ST The Romantic Future of Kylo Ren and Rey

He would not say that. He would not spoil the whole trilogy. That's what I meant. Of course JJ would only mention a villain!

 

Oh right, lol Im so tired!

So im breaking those atributes down to how I think these characters reflect them:

Yin (Ren) _ Queen

• Moon - He is very pale, introduced to us in the night time.
• Passive - He does behave this way at times, sometimes does not let things affect him, other times though...
• Receptive - Again behaves this way at times with Rey
• Completion - dont think this one relates
• Dark - Well thats clear

• Weak - He is shown to be weak
• Submission - Submits to Rey
• Small - Not quite LOL
• Contradicting - His character is very contradictive and conflicted, one moment showing compassion, the next slashing folks down.
• Cold - Yep comes across that way, he lives in a cold place.
• Moist - cant see that one lol
• Withdrawn - Hell to the yes, Im sure this is one who loves his solitude!
• Death - He is dressed like the grim reaper.
• An up and down movement - Fighting style? He does like that u and down slash of his saber.
• Represents night - Yep the poem etc etc

Yang - Rey King in Spanish

• Sun - YEP, she appears to be radiating light in scenes especially when contrasted against him.
• Heaven - not sure on this one
• Dominance - Dominates both Finn and Ren
• Bright - Yep she represents this
• Active - Very active and adventurous
• Hot - She is hot headed at times and represents this
• Light - Yep - introduced in the day time
• Heat - yep
• Dry - She is introduced and living in an extremely dry place (unlike Ren, a cold but lush forest)
• Birth - May meansomething later
• Forceful - Yep
• Expanding - ???
• Strong - Yep, she is defiantly the strong one between the two
• Large
• An up and out movement - Fighting technique? She does this with her stick when we first meet her.
• Represents day - Well yep, she's introduced to us in the day time and the poem

 

KYLO REN (steely resolve)
By the grace of your training, I will not be seduced.
SNOKE
We shall see. We shall see.

I continuously find myself drawn back to these lines. I just have this gut-instinct that they say everything we need to know about Kylo Ren's future development. They summarize exactly what is going to happen in Episodes VIII and IX. "By the grace of Snoke's training, he will not be seduced." When a character makes such an absolute and ignorant statement in the first film in a trilogy, chances are the exact opposite is going to happen. It's foreshadowing 101. Let's analyze some quotes from Anakin Skywalker.

Ki-Adi-Mundi: "Your thoughts dwell on your mother."
Anakin: "I miss her."
Yoda: "Afraid to lose her I think, hmm?"
Anakin: "What has that got to do with anything?"

Qui-Gon Jinn: "Perhaps I killed a Jedi and took it from him."
Anakin: "I don't think so. No one can kill a Jedi."

Both of these excerpts are fascinating when you take into account what we all know about Anakin's future development. He's terrified he'll lose his mother, that he'll never see her again, that her sacrifice will be for nothing. We get a tiny glimpse of the Darkness in him upon his defensive and disrespectful response to the Jedi elders. He is already shunning his own fear. As for the second quote, Anakin says "no one can kill a Jedi." Yet even Obi-Wan makes it clear that "Darth Vader killed the good man that was Anakin Skywalker." He killed the Jedi within him.

Kylo Ren: "[...] I will not be seduced."

Back to Kylo Ren... I don't know if I've ever seen such incredibly obvious foreshadowing. Where is Ren going right now? To finish his training with Snoke. By the grace of Snoke's training indeed. And then we clue into the term "seduction." It's just such an undeniably sexual word to use, an odd choice by the writers. Why describe the Light as "seduction." I guess we can only wait and see, but I for one am convinced that this line means everything about Kylo Ren's future character trajectory.

 

His eyes are full of tears.

Because this is fiction rather than real life, I think that Kylo would be very easily seduced. He wants to be admired, understood, and loved, and not be a crushing disappointment to those he values. If someone can give that sense of belonging to him, nothing else will matter to him. That will be the end. Right now, the pull to the light is a longing for caring that, as far as he can conceive, can never be fulfilled and has thus become twisted. Ignite that hope, and the chains holding him to the dark side will burn away.

