ST The Romantic Future of Kylo Ren and Rey

Just read that the panda is a emblem for......compassion.
Yet another theme we saw...

 

How do the Jedi get married in EU exactly? Do they exchange vows and the force somehow binds them together, making it official?

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wedding_of_Jagged_Fel_and_Jaina_Solo

 

I don't think this was meant to be directed at me...? Just because I didn't say that quote at the beginning, so I think this maybe should be tagging someone else.

I'm not sure I really understand this exchange actually. I do think that in the long run, Kylo Ren will likely turn back to the light or go grey and stop trying to kill all the jedi. I don't expect that to happen as a result of getting beaten by Rey, though. I expect him to be stronger and badder in VIII because LF is going to want to show off their awesome new villain before they full on neuter him with a conscience.

I totally agree with you about the difference in tone between the novel and the movie. They are so different that I feel like it's a strong indication of an intentional change in how JJ wanted to present Kylo Ren. I feel like the Poe interrogation changes novel-to-movie in the same exact way.

 

The description of Kylo Ren as LF's "awesome new villain" kinda seems at odds with what we saw on-screen during TFA...

He started off that way and came unraveled until he was left beat, scarred and bleeding on the snow. All the accoutrements that he used to accentuate his villainy had been lost or destroyed. His mask was left on the bridge, Rey extinguished and slashed his lightsaber, his tunic was shredded and scorched. Kylo Ren was a physical and emotional wreck by the end of TFA.

Sure, he might come back in a shiny new outfit, bigger and badder than ever in Episode VIII. But as most of the criticism of his character seemed to be based on him being perceived as weak, I'm not sure how much of an "awesome new villain" Kylo is in actuality.

 

I wrote a little something for the thread... basically to use whenever someone new posts. It basically describes the thread, what we talk about, what we don't want to see here, all that. I probably need to edit it a little, but this is the first draft:

* * *​

First off, welcome to the thread. This post is designed specifically to summarize the topics that are generally discussed here in order to give newcomers a good idea of what they’re likely to partake in.

What Do We Discuss Here?​

Conversation focuses on a wide array of topics that all in some way relate to the highly unusual hero/villain dynamic presented to us in The Force Awakens. Talk varies from Kylo Ren’s redemption, Kylo and Rey as characters, narrative and character motifs, tropes and deconstruction, film analysis and of course, the possibility of a romance arc between Rey and Ben Solo—yes, Ben Solo, or whoever Kylo Ren emerges as following his development in Episodes VIII and IX (given the overwhelming signs that his development will lead to a positive outcome). As for the term “love story”… love has many definitions. Nobody here is advocating for a repeat of the Anakin and Padme mess, Twilight in space or Fifty Shades of Rey. Many of us aren’t “shippers” and instead use this thread as an outlet for intellectual discussion about the Force Awakens with a particular emphasis on Kylo Ren and Rey.

Why Is This Thread So Long?​

This thread focuses on a topic that happens to generate a lot of attention. Most of it is positive, but some is negative as well, as one would expect of anything worth talking about for 700+ pages. We welcome critical debate as a whole; however, if your arguments happen to fall into any of the categories summarized in the Don’t Make This Thread An Echo Chamber section of this response I recommend you not bother, as you will likely be immediately Ignored. Once we have read the same argument fifty times reading it another fifty times won’t change our opinions.

Common Misconceptions About This Thread​

This thread is NOT designated to discussion about a romantic connection between Rey and Kylo Ren as they currently stand. In that regard the title of the thread is a little misleading. All our discourse surrounds the assumption that the main characters of the Sequel Trilogy are going be forced to evolve by the writers behind the Saga. We don’t care if people take issue with the concept of “Reylo” as a whole. Given what we were presented with in the context of The Force Awakens, a certain level of dismissal is understandable. Not one individual here advocates for a love story between Rey and the angry, temperamental, conflicted, childish Kylo Ren introduced in The Force Awakens. On the contrary, we have spent months analyzing Kylo Ren and have no desire to white-wash his character. He is worth discussing because of his complexity.

