A/V THE FORCE AWAKENS - The Official Movie Discussion Thread

My abiding memory of the Dark Nest trilogy is Alema Rar getting progressively more disfigured and crippled throughout the three books.

And Jaina accidentally killing a sentient creature being played as comedy.

It's sick, sick stuff.

Edit: Oops, responding to older posts.

 

What about the rest of the senate?

 

Guys I think we've been unfair to Kylo Ren. Why isn't Vader choking out officers that may or not deserve it (Needa) not a tantrum? At least Ren only takes his anger out on inanimate objects.

 

I do remember Dark Nest had the beginning of the Jedi-as-antiheroes business. Just the sheer "I don't care" about Alema Rar's corruption.

 

And Leia was all "i'm going to brutally kick your *** , Alema, for trying to seduce my husband!!"

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I just want to say that something I noticed when I watched TFA a second time is that Maz's castle have a large statue of her, or one od her species on its roof, that was a fun detail

 

Actually this is an interesting point--as much as he idolizes Vader he's not a wanton murderer.

 

There is also an Abednedo senator and Cadovant senator in that scene, so two aliens plus the Chancellor.

There are undoubtedly plenty of alien senators in the New Republic Senate. Sure, I wish that JJ included a Mon Calamari, Twi-lek, and Duros senator, but that scene is not intended to represent the entire Galactic Senate, just a few members on a balcony.

--Adm. Nick

 

CooperTFN read your ETE article regarding Rey.

It's funny because that's . . . exactly what I wanted Kylo to be. Not Snoke's kid, but his creation. Explained the obsession with Vader (he's the "earlier model" / "elder brother") without inflicting a horrific LotF-class tragedy on the Skysolo clan. Alas.

Though I can't imagine them going down that route without also doing the "surprise, it's Plagueis" reveal. It'd fit too neatly to pass up.

And, while you're right that there would have been no more perfect time to reveal "Luke, I am your daughter" than the end of this film . . . I almost feel as though they're intentionally leaving themselves room to make stuff up on the fly. In the same way that Vader wasn't Luke's father when ANH was written.

So maybe they'll see your idea and run with it.

 

He does order several villagers killed. Perhaps when Phasma said "Sir, the villagers..." Kylo Ren thought, "What would Vader do? I know! He would execute the villagers!"

 

It just occurred to me that Kylo Ren's backstory is basically a tragic retelling of the Fresh Prince of Bel-Air.*

Absolutely, but they're "the enemy" and beside the point being made, here. RE: casually murdering his own men.

* I feel like this must have already come up, as it's too perfect.

 

It is a tantrum but Vader at that point in his life was less...expressive than he was before the lava bath. So most people don't recognize it for what it is.

 

Except Vader would have done it himself.

I didn't want to say as much in the thing since it was enough to swallow on its own, but yeah, it works veeeery easily with the Plagueis theory.

 

Now, this is a story all about how
My life got flipped-turned upside down
And I'd like to take a minute
Just sit right there
I'll tell you how I became legit as Lord Darth Vader's Heir.

In some snotty planet born and raised
At the Senate hall was where I spent most of my days
Chillin' out maxin' relaxin' all cool
And all shootin some grav-ball outside of the school
When a couple of knights who were up to no good
Started making trouble in my neighborhood
I got in one little chat and my mom got scared
She said 'You're movin' with your Uncle Luke out who knows somewhere.'

I begged and pleaded with her day after day
But she packed my suit case and sent me on my way
She gave me a kiss and then she gave me my ticket.
I put my Jedi Robes on and said, 'I might as well kick it'.

Force Powers?, yo where have I been?.
I can read minds better than Qui-Gon Jinn!.
Is this what the people of Jedi living like?
Hmmmmm this might be alright.

But wait I hear they're prissy, boring, all that
Is this the type of place that they just send this cool cat?
I don't think so
I'll see when I get there
I hope they're prepared for Lord Darth Vader's Heir

Well, one day a shuttle landed and who did came out
There was creepy old dude with my name written out
I ain't trying to get in trouble yet
I just got here
But, whatevs, I killed 'em all and like lightning, disappeared

I took off for a shuttle and when it came near
The license plate said PHASMA and I saw Chrome in the mirror
If anything I could say that this stuff was rare
But I thought 'Nah, forget it' - 'Hi, I'm Darth Vader's Heir!'