Which is not to say he'll be light.

Which is also not to say that such tortured soles are easily saved in real life. Cause this is fiction.

 

Thanks for the video. The quality is better than the Best Movie Moments of All Time one even though it sometimes freezes - at least on my computer.

I love to watch this scene. I don't get tired of watching it. I agree with many of you : why is he not angry and why is it filmed in a way that we see that he is not angry in comparison with Finn? It's there for a reason.

The long looks exchanged between the 2 after the fight is quite something. Actually I cannot find any word to describe it. Personally I don't think he's checking if she's ok or vice versa, but who knows. I think none of them knows what they are feeling at that moment. I suppose that with the ground crumbling down all around them, they do expect to die and to me them looking at each other is them acknowledging each other before their potential death because they did share something. Like a goodbye, but not in a romantic way. They are both so calm at that moment... Yeah, I guess I'd describe it as an acknowledgment of them sharing an intense moment.

On another note, I blame that person who created the famous Reylo video that got so many hits on YouTube for me hearing this song in my head everytime I look at that scene. I didn't even know that song or the band but it somehow fits so well with the battle scene - especially the chorus with the movement of the lightsabers - that I purchased it from itunes and now when I listen to the song, I see the battle and when I see the battle, I hear the song.

Edit: I thought I was replying to Berhan's post with the video of the final lightsaber battle between Rey and Ren, but I must have done something wrong. I am new to discussion threads and am overwhelmed by the functions. Need to learn the basics.

 

Hey everyone, Kylo and Rey will fall in love guarantee it and this ship is life so yea, Kylo and Rey will become canon folks haha, I've been out and I've been drinking but I know what's what!! Totes

Sent from my HUAWEI SCL-L01 using Tapatalk

 

I've kinda reached this stage with the Kylo/Ben redemption thread...




BTW, I've just finished reading In My Bloodstream on AO3 and it was amazing! The whole thing was so well crafted, but the force ghost stuff was the cherry on the cake! Thank you to whoever recommended it (Sorry, I've forgotten who it was).

 

Kylo has moist eyes. Yin and Yang reversal. Cool!

 

HAHAHA, good on you!

 

He is perfect. He is a real jedi. <3

 

Cheers! Hope you were drinking Guinness! and I can't agree with you more - they will be canon..

 

Of course the writers of Return of the Jedi were forced to perform a complete 180 with Darth Vader's character. In Vader's first conversation with Luke in ROTJ, the end of the movie is ultimately foreshadowed:

Luke: "Your thoughts betray you, Father. I feel the good in you, the conflict."
Darth "Vader: "There is no conflict."

 

J.J. Abrams: Gay Characters Coming to ‘Star Wars’

The director of Star Wars: The Force Awakens says you can expect to see future ‘Star Wars’ films be even more inclusive—including gay characters.

Two months and two billion box office dollars later, Star Wars: The Force Awakens has reaped huge returns for Disney with its most progressive episode yet. Now that Daisy Ridley’s Rey and John Boyega’s Finn have given the Star Wars franchise its first female Jedi and black lead, respectively, does its fearless director J.J. Abrams see a future for a gay character in the galaxy?

“Of course!” Abrams said Thursday night at his Bad Robot HQ, where he hosted the US-Ireland Alliance’s annual Oscar Wilde Awards ahead of Sunday’s Oscars, where The Force Awakens is nominated in five categories. “When I talk about inclusivity it’s not excluding gay characters. It’s about inclusivity. So of course.”

By Abrams’ logic, the sprawling Star Wars universe couldn’t possibly exist without a gay populace—even if we haven’t seen a single character identified as gay thus far. “I would love it,” he said. “To me, the fun of Star Wars is the glory of possibility. So it seems insanely narrow-minded and counterintuitive to say that there wouldn’t be a homosexual character in that world.” [...]

source: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/02/26/j-j-abrams-gay-characters-coming-to-star-wars.html
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So... How do we call it now? A love square? ^^''

 

FrolickingFizzgigg - I see what you mean about Kylo never forgiving himself for Han's death being his punishment. I just think it makes sense for this kind of internal punishment to be accompanied by an external punishment, for the lack of better word, instead of Kylo being welcomed back into a society, settling down with a family etc. Sure he might hate himself, but hating yourself while also enjoying a regular life and having the society forgive you does not strike me as a punishment that's fair in narrative terms. I can't think of an example of a character who kills his own family and gets to live without paying a hefty social price.

