's severely conflicted, irrational and misguided, unlike Vader who was always focused and decisive in achieving his aim no matter the cost. We don't know his true motivation yet to determine if he's too far gone.

He'll probably redeem himself or be redeemed in the final moments. But he'll end up in a terrible way and spend the rest of his days in solitude, reflecting back on his actions with regret.

 

It depends what you mean by "redemption".

The great philosophical question of Star Wars is: was Vader really redeemed? According to the mechanics of the Star Wars universe, it's an unambiguous yes: Anakin turns up with the other ghosts. But is that all it takes to redeem oneself, after massacring children and presiding over twenty years of tyranny? Killing a man you wanted to kill anyway, to save your own blood? I once read a post here that made a convincing argument that Anakin hasn't changed at all, he's still enslaved to his attachments, and Luke has simply replaced Padme as his number one attachment. He was once willing to betray everything he stood for to save Padme; now he's willing to do it to save Luke. It just so happens that saving Luke aligns with the goals of the good guys.

I think Ben will have a more ambiguous redemption. He'll die saving the heroes and/or bringing down the First Order. But he won't turn up as a ghost and we won't know if he ever found peace in the Force.

 

I suspect he'll turn to the light side by the next film and not the last one like Vader. Then Rey and Ben will have to defeat Snoke or whoever in the last one with Ben maybe dying.

If they both survive, then they'll restart the New Jedi Order for the next trilogy.

 

I think it's an interesting topic, personally one of the things I loved was him killing Han for that reason. In many respects, to the viewers at least, that makes him less redeemable than Vader. If you first watch the films in chronological order then I imagine Obi-Wan's death must come as a shock given how he was a central character in the PT. However, I, like most people watched them in release order and when I first watched ANH Ben's death had no way near as much impact as Han's as he was a new character to me. Plus, he comes back as a force ghost so it lessens the impact. Han can't come back as a force ghost so it was more final. In the OT we see Vader do some awful things but he doesn't kill one of the main characters that we've all become attached to so I imagine his 'redemption' is easier for the audience to swallow for that reason. However, it doesn't change the fact that he's a mass murderer.

I think that redemptions are difficult in the series for the above reason really. In Vader's case we see him do awful stuff (even more if you watch the PT) then suddenly one act means he's a Jedi again and can become a force ghost. I suppose he did some noble stuff in the Clone Wars but does it balance out with what he did afterwards? I imagine Kylo will end up being redeemed though as he's the obvious Vader mirror in this trilogy. He'll probably be the one that ends up killing Snoke a la Vader in ROTJ.

Ultimately I voted yes as we've seen it happen before so I imagine it will. I think if you asked the same question about Vader to someone after they'd watched ROTS who had yet to see the OT they would have answered no which shows the difficulty with redeeming characters who have committed atrocities.

 

padmes last words to obi wan are... theres still good in him, I sence it.

As a matter of facts, I wouldnt had asumed Vader would be so ****ing dumb not to realize palpatine has played with him to make him do what he did, killing padme included.

I guess he would had killed palpatine while his sleeps in a month, and rule the galaxy all alone

 

I voted no because Snoke is going to kill him before he is redeemed.

 

Agreed - there should be no hope for redemption from crimes as horrific as patricide, matricide or infanticide.

He's committed the first and as I'm fully expecting most if not all the original characters to have died by the end of this trilogy, it would never surprise me if, by way of illustrating Kylo's descent into full-blown evil, they had him kill Leia as well. Hell, I never thought I'd see a father murdered by his son in a Disney movie, so we can't rule anything out!

He needs to die, at the hands of Rey or Chewie - Chewie would be best as it would be the ultimate in revenge and it would repay his life debt to Han in full, if such a thing still exists in the new non-canon EU - but Rey is far more likely

 

"Here's the thing though, if Ben Solo isn't redeemed then that rings false too. It means that the Dark won. That evil can manipulate light and that once a person is pulled down to the Dark there's no hope of being pulled back."

Count Dooku.

"besides obi wan was holding a light saber,and cripped him last time vader saw him. For me thats not the same as old han going for a hug"

It was Padme who went after him to try to save him. Obi-Wan intervened when it was clear that wasn't going to happen. His mere appearance convinced Anakin that Padme had betrayed him.

"As nasty as he was. In his deepest anger and rage Anakin never killed his loved ones. Thats exactly why he turned. To stop people from daying."

And yet he caused the deaths he meant to prevent.

 

But who cares about Dooku? Sure he was cool in a sophisticated old man way, but he wasn't the only child of Princess Leia and Han Solo and possibly the Skywalker legacy.

 

I think this is exactly the question we are meant to be asking and the one set up by this movie. I'd love if after 4 movies about fathers its a mother's love that saves the day and it would beautifully connect to Shmi whose loss set Anakin down his path.

 

Another factor that might play into your individual view on the matter is, does Ben killing Han Solo automatically make him less "redeemable" BECAUSE it's Han Solo. For me personally, the answer is no because I don't really subscribe to the notion that a character is automatically more evil/less redeemable just because they killed a character that I happen to personally love. If we compared Ben killing Han to, say, Anakin slaughtered a bunch of really young children (no I'm NOT calling them "younglings" George) at the Jedi Temple, I don't really agree with the notion that Ben is automatically worse simply because it was Han that died. Child murder, no child MASS murder, is pretty hard to come back from.

As for Vader, I can FULLY understand the perspective that his "redemption" came as "too little, too late" that many people have. But, in the context of the narrative, Lucas and co were clearly telling the audience that he HAD been "redeemed."

 

Good point.

 

He's proof that you can, in fact, irredeemably corrupt someone, up to and including the ultimate betrayal by his master.
If being the only child of Han and Leia made a difference, Han Solo would still be with us.

 

Dooku was also corrupted MUCH later in life, AFTER having been a respected/admired Jedi for DECADES. So that's worse than some impressionable angry kid/teen who was corrupted by an ancient evil force. Dooku should have known better.

 

Sids is irredeemably evil too, I never said a character couldn't be. But they occupy a different space in the narrative than say Anakin or Kylo, and comparing them in this issue is useless.

On a meta level, I bet Harrison Ford stipulated that Han had to die to come back. But old man Han dying is not the same narratively speaking as killing off our brand new legacy villian.