ST The Romantic Future of Kylo Ren and Rey

From a male's point of view, Kylo does too many horrible, monstrous things to inspire pity, to be sympathetic or to feel redeemable. He's a perpetrator, not a victim, and I feel that he needs to be stopped, not saved.

At the same time, he's not tough and fearsome enough to make an awesome villain. I mean, a great, awesome villain is like dragon, a whirwind, a wildfire, a storm or a volcano. It is something bad you want to stop, but it is something big and terrible that inspires awe. You want to kill the dragon, you want to kill Dracula and Dr. Doom and Darth Vader, but they are that terrible thing that makes the story epic and great.

Kylo Ren isn't like that. He is too much like those stupid, crazy kids that grab a gun and shoot their teachers and school mates, too much like those idiots who go and join ISIS/Daesh after watching a few videos of beheadings. He is weak, vile and stupid, but at the same time he's a human being able to feel pain and sorrow. You can make a good story out of that, a sad story, but you can't be in awe of him. When Rey beats him it doesn't look like she's slaying a dragon, he looks like that schoolyard bully who accidentally picks the wrong target and is beaten by somebody able to fight back.

I guess it's different for women. I think at least some of them see that damaged, sad young man and want to hug him and console and fix him, regardless of the horrible, vile things he has done.

 

Oh wow this is the first time I read it wasnt? It may be something that happens in the future? That gives some credence to Rylo saving Rey from an attcker (the guy he's stabbing in the back).

 

ITA he does not inspire AWE .... this could be weakness in the writing or weakness that is deliberate.

 

I wonder who's the attacker though :/

 

I wonder where people get the impression women are in "awe" of him?

 

Or maybe because Ren is not the REAL big bad of this series, or as I suspect there is a BIG BIG AWESOME bad coming.....

 

I haven't said that women are "in awe" of him. I said that women are able to like him. There is a big difference between both things.

 

Yeah! That's exactly what I just told myself ^^

 

Paging Benicio Del Toro...I suspect he may be "the man behind the curtain". '

 

Regarding the attacker, I know that the actor who portrayed him was firstly credited as "Clan Leader" & then as a "Knight of Ren".
Why did we see this man in particular? Could he be related to Rey? Why did he try to kill her?

 

I have the feeling Kylo has been waiting for Vader's lightsaber like for ages, as if he believed the lightsaber was destined to him to accomplish what he believes was Vader's mission and when he sees the lightsaber isn't going to him but to Rey, he's so startled..."it's you" would rather mean "it's not me..." , well, that if my theory is right.

It's weird but Kylo acts like he ignores that Vader died killing Palpatine to save his son Luke, therefore he gave up on the Dark side...

 

hmmm, maybe Benicio will play a bounty hunter or something, and Kylo will hire him to bring him Rey.......

 

Opss and I also think Snoke's voice told Rey to kill Kylo in the novel because he knows his pupil is gonna have his mind ****-ed up after discovering that Rey is the chosen "one" and Snoke also knows Rey is gonna become stronger than Kylo will ever be in the Dark side. Besides Rey, by killing Kylo, would have unconsciously stepped towards the darkness...

 

sorry, double post

 

oops

 

Probably! (I haven't read the novel yet) | Do you think Snoke may know who she is?

 

Snoke told Kylo to bring him the girl....those are pretty clear instructions.

 

Yes because that's what he said to him but you have no idea of what he may intend to do later. We don't know his little schemes.

 

Well I think he's been generally liked by both sexes. He's a very interesting character but I wasn't exactly cheering him on when he killed Han. He's messed up.