Also personally, I'm just not keen on seeing Kylo primarily as Snoke's victim. Yes his influence cannot be denied, but I just don't like this idea of Kylo being a marionette robbed of his own agency and responsibilities for his own choices. Plus he doesn't come off to me that way anyway from his interactions with Snoke.

On gay characters in Star Wars: lovely sentiments from JJ, but the day I believe Disney machine would jeopardise its own profits by including an openly gay character is the day pigs will fly. Unfortunately.

 

apparently there have been secret phone calls and meetings to discuss it...I guess that means it might happen...

 

I agree with all of this rowan_greenleaf. We have all had that brilliant professor who can't translate. I have actually done quite a bit of personal study on education, learning, cognitive behavioral psychology and neuroscience over the past year. (I have a preschooler and I am trying to figure out what path her education should take). But based on my reading, this "brilliant professor can't translate" is a not just an imagined phenomenon because sometimes that expert has in psychological terms gone so deep into their expertise that they can no longer wrap their mind around a more rudimentary state of learning, just as you indicated above.

On the Luke subject, the viewer almost *has to* think that Luke is an imperfect teacher, IMO. There is no question that he failed somewhere with Kylo/Ben. At the very least it appears that he underestimated the influence Snoke had on him and/or overestimated his abilities to protect him from such influence.

Also ... and this is a real question because I have never kept up with the EU, but how are we supposed to know that Luke is so unbelievably powerful? Is it just based on him being Anakin's son? Was there some Jedi ranking system in the EU? But wouldn't that be gone now? At the time of ROTJ, he was definitely not Yoda. In ROTS, Yoda could defend himself against the force lightning, but in ROTJ Luke could not. Also, Luke never did some of the moves that Anakin and Obi-Wan did in the prequels and TCW. Are we to assume that Luke just grew in power over time and now he's at that level? But could he have grown if there were not that many force users to interact with? Also, could Luke's shortened education be one of the reasons Kylo/Ben would be attracted to Snoke's knowledge, because maybe Snoke would know more?

OTOH, Snoke is scared of Luke. I have no doubt about that. But Snoke seems pretty broken down, or maybe Luke really is all that. I just am wondering how this is determined. Also, I agree rowan_greenleaf that Kylo is doing really incredible stuff that we never saw in the PT and the OT. I mean I am not even sure the emperor could just pick things out people's heads like Kylo can, and for me the emperor seemed like one of the most proficient, if not the most proficient force user of all the movies. I assume the emperor probably could, but maybe we just never saw it, but who knows? Apparently Vader couldn't though, because he needed a drug in his torture/interrogation of Leia. So needless to say, Kylo has some interesting skills, and that's when he's only had partial training, like you said. So we don't know where Kylo goes from here actually if he can get his head straight. If he actually can come to a place where he can integrate both sides of himself and accept himself, who knows what he will do, because he will be able to touch both sides of the force in a way others less balanced cannot.

I further agree that Kylo has a lot to offer Rey on a lot of levels. In the yin and yang vein, I firmly believe Rey has some darkness in her. We don't know what Luke's darkness level is at this point, (though he looked pretty disturbed on that island), but in the past, the extent of his darkness was more a symptom of him being impatient and young. He seemed to be over that by the end of ROTJ. Now a bunch of traumatic stuff has happened to Luke in the past 30 years, so that might have changed. But never would Luke have that inborn half-and-half struggle that Kylo/Ben has. Luke also had a pretty good young life. Rey and Ben did not. (I don't believe that despite having decent parents you can say someone had a happy childhood when they have a child predator in their head from birth, jmo). That's a psychological point of connection between Rey and Kylo/Ben. Also, like you said rowan_greenleaf, Kylo/Ben will just know more, because he's actually learned something of the dark side. In other words, he is more aware of the yin and yang than Luke ever could be.