Another Bad Love Story? Can We Just Not?​

The title of the thread is a little misleading. Love has many definitions, and we have discussed each with regards to Kylo Ren and Rey. We were all intrigued by the intimate connection presented between the two and are interested in whatever form that bond takes in the future. Rey and Kylo Ren are likely going to be integral to each other’s development in Episodes VIII and IX, regardless of the nature of their affiliation. They could be cousins (though none of us believes this to be the case), platonic companions, lovers or anything in between. The term “love story” is thus a vast oversimplification. None of us wants a repeat of the Anakin and Padme travesty of the Prequel Trilogy. An arc between Rey and Ren could take us in many directions, from a one-sided fixation (which is already canon) to a full-blown star-crossed lovers plot. Done properly, nothing would have to overtake the overarching narrative, which none of us will deny is the most important thing in the end.

Don’t Make This Thread an Echo Chamber​

We have all grown tired of constantly seeing the same arguments thrown around in regards to not just Reylo, but Rey and Kylo Ren as characters. If you’re here to make remarks surrounding any of the following topics I recommend you turn back now. Yes, these are all real arguments that have been repeated ad nauseam.

“Rey is 100% Luke's daughter and you support incest.”
> This is 100% unconfirmed. In fact, most evidence and logic points to Rey Skywalker being a highly improbable theory. None of us believes Rey is Luke’s daughter and we’ve all spent much time analyzing the film and any contributing evidence. If you want to hear more about this just ask.

“Kylo Ren is a psychopath who murdered his father in cold-blood and didn’t even care. He’s going to go Full Dark and Rey is going to kill him. The end.”
> This statement is an insult to every individual who worked on The Force Awakens. It consciously ignores crucial aspects of Kylo Ren’s development and characterization presented to us in the film—most notably the fact that murdering Han Solo left Ren “weakened, horrified and shocked” (all terms used to describe his reaction in the official script). Kylo Ren is an extremely complex character. Based on The Force Awakens, much of this Trilogy will likely surround the fight to save Ben Solo’s soul. Like it or not, redemption is probably on the horizon for Kylo Ren.

“Reylo is an abusive relationship and the interrogation is r***.”
> Rey and Kylo Ren aren’t in a relationship. This is a fictional story. Please don’t apply reality to fantasy. Abuse is a difficult subject for many people and should not be referenced so lightly. The interrogation sequence is one of the most infamous in the entire film because it strays into taboo territory, certainly. It presents a difficult metaphor about the balance of power, and it had to be written that way in order for Rey to emerge in a dominant light. It is an interesting scene in a movie, nothing more.

“All you do is pick at straws from the EU.”
> Actually most of us have never read anything from the EU, myself included. I wasn’t even aware of the EU’s existence before The Force Awakens came out, and I have no interest in it regardless. Our beliefs have nothing to do with the EU. If you want a more detailed response, don’t hesitate.

“But what about Finn?”
> What about Finn? There’s a separate thread dedicated to discussion about Rey and Finn’s potential romance arc. None of us is disregarding Finn’s importance or attempting to replace him with Kylo Ren. Rey, Finn and Ren make up the Sequel Trilogy character Triad, like Luke, Han and Leia before them.

 

But most people loved Kylo Ren. I think he is an "awesome new villain", but he's different. I think JJ and Driver had said Kylo would be different.
I don't think he'll come back bigger and badder, but changed. I think his conflict will be amplified. And I sure hope for more scenes with him. Maybe scenes with Vader's ghost?

 

Everyone's killing it today! So much to praise!

ReyofLightSide Since Ben Solo took the turn like Jacen Solo, who's to say they didn't smush Jacen and Jaina in one and Ben gets married at the end?

Berhan OMG, that headcanon is my headcanon too! I'm crying on the streets now! Love, love, love!

AnneNeville

This is great. I think that old romances, especially from Victorian period, reflected women's repressed sexuality. So it was necessary that a man seduces a woman cause it was improper for women to feel sexual desire. Therefore, to justify what happened, they had to be tricked and/or forced (aka seduced). But now we live in modern times and while the trope still has its appeal, there are many experiments with reversals, and JJ&Kasdan + actors obviously did something right cause Rey and Kylo reversal on gender roles resonates so much. BTW, Virgin Kylo is totally canon. Snoke wouldn't let him. Does anyone really think Kylo ever had a chance to lose his virginity with that GSP in his (chastity) belt? Ha,ha,ha.

