Full Series General Krell.... How did he possibly ever become a Jedi Master?

IMO, the meaning of "Dark Side getting stronger" could have been stated better throughout TCW. We saw this a little in the Yoda arc, but I like the way the obviously non-canon Old Republic games explained the issue. When the Exile approaches Jedi Council member Atris, she explains that she fought in a war because she wanted to save lives... how could this be wrong?. Atris responds that the act of war itself -- the violence, the death, the negative emotions -- causes the Dark Side to grow in power, thereby negating much of the good of "fighting to save others." And neither could accept the other's point of view.

We see toward the end of TCW all of the Dark Side characters stronger and stronger each time we see them, and it's not just on their own merits. They are backed by an increasingly powerful ally. More Jedi struggle with the Dark Side, and a better explanation than that they are merely "disillusioned" by the war (though that could certainly be their entry point) is that the weaker Dark Side that they could resist before the war is no longer the Force they are facing. A Jedi feeling "disillusioned" in the wartime environment would be vulnerable... like being a person trying to stay positive in a room full of negative people. It's hard. It would have been interesting to see a Jedi like Krell or Barriss struggling with trying to stay "light," thinking they'd succeeded, only to be unable to do so later in time.

 

Who says they knew? Considering Krell was making platoons of clones fight each other, probable he just falsified his reports to the rest of the Jedi. "Oh, resistance in gamma quadrant was higher than expected, some accidental friendly fire..."

Besides that, given that we see Yoda and Anakin have great attachment and concern to their clones, it just highlights Krell as an *******. In any case, I'd go with it being a case of Krell perhaps just being a stern but otherwise reasonable Jedi prior to the vision he claims tipped him over to the dark side. Apparently he went into hopelessness for the light side's cause and wanted to join the winning team. Simple as that.

 

I agree
with your assessment of Krell but if the Jedi never questioned him on his casualty figures that just highlights how inept they must have been as generals. Rex and the other clones knew about Krells casualties being higher than anyone elses. Was there seriously no accountability for the Jedi generals?

 

If I had to guess, they were probably short on Jedi and felt they needed to keep him on the front lines despite his flaws...at least until Umbara where he went completely bonkers.

 

just a side observation -- but if you use real world examples -- I'd be hard pressed to find evidence that many dictators and murderers were bad from birth, or childhood, or whatever age they go bad.

So why can't Krell be another example of that -- given the circumstances he found himself in - he crapped out and went bad too. He obviously isn't the only one -- and so long as Darth Vader remains canon with a sweet little kid who cares nothing for himself and only thinks of helping others... well -- Krell is a layup in that regard

 

Off topic, but they should've sent Krell to Grievous. The fight would've been spectacular.

 

Well the Clones were doing the job they bred to do, the high casualties did not mean a whole lot to them especially when they were winning and very few Clones questioned command and broke rank and file since they were genetically engineered and programed for loyalty and less independent thought to begin with to make them more efficient and loyal killing machines. It took a long while before Rex would realize just what Krell was doing when it was apparent he was a traitor and murdering the soldiers under his command. We are not privy to when Krell fell, he had a reputation being tough and effective field commander and war time general - but there was no evidence he was a psychotic prior to Umbara. If anything the Jedi may of valued his command as one of the few Jedi able or capable enough to actually fighting and waging a war. For reasons unknown, the Jedi Council per Palpatine's wish, recalled Skywalker and Krell assumed command in the interim. And I think Filoni mentioned something that Krell was in league with the Sith and an agent.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/10...the-luminara-twist-in-rise-of-the-old-masters

Maybe you could compare Clone Troopers to Mamluks or Janissaries, but nothing like Clone Troopers exist in real life as they're a product grown, modified and mass produced in a lab for a single purpose. Clones are soldiers, and at one point in canon they had access to the Republic Service Organization. But calling them slaves is something political enemies would use, or some treacherous clone that deserted and grew more accustomed to civilian life or too independent and self serving. Some of the Jedi forming attachments and them to the Jedi, was actually a consequence of the war and the Dark Side. Its why Sidious used the whole biochip stuff for. TCW made the Clones and Jedi too cozy in the animated series, whereas this was not the case in ROTS - Kenobi had no attachment for the Clones that were dying in the opening space battle , to him they were doing their job, while with Anakin it was something more when his men were dying - emotion and attachment. However, Yoda appears to have some attachment for the Wookies, but never the clones in the movies. He's only sad in a broad sense for all the life lost in general and for the the star wars, as war is the opposite to peace in which the Jedi are about and supposed to help keep.

 

Or certain authors - Traviss springs to mind.

Arguably, rightly so.

I think Mia Mesharad's voiced a few explanations as to why Traviss's perspective is a pretty accurate one, in the past.

 

Krell was most likely a decent Jedi before the war. He just didn't like clones and the war took its toll on him and he started to let the darkness in.

 

There's quite a gulf between simply not liking clones and going all-out to try and kill them.

 

True, but there was three years of war for that to change.

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Yeah even Anakin's tactics could be overly-aggressive and costly at times (SFDebris has a running gag about it on his show). Though obviously not nearly to the same degree, nor intentional on his part.

I've also said this before, but the fact that, at least in the context of the PT and TCW TV Show, the Jedi weren't questioning or raising moral qualms about the very concept of clones, is iffy in and of itself.

As for Krell himself, he might have very well been a decent Jedi pre-TCW. But the years of war started to corrupt him and make him more and more ruthless and callous.

 

Whatever happened to Bariss Ofee, anywho? I'm assuming she died, but how and when?

 

Nobody knows, yet. Simplest answer was that she got executed - given that the crimes she framed Ahsoka for, would have been been enough to get Ahsoka executed.

However - there's been no canon answer yet. Maybe Palpatine cloned her first and raised the clone to become the Inquisitor, Seventh Sister?

 

Filoni has said that originally she was going to die in the same arc she went traitor, then he changed his mind about her eventual fate - which he does know, he just hasn't shared. Presumably she's either an Inquisitor or dead, depending on how useful Palpatine thought she could be.

 

IIRC Originally, Barriss was to have comitted suicide in her cell after the events of TWJ.

But since TCW never got to come back to it, cancellation and all that, her true fate is still up in the air.

 

Palpatine wouldn't go through that much trouble for an Inquisitor. Seventh Sister doesn't look like Bariss anyways, the only thing they share is both being Mirialan.

 

Hmmm. That's interesting. I hope that they bring some closure to her story.

 

The Clones as depicted in the Clone Wars series are slaves, there's no difference between what the Jedi did with the Clone Army and what the Empire did with the Wookies.

Now if George wrote this in intentionally and other writers like Filoni didn't notice it I have no idea.

 

Filoni probably noticed - otherwise he wouldn't have made such a big deal out of it in TCW.

 

In ROTS early on there's a scene where Anakin wants to help out some clones who are about to get blown up but Obi tells him not to do it.

I've heard rumors that this was part of the "from my point of view the jedi are evil" subplot that was deleted.

Maybe it was adding too much grey for the black and white Star Wars.