A/V THE FORCE AWAKENS - The Official Movie Discussion Thread

That's not a plothole, though. She says there's a story, and leaves it unexplained. The biggest problem with the HuffPo article is that very few things on the list are actually plotholes so much as "things I didn't like" or "things that seemed farfetched."

 

Nah, the lightsaber is a plothole. Just because she verbally hand-waved it doesn't mean it isnt. It's one they won't fill on screen either. That's a comic story if I ever saw one. Just like Threepio's red arm, except actually crucial to the whole plot of the movie.

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But it's not a plot hole - she just has the lightsaber. A plot hole is a logical inconsistency, a place where the story isn't following its own rules.

 

The lightsaber is the very definition of a plothole. It doesn't follow logically what we saw on screen in Episode V, which left us to believe the thing was tumbling into the depths of Bespin along with Luke's hand. How Maz got it is an unanswered question that contradicts the early story AND is crucial to resolution of the plot.

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This feels like one of those "agree to disagree" things. It is indeed exactly like Threepio's arm--there are a million ways that could have happened, just like there are a million ways she could have ended up with the lightsaber, but they're not an integral part of the story, even if her having it is.

 

Which is the definition of the plot hole.

I'm saying, it's a plot hole but one I expect to get filled in a comic or short story.

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Should have had a flashback of Lobot fishing it out of the Cloud City sewers and giving it to Maz to pay off Lando's gambling debt.

 

The opening crawl tells us how.

 

I mean, it's worth noting that Rey's vision at one point actually had scenes that explained the saber's backstory, and they decided not to include them. So you at least have to acknowledge that they took the notion of explaining it seriously and decided against it--throwing around "plot hole" makes it sound like they were lazy or forgetful as opposed to just erring on the side of vagueness.

 

But using that definition you could ask how anybody gets anything?

How did Kylo get Vader's mask?
How did Poe get his X-Wing?
How did Maz get her castle?

Are those also plot holes?

 

The only thing that would make this "shallow analysis" is that you don't agree so by extension my analysis must be shallow right?

Luke accomplishing a feat three years after Obi-Wan began his formal training isn't at all comparable to Rey's situation in TFA.

In any case my point was that it felt like JJ Abrams left the door open to change how we view the Force more than the change being a certainty. He could have slammed that door shut but made a choice not to.

We can say "she did so good because Kylo was injured" or "she did so good because she clearly has some sort of Force amnesia and has Jedi training" - we just don't know for sure. Could be she is the incarnate of the Daughter from Mortis for all we know at this point. Based on TFA the potential exists that how we may have perceived the Force working has changed slightly. I never felt that way after any of the other films.

 

Poe's X-Wing is readily inferred from the opening crawl. Both X-Wings.

The others aren't plot holes because they are not crucial to the resolution of the plot. The lightsaber is. That's the difference between "unanswered question" and "plot hole."

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Well, we see how Rey finds the lightsaber, I agree that is crucial to the plot.

But I would consider how Maz found it just an unanswered question.

 

The fact that Maz says that it's a story for another time takes it out of plot hole territory. It's an unanswered question, yes, but how she got the lightsaber is largely irrelevant to the rest of the story.

Plot Holes are those gaps in a story where things happen without a logical reason. For example, in The Lost World, a T-Rex manages to kill everyone on the ship it's on, including those inside the cabin of the ship, and then lock itself back up in its cage before the ship crashes into the harbor. Not only is it literally impossible for this to happen there isn't even an attempt to address it or explain it. It's simply there. That's a plot hole, and how it's different from simply an unanswered question.

 

I just really hope finding the lightsaber has nothing to do with those old rumors about the lightsaber and hand floating through space.

 

whats wrong with unaswered questions? not everything has to be answered in the first film

 

Sure, but do you really think this one is going to be addressed in VIII? Some things I'm okay, but this being so central to the plot of this film and following on our last sighting of the lightsaber is it falling into the depths of Cloud City warrants explanation. Not "that's a story for another time" i.e. "buy the comic/short story when it comes out."

This is literally the ONLY negative thing I've said about this film in this whole thread. It's the only thing in the entire Saga that warrants explanation, especially regarding this lightsaber. Imagine if you were watching 1-6 and Obi-Wan gave Luke the saber in 4, but you see it roll into the river of lava in 3. That's basically what this is.

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Honestly saying nothing at all would have been better than saying "that's a story for another time."

 

I would have had Maz say, "I bought it from an Ugnaught" or "Luke entrusted me with it."

 

Seriously. If it's as simple as "well, a maintenance tech found it in the trash on Cloud City, and it passed from hand to hand until Maz acquired it" that could have been said as briefly as "*cough* by the comic *cough*"

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And I don't think anyone's accusing you of bashing or being unfair; we just don't agree with you.

We've never seen the Force in balance before.

 

I think it's important to know how it gets from point A: falling down an deep chasm on Cloud City that we know also filters out to the depths of Bespin to point B: a trunk in Maz's basement 30+ years later to call out to a girl that's going to use it to get out of a trouble spot in the film's finale.

That's a wild difference from, for instance, that very same lightsaber travelling from Mustafar to Tatooine into our hero's hands 20 years later specifically because we see it recovered from Mustafar by Obi-Wan.

There's no good sense for it to be Anakin's lightsaber, at any rate. It would actually make more sense for it to be Luke's ROTJ lightsaber given what we see on screen. Maz seems familiar with Luke personally, it would require a lot less involved explanation for him to have left that blade in her care.

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