Geminiwankenobi

There's more. Finn made Kylo think of what he is missing because of his poor life choices. Seeing Finn hold unconscious Rey really riled him up. "TRAITOR!" Kylo totally betrayed himself. if he hadn't killed Han he could have held Rey and just been with her. So, basically, as many pointed out, Finn is a walking reminder of what Kylo could have been and could've had if he'd made sound judgment.

Darth Imbecillis Order of the Seven... and KoR are called the Seven! And Wuxia, as you say, has many elements similar to SW (Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon even had a special sword!). You are onto something! But, either way, it's no surprise Asian markets ship Reylo. They are very much in line with their legends and lore.

Matt's Solo Cousin

That's my Reylo! Most beautiful, heartfelt ship ever. And so optimistic. There's something both tragic and optimistic/uplifting in his reaction. Tragic that he came to this, fell so low that his legacy saber rejected him, but optimistic in that he had a positive reaction, almost happiness, against all odds. Something happened at that moment. He should have had the same reaction like when Finn lit the saber but he didn't. This time, he wasn't dragged down by darkness but looked like he saw the light and wanted to stay there.
Geminiwankenobi

Bolded in red: This is Reylo Bible. Ying Yang and Ren/Queen and Rey/King ladies and gentlemen! This is the essence of Reylo uniqueness.

 

FrolickingFizzgig Great job! Maybe someone should put your post in the OP?

People should read that first before they jump into a certain conclusions...

 

This this this 1000000x

All the time I hear "You're too independent" "You're too unapproachable" (for what? having a good job? a house? an advanced education? I'm not giving up those things) or my favorite "You aren't giving him enough of a chance" Like I need to lower myself or I can't get a man... So having the super kickass heroine being admired for those qualities is basically exactly what I want in real life, and until then I can have the fantasy.

 

Another idea is to tag the post in the signature and then perhaps put up the post again. Someone had written a similar "warning" hundreds of pages ago... But I also think there aren't as many newbies nowadays.

 

Reylo toy photography have many beautiful pictures

 

You have one single typo: "Rey is Rey's daughter.". Other than that, this is flawless and I think you speak for 99% of us here who see these two as more than just enemies fighting over good and evil. This is wonderful!

 

I LOVE Kylo Ren and Adam Driver's portrayal of him. I agree with what you say, I just think the definition of "awesome new villain" varies depending on how you interpreted the character. Some people out there are still expecting Vader 2.0.

 

idk what you're talking about Rey IS Rey's daughter.
It's been fixed xD

 

Cool post of Kylo Ren's costume. Holy layers! And close up of The Belt

http://kateofthecanals.tumblr.com/post/139975683641/ysbasadventure-starwars-hell-tomoyowang/embed

 

Blimey, Virgin!Kylo must be canon! Unless he's got some looser casual wear, ain't nobody getting through those layers in a hurry... I'm not sure Snoke even needs the GPS (chastity) belt with all that lot to get through first!

 

This is from Adam Driver's interview in Star Wars The Force Awakens Official Movie Special:

"J.J. Abrams pretty much walked me through the whole thing. He talked about how he wanted to start it and the themes that he was going with. He talked about things that inspired him that he and Larry Kasdan were already working on. There have been changing bits and pieces since then, but it's all pretty much the same. J.J. had ideas very clear in his mind about the conventions that he wanted to upturn and things that grounded Kylo Ren as a character. Actually, character was something that he talked about the most. I feel like some of the movies are so heavy on special effects or visuals, and lot of things get lost as far as two people talking to one another is concerned. And that was something that J.J. stressed from the beginning; it was all character, there was hardly any talk of special effects. When we first originally met and talked, it was all about grounding these people in a reality, even though it's a long time ago in a galaxy far away. If no one cares about what's happening or no one believes that these people are real, then you won't care about any of it."


I'm feeling really optimistic about Kylo Ren's character, that he'll develop into something more than just a villain.

