ST Andy Serkis (Supreme Leader Snoke) in Episode VII

That was my take, too. He seems like a Sith or Sidious 2.0, so might as well make him be Plagueis. I guess Snoke's history well get hashed out in other forms of media and a little more in in episode 8.

 

I'm a little curious as to how much we'll learn about him. I'm worried that they might just keep his rise to power vague like Palpatine's was in the OT (before the PT's release). He was just this evil Emperor that had seduced Darth Vader and we knew next to nothing about him. We didn't know how he came to power, how long ago that was, etc.

So I don't know if they will try to go that kind of mystery route with Snoke and just give minimal information that he is the rule of the First Order that has been ruling for some unspecified amount of time and that turned Kylo Ren, with no further backstory.

And the reason that worries me is that it was one thing when there was only the OT, with no prequels. So everything before ANH was something of a question mark. But now the OT serves as the prequels to this new trilogy, and so when this Dark Side user comes out of nowhere and seizes the remnant of Palpatine's Empire, I would think he needs some kind of backstory. Who taught him to use the Force? Did he serve the Empire? Was he some guy that found Sith teachings in the Imperial databank and taught himself? The First Order itself seems pretty elusive, arming themselves in secret. While Snoke seems exceedingly elusive, even within the First Order. Yet Han and Leia know who he is.

His wookieepedia article (with a citation to the TFA novel) says

Thus he doesn't sound at all like a Sith in that he seems to want Kylo to have some degree of light side in him. I don't know to what end. Another cited quote is:

Which is again peculiar. The conflict in Vader is what cost Palpatine his life. But then again, Vader wanted to usurp Palpatine. In TFA, Kylo seems to admire and look up to Snoke. In the film itself, it seemed like Kylo wanted to rid himself of the light and Snoke didn't seem to discourage that at all.

The films trump novelizations in instances of contradiction, but the line "it is where you are from. What you are made of. The Dark Side—and the Light" was never spoken in the film, but looks like it could be the same line spoken by Snoke in the teaser trailer for the film, which might mean it was recorded for the film but ultimately cut.

I'm curious if Snoke's interest in the light side will crop up in Episode VIII.

 

Snoke's interest in the Light side is interesting, no doubt. I think this will be one of the factors that mark him out from the Sith. The visual dictionary gives a hint as to what this means, at least as far as his interest in Kylo goes. It's all about balance.

Remember that one of Lor San Tekka's first lines is "Without the Jedi, there can be no balance to the Force". The visual dictionary says that Kylo's dark and light side heritage make his use of the Force discordant. It seems that they are suggesting that the Skywalker line is inherently split, with equal potential for the Light and Dark sides. Snoke is seemingly aware of this, and uses it. He's fashioned Kylo into someone who lurches between the two sides of the Force, completely uncontrolled, and unbalanced. He's unable to resolve these two parts of himself.

I think this is key to Snoke's character. He represents imbalance, discord, chaos. In this respect, I think he is essentially the arch nemesis of the Skywalker line, and what they should represent.

 

I couldn't disagree more with the last portion of your post. It seems pretty clear he's trying to shift the balance in Kylo from light to dark. That's why he warns him about being seduced by the light side and tells him his encounter with Han Solo will be his greatest test.

 

On the surface, it does at first appear that this may be so, but notice ( in the novel, but also seemingly cut from the film ) that Snoke also tell Kylo that he values the Light side in him. He's not just pushing him toward the Dark, he's actively encouraging the conflict within him. Kylo is torn apart, but at least some of this is Snoke's doing.

“I have never had a student with such promise— before you.” Ren straightened. “It is your teachings that make me strong, Supreme Leader.” Snoke demurred. “It is far more than that. It is where you are from. What you are made of. The dark side— and the light. The finest sculptor cannot fashion a masterpiece from poor materials. He must have something pure, something strong, something unbreakable, with which to work. I have— you.”

 

Yeah I read all that too and found it funny, since the end result, at least to me, does look basically like a deformed old guy.

 

Ep 1-6 work on a linear story pattern, Ep1 and Ep7 break it.

Ep1 breaks it out of necessity since it's the first movie of the series, Ep 7 breaks it because they're trying to ape Ep4 but pretend the prequels didn't exist.

 

I wish they made Snoke female because:

1. It would distinguish Snoke from Sheev.
2. It would stop the Plagueis theories.

 

Throwing two other possibilities out there because it makes some sense.
1. Irek Ishmaren -name change would obviously happen, but maybe based upon the character that was a child to one of the Emperor's concubines, or could be a person who was working with Palpatine and was sort of a groupie to Palps.