Finally, returning to the subject of Kylo/Ben and his integration, a lot of people have kind of expressed who they want Kylo/Ben to be when he is either with Rey or redeemed or hopefully just still alive at the end of the ST. I for one don't think I really want an almost total return to Ben Solo, or at least who I think "weak and foolish" Ben Solo might have been. The Ben Solo part is awesome for the passion and the emotion and the intensive feelings and one would hope the moral code. However, I also get the feeling that he was a really nervous guy who always had profound insecurities. It''s not like I think he has two separate personalities, but it's almost like the Kylo side of him didn't just emerge from the dark side, but maybe also as a defense mechanism for that nervous side, because really, when he is more in Kylo mode he seems more sure of himself and his abilities. I'm not so sure Ben was sure about anything. (Maybe unmanipulated Ben would have, but we probably can't get him back to that beginning). I guess what I am saying is that I would be most interested in an integration where the viciousness and insane darkness leaves, but he still has an edge to him, even though he is basically a decent person. I mean he has touched the darkness, and he is made half-light and half-dark, and I actually don't be believe all "dark side tendencies" have to be inherently evil. Some them might just be more ambition or determination or resourcefulness or intense feelings or just having the stomach to deal with things more tender people cannot (and sometimes that latter person is necessary for the good of everyone). Of course, now I'm starting to sound like I want him to be a good Slytherin or something! LOL!

But to put the brakes on my rambling, I think his acceptance of the light and the dark inside of him and becoming an integrated person with elements of both Kylo and Ben would be the most interesting path of all. In that situation a lot of people might still hate him, but he would also be the type to come through when it counts. And though he could be trying, people could love that kind of person.

 

OK, so "I will not be seduced" vow went out of the window when he met the girl'd heard so much about. Yes, he killed Han but he is also seduced and not just by Rey. Han;s touch on his cheek, the same one that Rey scarred later. That's the brilliant duality. You are supposed to think one thing happened but something else is actually happening underneath but not so subtly that those who want to see it see it.

That said, I'm much more cruel than Redemption Forum. I want Walk of Shame. I'm not settling for less. Naked Kylo. Enraged masses. Enormous shame. What I loved about it in GoT is that it makes you feel sorry for Cersei because it's so OTT that you cannot help but put things in the right perspective - this is a very flawed human being but still a human being.

Bye now, I'm gonna watch Star Wars Episode I. I want to watch the whole saga for the weekend with a special attention for Anidala and Hanleia. Can't promise that I won't be distracted by Obi Wan in Episode I-III, tho.

Talk to you later about these couples and parallels with Reylo and everything else that may connect.

P.S. JJ's statement is "I would love it" and not "we are totally including gay characters" like clickbait headline claims.

 

Pablo Hildalgo (yeah, I know...) answered a question today on Twitter regarding the completion of Kylo's training. The questioner asked if Kylo was going to be changing his name to Darth [insert favoured option here] after his training. PH said "Kylo is not Sith. So he would not adopt such a name." Where does that leave him in relation to his beloved Grandpa?

I think it was already confirmed that Kylo wasn't a Sith, but it does still beg the question of what Snoke is and what "completing training" actually means.

I've probably read way too much fanfiction (it's a worry!) but I really like the idea of Kylo and Rey training together somehow. If the endgame is to have Grey Jedi, I don't think she could get all she needed from Luke. Even if he's opened his mind up to the possibilities, he's probably too wedded to the old Jedi ways. I could be wrong because he didn't exactly look at one with the light side of the force in that teaser trailer! Oh, but it would be so amazing to see Kylo and Rey doing all the "Mister, I'll Make A Man Out Of You" stuff together for real... A girl can dream...

 

So much to catch up on!

How I would like this trilogy to end with Kylo: him reconciled with Leia and Luke, and him with Rey.
They may not show them as a couple, but maybe the possibility of it. I like the idea of them starting a new Jedi order. I would love the last shot of them flying away in the Falcon, with Rey piloting.

