ST The Romantic Future of Kylo Ren and Rey

So much this.

I keep telling myself not to get into that thread. Then I read something so preposterous, I have to respond. I guess I'll have to try sitting on my hands, but then I won't be able to join in here, either!

It does irk me how they go on and on about "violation", and then they argue in the Rey parentage thread that Rey is totally a Skywalker and there's definitely nothing going but but bad cousin versus good cousin. Grrrr!

 

AnneNeville - your experience with the OT is pretty much my experience! I first watched the original films in my teens and they didn't really grab me, and I'm the kind of person who got obsessed with fictional worlds/characters throughout my entire life. Being a visual person and a graphic designer by profession, I always appreciated the iconography of Star Wars, and of course John Williams' score is beyond amazing, but no strong attachment to the films themselves.

I just recently rewatched A New Hope, and while it has charm and the young hot Harrison Ford, it's rather dated and the story is too simple for me, without that big family drama stuff that came later (which is why I look forward to rewatching ESB). And - heresy alert - considering his iconic status I was shocked by how unimpressive Darth Vader was in this movie. It felt like there was no original intent to make him this grand tragic figure, let alone the Chosen One - he's just a henchman in a rather cheap-looking costume. What ANH does do so much better than TFA though is build-up, both in terms of story (everything builds up to the final attack on the Death Star) and the relationships between the main trio. They all have edges and there's no insta-friendship; had it been done TFA-style there's no way there'd be a scene where Han callously refuses to help Leia - but because it's in there it's just so much more satisfying when he comes back to help Luke in the finale.

Re: this trilogy's ending, it could depend a lot on what happens in the next movie, but I can only see a tragic ending for Kylo, or at most a scenario like exile. I just think that he'll have to pay for the fact that he's been offered a chance to come back, and instead rejected it and murdered his father. It in fact would offend my sense of fair, I think, if it all ended with the good guys taking him back, all forgiven.

Whether or not there'll be a romantic angle to Rey/Kylo, his redemption is happening 100%. I'm as certain of this as I was certain, after Half-Blood Prince, that Snape was on the good side, simply because of the way the narratives work and the stories/scenes are constructed. I'm also certain that Kylo will always remain a controversial character, just like Snape still is even though his loyalties have been cleared up. Some people see him as a tragic character shaped by sad childhood, while others still mostly think of him a horrible person whose love for Lily was creepy and unhealthy.

 

Hey guys, maybe of something here. My sound port is bust but there is a video on Rey's thread. They say she is speaking about Gleeson. If that is true are they sharing scenes and is she with the first order? Sorry if it is nothing. Am peeved because I can't here it. If she is with the first order does that lead to more Kylo scenes?

 

She says she hasn't worked with Gleeson.

 

Thanks, like I said I can't hear, Its a shame they haven't worked together on set. Sorry for the disruption Carry on Reylo-ing.

 

If the writers felt his character had no capacity to change, he would have died on Starkiller Base with his father.

I don't think he'll be angry once he actually sees her in person. She stabilizes his emotions somehow. Something about her makes him want to embrace the light subconsciously. We've already seen that any mention of "the girl" seems to drive Ren into a fury. In many ways, she's replacing him. She completely dominates him using with "his own" lightsaber, his mother lovingly embraces her, and now she's off to train with his former teacher. Of course any anger he feels toward Rey would just be a mask for his true feelings. As I said, he's going to unravel quickly in episode XIII. Any facade that he builds up while training with Snoke is going to crumble away as soon as he sees Rey and Luke in the flesh.

 

I dont mind both Luke and Kylo being virgins (one because of Jedi rules and the other because of Snoke's rules)..... and in Kylo's case, his succumbing to Rey's allure become all the more interesting to watch under those circumstances.....

I don't know if any of you have seen the movie Robin Hood- Men in Tights......Maid Marian wears a chastity belt....I can imagine Snoke keeping Kylo in one of those so he won't get attached to anyone....

 

Real-life logic might dictate that Ren can never be forgiven, but narrative logic dictates something completely different. Forgiveness demonstrated by others holds surprisingly little weight when a character can't forgive himself, and Ben Solo is never going to forgive himself. That is Ren's "tragic" ending. Regardless of all the good he may end up doing, nothing will ever erase the Dark path he walked, the people he hurt, the mistakes he made. He will survive with the burden of every sin. That is far worse than any amount of physical pain, far worse than exile. Exile is too simple a punishment in my opinion, just as death is too easy. Ben Solo—the character—needs to be given something Snoke took from him long ago... the chance to live. He is going to be torn apart for the rest of his life, but not by those who may eventually come to care for and support him. That doesn't mean he shouldn't be capable of enjoying life for the little things, being happy, growing up, falling in love. The forgiveness and empathy portrayed by others in response to Ren's atonement can be 100% fair as long as Ren never forgives himself... but that's the thing, the second he forgives himself is the second he is truly lost. Everything is connected.

As for Snape, he is definitely a controversial character. He was selfish, he was obsessive, he was kept alive by the fire of revenge, yet I think we can clearly see how Rowling thought of him and wanted him be perceived by reading the Harry Potter epilogue... "Albus Severus, you were named for two headmasters of Hogwarts. One of them was a Slytherin and he was probably the bravest man I ever knew."

