ST The Romantic Future of Kylo Ren and Rey

I don't know if it could go the other way, but even before I saw this thread and all the classic movie evidence, I thought that Kylo can't help but have feelings for her. I think that shot shows it in his face. He's shocked and awed. She just wants to beat him. That's why she wins. But eventually, I think something in episode VIII will awaken something in her as well. But it has all the trappings of a doomed romance. Wow, Romeo and Juliet - could Kylo and Rey both die in episode IX? Leaving Luke and Finn in charge of the new Jedi order?

 

11-4D

As someone who's seen too many other mainstream movies that follow the same tired gender tropes over and over, this gender flipping may not be romantic to some but I personally find it sexy as hell and I'm not even a diehard reylo shipper.

 

And this is why there is NO point in debating, Movies are visual storytelling wrapped in mythological symbolism. If all you ever see of any movie that you have ever watched is the surface one dimensional tale, you have NO IDEA what you have been missing. I am truly sorry. Me I will proceed on enjoying the multi layered fairy tale that TFA actually is.

 

You're not answering my question. And you're assuming things.

 

Yeah, he's shocked... And a little bit turned on! Look at him twirling his lightsaber there!

At this point, we've just seen how viciously he reacted to Finn handling the legacy lightsaber, but there's none of that here. Kylo is shocked, awed, impressed. He fights defensively and to disarm her, offers to show her the ways of the force. Romantic interest is a stretch, as he probably doesn't fully understand what he's feeling, but the contrast with what just went down with Finn is similar to how they portrayed the Poe and Rey contrast in the interrogation scenes. Kylo thinks Rey is special, that much is clear, and what we're speculating on is the plot potential from here on in.

 

Just curious, before I answer. Have you read the whole thread?

 

spacebaby45678

Also thanks for your compliments for my Saving Princess Ben Solo meta.

 

I really doubt it. A doomed love story goes against the optimistic, idealistic family-friendly themes that Star Wars has always pushed. It's counterproductive. It crosses the line. That kind of plotline can work with single-installment films, but not long-running trilogies meant to be enjoyed by kids and adults alike. Even casual viewers would feel incredibly tricked and misled if the writers went and turned a family-friendly entertainment outlet into a doomed love story. It tarnishes all characters involved. No, I'll be shocked if we don't get a happy ending. Even the prequel trilogy had a happy ending in a lot of ways, because the audience knew what was coming next: Anakin's redemption in the Original Trilogy.

 

I strongly doubt anyone read all 575 pages.

 

I wouldn't term myself an anti - reylo but my initial response to this would be to figure out the type of critique you are using, which I will presume is Freudian/Psychoanalytic given the discussion of a phallus-male and bleeding-female duality. Second, I would ask if this same level of "close reading" was applied to the entire film and not just chosen snippets. Thirdly, I would make sure to apply an entire psychoanalytic theory to it and not just Freud's phallocentric system.

 

I'm not even prescribed to romantic Reylo and I feel bad for those who didn't see all the symbolism and foreshadowing intertwined in Rey and Ren's final fight scene. It's a cinematic masterpiece that people will be analyzing for years to come. Movies are an art form. One cannot simply examine the surface, there's a whole other world underneath. I think that's the big difference between what we're all discussing and what the antis are debating. We're looking at this movie as a work of art designed by competent writers who had artistic intentions, not your average Hollywood blockbuster.

 

I don't see romance either here, it's just a memorable scene to watch.
Neverthless, if by the end of IX their relationship turns into romance, this scene will become epic.

 

I'm not exactly against it, but I doubt Disney would approve of having the main character getting together with a mass murderer

 

All of the answers to your questions are already there, over and over again. The majority of the reylo fans reason for shipping have already been answered numerous times. Just click any where within those 575 pages.

 

I would describe the entire final fight between Rey and Ren as wildly intimate, but proposing controversial — and dated — psychology is taking the interpretation a little far. The symbolism is there if you want to look at it I guess. I'm just not a big Freud fan in general so maybe that's clouding my judgment. I rest my case, the scene is very intimate, it contains a lot of potential foreshadowing for the Force Bond, it positions our two characters to develop alongside each other in the grander narrative, but the "sexual" psychological analysis is going a little overboard.

 

A reading of TFA using critical theory is an interesting exercise but will reveal nothing of the writer's intent, which is the point of speculating on the direction of the trilogy. Critical theory is a useful tool to discover how cultural remnants are rendered in works of art and production, not story implications; otherwise, all routes, the sensible and the not, are equally valid.

 

I'm applying my knowledge of storytelling to the piece of the puzzle we have, and based on my interpretation, I'm confident about where we're headed. I've just always had this little knack for prediction, and it's never led me astray. I've been a lover of epic entertainment of this caliber since childhood. But overall, yes, you're right. We could all be wrong. A prediction involving Rey and Luke falling in love and having Force-Babies is just as valid as one that takes into account narrative details, artistic devices, genre and logic, at least in a manner of speaking.