Also I was reading some of this article yesterday and I think it's really relevant to our discussions on who deserves redemption or not. We're all using vague, philosophical points for the lack of data lol, but I found this enlightening. Full article is here: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/24/o...ence-a-murderer-or-a-cooperative-witness.html

It's about a male judge who regrets being too hard on a criminal. Here's are excerpts:

He was the enforcer for a brutal gang of drug dealers in Bridgeport, Conn., known as the Terminators, and had sold heroin, assaulted rival dealers and murdered a potential witness. But after a falling-out with the head of the gang, he turned over a stash house to the police and fled the state. When captured in 2001, he immediately confessed to the murder and later testified as a star witness for the prosecution.
Thus arose my problem: He had committed horrible crimes, but he also seemed to be making an unusually sincere effort to atone for them. So which man was I sentencing? The murderer or the remorseful cooperator?
I gave a speech encouraging the defendant to make the most of his time in prison. He promised to work hard and ready himself to lead a productive life after his release. But nearly everyone I sentence says something similar.
In the years that followed, I often wondered whether his remorse was strong enough to overcome his past.
That the warden felt no need to post a guard was my first clue that he had changed for the better. He was working in his first real job at the prison industries factory and had been promoted to supervisor. He showed me recommendations from prison employees for good jobs on the outside. He brought a folder full of certificates he had earned for attending classes. He talked lovingly about his girlfriend and daughter, with whom he planned to live as a family after his release.
The meeting made me proud of his accomplishments, but sad that I had not been more confident in him. He still had several years left on his sentence, but it was clear that he had served enough time.
Two things I liked: The judge admits that this one person had two sides of him, who were different people, yet he is the same person? So who do we judge? And second, the criminal knew he had to pay for his crimes. That was part of his redemption. He knew he had to be held accountable.


Also, I really strongly encourage everyone to listen to his NPR streaming, its like 5 minutes and very very enlightening. It's about murderers who have changed for the better.
http://www.npr.org/2012/07/07/156215751/after-murder-learning-to-live-after-youve-killed

"What is redemption? What does redemption look like? Redemption is being given another chance. Trying to recapture who you really are."

 

I also noticed the relief on his face and in his voice when he said "Thank You." after murdering his own father. He can be as emotional and conflicted as he likes but if he still choose to do wrong as he clearly does throughout
the film he get's no sympathy from me. Especially when he is consciously trying to do wrong just to stop the conflict.

Since you admit you have nothing to base that assertion on I won't bother to address this comment.

First, neither Kylo Ren or his idol Vader were into making big speeches or pageantry so him avoiding that kind of display as a matter of course makes sense. Secondly, he doesn't like Hux, the two don't get along so there's no real reason to stand at his side. Thirdly when he did have a chance to speak up against the weapon he did not.

So there is nothing in film to indicated he is against it.

Just as the interpretations you've put forward are your extrapolations.

 

People make different connections with Star Wars. Some are more into the action adventure/thriller aspect, others love the spiritual jedi stuff with all the emotional stuff, many more so both. Thankfully, Lucas and Abhrams and I'm guessing Rian Johnson and the other one after that, think more in terms of the latter. No matter how many people complain about the technicalities of the action aspects or how Kylo Ren is whiny, ultimately, the directors and writers will/should write something that continues with discussion on the elements of the human condition/psyche. I just hope whatever they write, they focus a lot on that, because when you think about it, the OT didn't go that far into it. Luke goes from saying "Nooo!!" when learning Vader was his father to then wanting to redeem him. I would have liked to see his thinking behind that. Also we didn't get any sense of Vader changing at all. With these movies I think, they have a chance to really show the transition thinking.

I was reading somewhere that it was Lawrence Kasden's idea to make Finn an ex-stromtrooper. The others were thinking pirate etc, but he was like "Think big!" I mean I would think, if you are thinking big, you're not envisioning just two Skywalkers battling it out with the bad guy just dying and everything is happy and golden afterward. Doesn't make sense from a writer's perspective.

 

....if he wanted the girl dead, the most likely action would be to tell Kylo to kill her. However since she clearly was able to resist his most powerful agent, he orders Kylo to bring her to him. That's pretty clear.

 

Again you don't know what might happen in the upcoming Episodes, he might try to test them both too see which one is definitely worth choosing. (even if Snoke wanted Rey to kill him during the final lightsaber battle) | Kylo will undoubtedly develop his skills.

 

I know it's 'canon-ness' in comparison to the film is debatable, but the novelisation seems to put a slightly different spin on Snoke's request in that he accuses Kylo of 'compassion' for her before demanding she be brought to him with the inference that he might use her to punish Kylo, not because he himself wants to recruit her.

Which also puts a different spin on Kylo's offer to 'teach her' if he understands that's NOT Snoke's intention here...