 

Ugh, I'm not bothering in that thread anymore. These people hate Kylo, theres no point in trying to argue with them

 

That thread reminds me of the Colosseum during a gladiator fight. Kylo Ren is the sole survivor of the bloodbath and the crowd is deciding his fate. One side is giving the thumbs up signal, meaning Live! While the other side is booing and giving the thumbs down sign, condemning him to death.

It's really a pity that for some, the interrogation scene is just a depiction of torture and it's often used as a card to claim 'Rey is a poor strapped victim'. That's all they ever see, never mind how she turned the tables on Kylo and emerged as the victor of that round. It's like watching a movie but didn't get to finish it because the viewer keep rewinding this particular scene over and over again.

 

Just remember that it's a tiny minority opinion... absolutely tiny. The hate is toxic. Ignore it if you have to.

 

that interrogation scene is a mystery box in itself, I mean people THINK they know what they're seeing, 'poor victim Rey strapped to a table' but its just a superficial view. you have to look deeper, look at the signs. Rey emerged victorious, because this scene was a power struggle between the hero and the villain, not abuse...unravel the box, take it apart, look at the inner workings, the mechanisms, these are JJ Abrams words, not mine

 

Hidden meanings aside, the poster looks like the thoughts in Kylo's head....Rey and Han in the foreground due their importance in the story, the droid he so desperately seeks, Leia who is important but hidden, and Finn poking him with the lightsaber, causing him pain at various levels.....

 

Is that a part of an interview from a video or article? I hope there's a feature of the interrogation scene on DVD/Bluray where Adam and Daisy also talk about it. That would be cool.

 

MoonFyre
Its in a video I posted here a couple of times, where JJ Abrams talks about the 'mystery box' and why its so important in his filmmaking

 

Saracene, you're not the only one - I've been watching the OT, and Darth Vader is not nearly as menacing as I found him at the time. He's even less menacing if you hear the actual voice of the west country bodybuilder who played him. I defy anyone to remain scared of Vader after watching this:

Adding (so as not to double-post): I think the bridal carry was to emphasise Rey's powerlessness and vulnerability at that moment, so that the eventual reveal of her power in the interrogation was all more striking.

 

See? That's why we were saying that going in that thread is not a good idea. I don't mind the different opinions, I just think that the arguments, when they are so polarized, remain circular and the discussion is not productive.

 

I think MyOnlyHope hit the nail on the "should Ren be redeemed or killed off" coffin when she noted that if the writers had wanted Ren dead, he would have died with his father on Starkiller Base. They had the perfect opportunity to off him for maximum symbolism and impact, yet they consciously chose to spare Ren's life with a single scene. If that isn't proof that the writers aren't done with him then I don't know what is. There is no satisfying trajectory that ends in Ren going "Full Dark" or dying. Even those who have little interest in Ren or even despise him should see that he is very likely going to be redeemed in some fashion. Asking if he "should" be is redundant. The character has nowhere else to go.

 

I also don't read that thread anymore as I don't gain any new perspectives. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but that thread contains mostly the same minority of posters we've seen repeatedly posting the same extreme opinions about Kylo repeatedly. I find assurance in the fact that these extreme opinions are not the opinions I have heard about Kylo in everyday conversations in real life.

 

I also dont get why they keep using " JJ said that the Force Awakens is story is about a man in the process of becoming a villain" Yes the story is about a man in the process of becoming a villain, that is exactly what we see when we are introduced to Ren. JJ did not state that this path will continue this way and he will actually become a villain.

 

....and those certainly aren't the opinions of his creators, who speak of him with anything but hatred and condemnation...

 

More on a breakdown of Yin and Yang..fRen and Rey pretty well:

​

Yin - Ren

Yin, the dark area of the yin yang symbol, is representative of the feminine aspect and stands for the following qualities.

• Moon
• Passive
• Receptive
• Completion
• Downward​

• Dark
• Weak
• Submission
• Small
• Contradicting
• Cold
• Moist
• Withdrawn
• Death
• An up and down movement
• Represents night

Yang - Rey

The opposing, or white side of the symbol represents the masculine aspect and stands for the following qualities.

• Sun
• Heaven
• Dominance
• Bright
• Active
• Hot
• Light
• Heat
• Dry
• Birth
• Forceful
• Expanding
• Strong
• Large
• An up and out movement
• Represents day

 

Kylo Ren is clearly their lovechild. They adore him. The writers praised Driver's performance in front of the rest of the cast without any hesitation, and they take any opportunity to gush about how excited they are for his development. Nobody expresses huge varied opinions about Finn or Rey or Poe... love him or hate him, Kylo Ren is a great work of art, the most fascinating character in Star Wars history by a landslide. The writers absolutely outdid themselves and they know it. They aren't going to throw away years of hard work for anything.

 

Also, JJ would not say "a conflicted man who's going to ultimately be redeemed"... I mean...
I think JJ states that the ST follows a hero and a villain. Two trajectories. So it can't be true that Kylo's arc ended when he killed Han Solo, like some people are saying. Then what does he do in the next two movies? Keeps chasing our heroes with his big bad red lightsaber? If there was one movie left, I could buy it, but imagine two movies of super evil Kylo and cutesy friends with no snark.

 

When did he say that?