I find it hard to believe they would kill off Kylo. However, if they do, it will be spectacular and very dramatic.

RE: the PT. I have seen all three and I just never cared for them except for the end of ROTS. The OT had a lot of heart and the PT just didn't. I feel like TFA is more like the OT in that way.

Jacob Tremblay would be a good choice for young Ben. He also looks a bit like Carrie Fisher.

Speaking of the Falcon, seems like after our discussions here on Kylo flying the Falcon the idea also showed up on tumblr.

I admit if Rey ends up a Skywalker, or somehow related, my interest in this trilogy will lessen greatly. I will be sad at the missed potential.

Back to Ep 8- I cannot wait for their first encounter. Surely Kylo will have some sarcastic remark about his scar. In TFA, even while in pain after the blaster shot and chasing them in the woods, he sarcastically says "We're not done yet."

 

I actually like the idea of Kylo and Rey learning Grey Jedi stuff together... they play each other off well and bring out both the worst and best from each other during their encounters. Learning through their experiences of failures and success, they'll achieve the balance between the light and dark.

 

Maybe they need each other as teachers.

 

I never said I considered Snoke to be the one to blame for Ren's wrongdoings... far from it. As a character, Ben Solo was never given a chance to live a normal life, a normal childhood, a normal anything. He was tortured through the very life-energy he happened to be gifted with. It was always part of him, but that doesn't mean Ren himself isn't also to blame. He made decisions on his own. Snoke didn't order the slaughter of those villagers, Snoke didn't murder Han Solo. I have no intention of white-washing Ren's crimes by casting all the responsibility on a character we know next to nothing about. We don't have all the information.

As for the "punishment" bit, we're going to have to agree to disagree. From my perspective there is no need for Ren to be burdened by both physical and emotional retribution from both himself and the outside world. There is nothing worse than being unable to forgive yourself. Nothing. People make mistakes. Atoning can do a lot in the context of a narrative of this design. Saving the galaxy and righting wrongs seems like a good place to start. You really want to see Kylo Ren make the right decisions, do everything in his power to help those he cares for, and then be cast aside and exiled as a punishment for sins that occurred before his character development? That makes no narrative sense whatsoever. I think you're overlooking the other characters' capacity for empathy and understanding. Leia will always love her son. She can't help it. As for the others, we don't know what's going to happen. All I know is Ren deserves a chance to live the life that was stolen from him. He is that kind of character. There is a hole in his past that can only be filled by surviving to see the future, to atone for his mistakes and overcome his deepest fears. Just think about it like this... Han Solo forgave Ren as he was being impaled. He sacrificed his own life to save his son from being painfully torn apart by the Dark and the Light. If Han Solo can forgive, I think everybody else can too... everyone but Ren himself, and that's exactly how it should be.

 

What do we think Kylo's training by Snoke will consist of?

 

Doesn't seem to be anything good.
But it's also scary to imagine Kylo even more powerful. I thought he was downright powerful, more powerful than other dark siders we've seen in the movies. (Let's forget his fiasco with Rey, that was different).

 

Probably going to be about him shutting out emotions, it will look like its working, then he'll go tell him to hunt down the girl and kill her. I think a reset button of sorts has to be pushed, because its a new story again, not saying it cancells out everything from the last movie but he cant start in a good place if we want him to end up good, he'll be starting in a dark place again, most likely trying to shut things out but when he sees Rey I can guarantee it will undo pretty quickly.

The shots used in the interrogation scene, when he first goes to her face we have a profile shot of him, he's not as close here. his face is pointed down. In the next shot, he's literally right next to her face. They actually repositioned him to give a sense that he wants to kiss her i think. The expression he makes when it first cuts to him, he moves his mouth open and closed again whilst hungrily looking at her lips, thats a sign of attraction if I ever did see one, attraction and desire.

 

Sarcasm is big with this one. Thank you Han and Leia. I love the "comfortable?" he throws at Poe during the interrogation. Or the "look how old you've become" to Lor San Tekka. Such an insolent brat I could totally see him make a sarcastic remark about his scar.