2. This one is more likely then the first as they have a vary similar look. Gavar Khai, he's not directly a sith lord but he is a sort of knight to the lost tribe of the sith. While he was a newer character in the EU he also seems to have some similar personality to Snoke.

3. Weird one would be if some how Snoke is a evil version of Luke that got cloned years before and has since become the thing we see on screen.

 

I've felt all along that Snoke will wind up being Palps returned from the dead. Now that I've seen the film, I think this even more. Snoke seems to have gathered a few potential followers over the years since ROTJ- of which Kylo has proven the best; however, the way Snoke behaves towards Kylo makes me feel that Snoke is looking for something aside from an apprentice. I think Snoke is looking for a host, one that is strong enough in the Force to grant him unlimited power, but who is also torn apart enough inside to be weak enough for him to take over.
I've stated( and others ) on here before that the other films have a few details that could be exploited to show Palps was up to something hidden at the end of ROTJ:
1. Palps story to Anakin about Plagueis and his promise to Anakin right after he dubs him Darth Vader.
2. Palps meeting with his advisers on DSII where he gets angry that Vader has not remained on the command ship as instructed. Palps was always very laid back when talking with Vader before- even when Vader had slipped up.
3. Palps death being marked with shock-waves of blue light- when no other darkside or lightside users death has shown anything close.
4. Palps willingness to remain on DSII when he knew the rebel attack was coming.
5. Palps willingness to let Luke attempt to strike him down while he was unarmed.

There is information in new Canon novels stating that as time went on Palps became less interesting in running the Empire and more interested in working on his ultimate goal of reshaping reality himself. It also talks about how Anakin's blood-line originated in conjunction to Plagueis' success at cheating death. The novels also state that part of the process of obtaining this ultimate power is to use another Force user as "bait" for the Darkside, so the master can then absorb the benefits. I think that by the time we see Palps in ROTJ, he had already mastered this process enough to be confident that if he did die- it would not be his end. He would instead be re-born via the Darkside in the Beyond where the First Order eventually emerges from. That's why he begins sending Forces out there before ROTJ- so he can have the most loyal members of his Empire to start over with in his First Order. I think Palps intended for DSII to be destroyed all along, so that when he did return finally return to power after his death- all the galaxy would know he was invincible since neither the Jedi or the Rebels or an exploding deathstar could take him out.

Palps' actions with Vader and Luke on DSII were not about finding a new apprentace, but rather putting the finishing touches on his experiments to ensure that he would be reborn as powerful as possible. But, both Luke and Vader's decisions on DSII set Palps back. Palps was reborn, but not with the full power he intended. He is weak and twisted now. Just look at his face- this just screams flawed during creation- not twisted by the Darkside afterward.


I think this is why Kylo's mask appears the way it does. It's symbolic of what Palps looked like before he shed his old form. Even Kylo's robes seem to be made of the same material that Palps favored at the end of ROTJ. It's all subtle hints that Ben is being manipulated into becoming a new host for Palps. I think this is why Snoke wasn't super thrilled when he tells Hux that it is time to complete Kylo's training- because at that point Kylo had passed his test- but now there was a stronger potential host that had appeared out of nowhere( Rey ).

 

Thank you.

Sent from my LGMS345 using Tapatalk

 

"Snoke was active during the Clone Wars and had several apprentices before he became invested in the Skywalkerbloodline, believing General Leia Organa and Han Solo's son Ben, the grandson of Darth Vader, had the right balance of the dark and light sides of the Force in him.[3]
Leia was aware of the influence Snoke could have on her son, but did not inform Han, believing he would not understand and that as a Force-sensitive, it was her responsibility to keep Ben away from the dark side.[3] Eventually, Snoke turned Ben to the dark side, anointing him Kylo, master of the Knights of Ren, and ordered him to destroy Luke Skywalker's revived Jedi Order.[1]
Shortly before the Battle of Starkiller Base, Snoke summoned Kylo Ren to discuss an awakening in the Force, and he ordered Ren to kill his father to overcome his temptation by the light. He demanded that the prisoner Rey be brought before him when Kylo Ren proved unable to read her mind. When the destruction of Starkiller Base by the Resistance pilots was inevitable, Snoke ordered General Hux to bring Ren to him in order to complete his training.[1]"

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So that bolded part is coming from the novel I guess. If Snoke was active during the clone wars doing something that means he would be up in age a little bit now if a human life span species anyway.