 

I thought the same thing. How does one get rid of all these layers? I'm glad you posted it.

But the layers are symbolic as well, right? About the way the character protects himself, almost isolates himself to the exterior world. He's certainly without emotional connection, intimacy.

 

This is gorgeous! I should take photos of my Reylo and their little girls. Now that I'm so much in love with my new avatar, I'll add the third daughter (they have two now) to my collection of Reylo and family dolls.

FrolickingFizzgig Now how do we get your Forum Guide on the first page? or other place where it can be easily found as a reference for Forum Do's and Dont's?

 

It can happen. The challenge is finding someone strong enough in his own right to feel thrilled by female power rather than threatened by it. Otherwise, the powerful woman can end up with a leech and a user rather than someone who supports and enhances her achievement. Plus, real life is challenging. It takes a team of capable people to survive the reversals of time.

Kylo may be a bit touch-adverse. No one touches him in tenderness, just while fighting, thus he needs all the layers of protection. How can you feel anything through all of those layers?

There will be a great moment of eroticism (in film, perhaps, but definitely in fanfiction) when Kylo peels off one of his gloves to touch Rey (on her hand, or face, or whatever). Very Regency. Everything covered except for the face and that one hand.

 

Exactly.
I am wondering if the mesh part was the costume designer's attempt to make it cooler (temperature-wise)? I give Adam Driver credit for wearing all of that.
I wonder what Kylo sleeps in?

 

You guys have blown my mind today! That Panda talk especially, and the Yin and Yang and the possible implications of it. This is one of the reasons I love this thread, it's a one-stop destination for all things Star Wars in a reylo friendly environment.

The feminist power fantasy appeal of Kylo x Rey I've seen brought up plenty times in different ways since I joined this thread. I feel like because there is SO much to explore regarding reylo, it takes a while to really dig into every concept. It needs to percolate through this thread for a good while until someone eventually finds a way to articulate exactly what it is we've been trying to say all along. It's a group effort that builds and builds. Another reason to love this place.

I've got to say this though... if there's no force bond of some sort, if Kylo gets killed, if he winds up unredeemed, if there is no reylo in some capacity, I'm going to have to come to terms with the loss of such mindblowing potential it's... scary for lack of a better word. Dissapointment won't begin to cover it. So as much as I love reylo, I'm abstaining myself from believing with total certainty that reylo HAS to happen and WILL happen. No matter how much sense it makes, and how many signs point in that direction. I feel like it's almost too good to be true and that feeling is unsettling. I can't "ship" the way I'd normally ship. That would be writing fanfiction like I've (sucessfully) done in other fandoms. I admire those shipping actively by putting out fanworks. Art comes from such a deep place within, only an artist can possibly understand how it works. But I just can't take that emotional risk at this point. I don't want to hand these writers that kind of power yet. I'm hoping for the best but not betting on it.

Having said that, this movie has gotten the attention of the female audience in a way I feel the PT attempted to but failed to do. They are sitting on a veritable gold mine with this pairing. They have a potent hook for the female fanbase. Of course Star Wars is a gold mine with or without reylo anyway, but Star Wars isn't exactly known for having an overwhelming hardcore female fanbase, at least in comparison to the male fanbase. And as the PT demonstrated, it's not above reproach and criticisim. And women, rightfully so, will eat this up with a spoon if served the reylo we desire. The one I've seen described here so eloquently today (kudos, guys). It would be the most effective romance in a non-romance genre movie, and would spawn a gigantic obsession of universal proportions. We're seeing it in its nascent stage here with the reylo phenomenon. ¨People (not just women) are going crazy at the potential alone. Imagine if it becomes canon.

 

Rey, bless her heart, really tried to shred those layers with her lightsaber, like Zorro shredded Elena's undergarments with his sword. But she still couldn't get very far. I think that the only way to get rid of all these layers is to have him take them off willingly. Which we know will happen. But at the moment Virgin!Kylo is canon.

Camaro Panda talk is EVERYTHING. I'm 100% sure that Panda Talkers are on the money about panda = yin yang.

 

I'm not sure I understand the connection between pandas and yin yang.