 

I wouln't argue that point. The most I hope for in the next two movies is a non-death redemption arc for Ben Solo, helped along by a profound connection with Rey. Until/if we get Ben Solo back, a Rey/Ren relationship would not be my choice. Reylo is the name we're stuck with after TFA; that's the names we have to use for now.

What would help acceptance?
* Rey and Kylo are not siblings or cousins
* The redemption of Ben Solo is a storyline going forward, not the downward spiral of Kylo Ren

I'd be thrilled to have any Rey/Ben relationship in other media (like a in between trilogies novel), or even just the possibility of it (if the events mentioned above happen).
#SaveBenSolo #ReyBen

 

Sorry I didn't realize it applied to gif's. I thought it was only about videos. Won't link again. Please don't ban me!

 

You don't have to be Freud or a Freud lover to see phallic symbolism in a young man's arrogant twirling of his sword. That said, it's all a matter of preference. I like Freud and you don't. I may choose to discuss imagery using Freudian concepts as a departing point, and you may not. What's overboard about that? To each their own.

Ryanpaulstewart, there are many, many theories and authors encompassed in psychoanalysis. Freud is the most well known of the analysts because he is the most controversial and the central figure. How do you propose applying "an entire psychoanalytic theory"? Whose? And if it's Freud, why not talk about the phallic references in TFA? There are certainly other aspects to consider, if one so chooses, and we have.

I think that Kylo Ren's killing of Han Solo is the ultimate failure to navigate the Oedipal Complex; he killed his father in an attempt to establish his own identity. One can argue that there are a lot of defense mechanisms employed by characters in TFA, including projection, displacement, and most interestingly to me reaction formation in the moment Rey yells "you're a monster" to Ren. We've already talked about Kylo Ren from the perspective of Erik Erikson's psychosocial development model, where Kylo appears to be struggling with Identity vs Role Confusion. I personally love Kohutz's ideas about narcissism, and I think a lot of those concepts apply to Kylo Ren, particularly where it pertains to ideas of self worth/inferiority and how that manifests as rage.

There's a lot to be said about this movie from various analytic angles. Why pick one? Even if we were analysts treating Kylo Ren as a patient, we would not subscribe to just ONE theory. That is not the current trend in analysis amongst the younger crowd, which from what I have seen is moving towards a more integrated, eclectic approach.

All of this to say: people are allowed to talk about the dynamics between characters and character arcs in this film from whatever angle interests them, even if it is not interesting to you all.

 

I agree that both of those things go a long way toward helping the idea not seem so out of left field. If Rey Skywalker continues to be hinted at in VIII, but her lineage isn't revealed (based on the quote from the IX director implying that the answer to that question has been left to him), that doesn't bode well for romantic Reylo any time soon. I could see IX ending with no actual romance, but Ren turned in a way that the audience accepts him as a good guy, and then like you say, something else could be explored in books or comics. It's weird that we know we are going to keep getting saga films after IX. Will there be a break spanning years? Will they just plow ahead with a new trilogy? I don't think Ridley, Driver and Boyega are prepared to spend the rest of their careers playing these rolls, lol. Well, maybe they are, I would, but actors often try to avoid the typecast.

 

All of your posts, guys, are why I love Reylo and Reylo communities (includes fans, antis and neutral observers) so much. I always learn something new from such deep thinking. I mean, we are now discussing various psychological theories. I must admit that I'm clueless so I used "phallocentric" one because that's the only one I know of. And on totally superficial level. But I'm glad it's leading to much more educated responses and think posts. I'm learning from all of you.

 

I appreciate that we can have divergent views on how to interpret a given scene and still be cordial and respectful... dare I say, friendly. I will also admit that, though I see the romantic paring of Kylo and Rey to be more sensational than rewarding - but mostly a dodgy thing of fanfic, the Kylo redemption arc is slowly growing on me as a concept and something I consider from time to time, especially if I take a long view of it.

But as a writer--honestly, I have no idea how I would do it. The entire thing makes me draw a blank. This entire trilogy is a tabula rasa to me.

If RJ does it, and it works, kudos to him.

 

Kylo Ren isn't the first Jedi we've seen twirl a lightsaber at an opponent, but this is the first time I've seen that described as evidence of sexual attraction. He could have done the exact same thing against a male opponent and nobody would have given it a second thought.

I didn't see romance when Kylo flipped the saber (obviously lol), but I did see Kylo being intrigued, in a sense, by her force abilities. He looked at Finn as an execution, but Rey is strong in the force, and when she got the saber, that was the second time she bested him in force abilities. That's huge for his ego, and it's clearly somethings he's not used to, but he seemed excited by the challenge. I can see people turning that sexual, but I saw the same kind of cockiness throughout the PT and TCW so it just seems like an arrogant force user thing. Plus there was the added element of Kylo's mission to bring Rey to Snoke. He was looking at her as a potential recruit, or ally.