I am starting to think if that info above is correct about the Clone Wars Snoke is some Jedi that was around during that time possibly and turned to the darkside sometime after Order 66 and stayed hidden mostly from the Emperor and Vader biding his time. He maybe knew Han Solo and them well because he might have even been manipulating them he was still a good Jedi on their side trying to help the rebellion but not really doing anything but biding his time. It wouldn't shock me if they use a confrontation with Vader after Order 66 to explain that injury of his also. Him being a former Jedi would explain that light and dark talk.

 

Is it just me or does Snoke look like a gray alien?

 

Now, that I think about it, I'd say, "sort of."

 

I definitely think he's just a shriveled up little dude who has either been deformed over time due to dark side exposure, Gollum-style or even Palpatine-style, or he's like a dark side byproduct of a dead but powerful Force user...like seeing the weird little, fetal Voldemort at the end of Harry Potter.

I don't understand how he's running the show. Palpatine rose to power being a senator from Naboo, then to chancellor, and eventually emperor. He methodically took control of an established system and step by step transformed it. He was a politician first...that's how he got his foot in the door. How did this creepy little weirdo get his foot in the door? How did he unite what was probably a lot of Tarkin-types that we were never introduced to who had all the sudden found themselves without leadership and would have been fighting each other for control of the vast Empire?

I suppose the answer is Hux. He did give quite a little speech there. Hux could be the puppet or mouthpiece, the charismatic leader figure or whatever, but people seem to know who Snoke is too. I don't know.

 

you all know that Snoke is really Yarael Poof don't you?

 

That sounds so much like something Plagueis could have said. I was a nonbeliever for Plagueis being in TFA in the months before the movie was released but with the similar soundtrack theme and now this dialogue it seems that Snoke could really be Plagueis!

 

Why arent there any pics of Snoke yet?

 

This silly Plagueis fan art predicted Snoke's look? Wut?

 

You put up a good argument, but I'd say his frustration about having to complete Kylo Ren's training isn't because he'd rather have Rey, but it's because he feels he now has to.

If Snoke is truly either Plagueis or Sidious (IF), then he understands the danger in training an apprentice, and the inherent threat they pose to you. When Rey bests Kylo Ren it signals to Snoke that A. his enforcer now has a rival and relying on his minimal training and raw power is no longer good enough, B. Because Resistance won and the base was crumbling, the return of Luke Skywalker is now unavoidable, C. (The biggest one) Luke Skywalker is a Jedi Master whose reservations on training Rey would be in regard to his failure with Kylo, and that because he does not fear her betrayal, he will fully train her to be a Jedi- meaning in order for Snoke to has to even the odds by fully training Kylo in the darkside.

 

Snoke seemed inspired by "The Kanamits" from the Twilight Zone.

 

Syfo-Dyas truly was the "No. There is another" of the prequel trilogy. The redheaded stepchild among the hinted subplots that goes nowhere because of changes in story direction prior to the third installment. As much as I hate on the prequels, the only one I truly have a problem with is Attack of the Clones. The whole movie is just so lazily put together, to the point where Syfo Dyas' got his name from a typo. The original plan for him to be revealed as Sidious using the name, and I kid you not, Sydo-Dyas ("Sydodyas"), but Lucas accidentally typed an F and ended up liking the name better.

 

Yup. They should have simply said that "Tyranus" ordered the clones.

I have wondered if it will be revealed that Sheev was possessed by Snoke.

 

Now THAT would be interesting...

Perhaps it would be revealed- if the "host body" theory is true, that Snoke has been the master all along? That Snoke was Palpatine, and Plagueis before him, and so on? And that the rule of two was a means of him testing and training a host up to a suitable level of power, which was proven upon the students success in killing him in his current form. It would make sense why he'd want someone like Anakin Skywalker who was in his words "to become more powerful than either *he or Master Yoda*", and then subsequently want Luke Skywalker to take his place. It would also explain why he called Darth Plagueis a legend (given that it was just one of many lives he's had), and would given Palpatine's smirk an even darker meaning than simply joy he found killing his master, but the irony Snoke saw in Palpatine being defeated by his own actions in what he believed to be his ultimate victory. It would also explain why he told his prophets of his "source of the darkside"- perhaps this was where he'd go upon rebirth in his weakened state if his efforts to turn Luke went south?

Not saying I believe any of this, but in my opinion it's a much more interesting theory than DP or Palpatine 2.0.

 

That would be pretty interesting. Maybe Snoke convinced Darth Ruin to break away from the Jedi and form the Sith, waited until the Sith inevitably knocked each other off, and then possessed the one survivor, "giving birth" to Darth Bane.

Another possibility is that the Sith were rivals of Snoke and as Palpatine Snoke infiltrated and destroyed his rival: Plagueis.