I pulled up to the Base about 7 or 8
And I yelled out to Phasma 'Yo cap, smell ya later'
I looked at my kingdom
I was finally there
To sit on my throne as Lord Darth Vader's Heir.

 

A weird Plagueis/Sidious/Vader dark hybrid of DOOM. Just watch when we learn that that blue light that enveloped Vader following Sidious' fall?

Also came upon Sidious at the moment he killed Plagueis. That Sidious actually had a Plagueis spirit!virus that he was infected with, and, well, passed on. Like a... plague. At the death of the former Master, the Apprentice literally received his knowledge and power in the form of his Dark Energy.


Historically, from what has been reinforced in the New Canon, A Dark Side Spirit can generally only cling onto an object with power, and essence of concentrated hate, and fear - not remain its own personality as a living autonomy, or a living person.

See the Sith Helmet in LANDO that was able to posess the Cat Twins with hate and murderous rage


, and also the spectre of DARTH BANE's fear and hate anchored to his tomb/remains.
.

Consider if Plagueis took this ability to the next level, but still wasn't completely successful. Sidious may have learned more from Mother Talzin, IE, her ability to control the Green Force Ichor to literally give some of herself to others to maintain life.


Could this be a reason for some of Sidious' desire to kidnap force babies? To practice transference?

Anyway, combine all this with the traditional failures of Sith Personality Retention, and consider a new success.

Sidious killed Hego Damask, but Darth Plagueis lived on in some vacuous form in Sidious. Sidious wants to do the same.

The Force does NOT like this.

Also consider:

Even lightside ghosts go through trial and error. According to Filoni, Yoda and Qui-Gon's teacher manifested in multiple aspects of their personality rather than a single unified being.


Hmm. A single being fractured into multiple aspects of their personality? And with possible Dark Influence Hitchhikers?


Basically, there's a lot of interesting material in the new canon about the nature of light/dark personality retention past death. I would be disappointed if the ST didn't further this exploration in some way. Above is just a fun brainstorm.

 

You know, reading the latest Kanan comic and I noticed this. Can't decide if it is a red herring or indicative of something else but:



Colonel Coburn Sear's burn scar on left side of face matches Snoke's almost exactly. His facial structure matches up enough that he could pass for a younger Snoke. The shape of the right ear matches up. His nose looks like Snoke's could have before being broken. Skin color is close, if not exact. His right eye is even the same color as Snoke's. He even wears a similar outfit.



Hmmm....

 

What's his deal?

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Kage Warrior and Separatist Colonel.

 

I'm hoping that Hosnian Prime is developed more in the pre-TFA literature. It's destruction will have that much more impact if we know more about the world. Kinda like how the more we saw of Alderaan, the more we lamented it's loss in ANH.

I just hope they make it somewhat unique. There are ALOT of populous, cosmopolitan Core Worlds with large cities. I'm hoping it has a unique history, which given it's selection as capital of the New Republic, must be something fairly significant. Maybe it was an early Core World supporter of the New Republic?

Hmm, Lost Stars refers to transmissions coming from the Hosnian System post-Jakku. So it was already a New Republic member as of 1 year post-Endor. Maybe it was a massive Holonet hub? A nexus of trade & communication?

--Adm. Nick

 

Coburn Sear?

Oh. Star Wars. Never change.

Interesting, regardless.

 

I can't entirely hate Dark Nest. It gave me Jedi Leia. And whichever one of you lot is about to start typing about how it wasn't done well or she did weird stuff or ewww Saba? Hush. Listen to me. Jedi Leia.

(Also, I actually still like Invincible. I mean, getting there was a trainwreck, but Invincible itself? Like if they'd just released Invincible, Episode IV style, and none of the books beforehand? I'd've probably have thought wow, man, that series must've been great. Invincible is lean and simple and gets to the point and is the book that comes closest to acknowledging the subtextual stagnation around Luke's character and the way the narrative of the later EU had begun collapsing under its own weight.)