Lit The Star Wars Multiverse (thread 2)

A while back I started posting about my constantly-updating article on the "Star Wars Multiverse". I realized I hadn't added to the thread in two years, even though I just added something to the list.

Here's what my original post said:
"Most comic fans here will know what a multiverse is. Yes, it's actually some real theoretical thing discussed by scientists, but in the geeky world we know it best from DC and Marvel comics. It's the term they use for their collective universes and realities, etc. It's probably most famously used by DC Comics, who now seem to destroy and recreate the multiverse semi-annually.

I put together an article listing the various alternate realities, timelines, etc, that can be found in Star Wars. But I'm not trying to suggest that Star Wars fiction should turn into the reality-hopping mess that some comic worlds have become! This is just a fun fan exercise."

Check out the list on the SWFA site:
The Star Wars Multiverse

 

It's a good idea, it doesn't necessarily mean that we should see Disney-Luke meet Legends-Luke and so on, but I think there's notable differences inbetween the galaxies. For one, the Empire is much more long-lasting in the Legendsverse than the Disney one. There seems to be big differences in terms of technology, too. Luke, Han and Leia look to be in their 40s-50s by the time of 30 ABY in Legends, while in Disneyverse they look 60s-70s (I know OOU it's about actors being old, but hey.. IMU explanation). This could point towards better medical technology over in Legends. There's two different ways in how the Rebellion was formed. In Disneyverse, we see a slow gathering of smaller cells while in the Legendsverse it was Vader and Sheev intentionally putting together rebellious Senators and it backfiring on them.

Small note, does Palpatine have the 'Sheev' first name in Legends? Was he ever referred as Sheev in the few material that came in the midst of the Legends announcement that kinda became apart of 'both' universes?

 

No, "Sheev" is Nucanon only. It only appeared in James Luceno's Tarkin.

 

I haven't really been following much of the new fiction. Has it already been revealed how long the Empire lasted in the new canon? In "Legends" they remained an enemy for 20 years or so, but by the time we got to 30-40 years beyond ROTJ they weren't very powerful. I'm also not sure what the Legacy comic series said about the Empire.

 

The Empire started from 19 BBY and has existed so far up to Legacy (so ~130s ABY). Of course, the legitimacy of the Remnant and Fel Empire can be disputed, but it's certainly more legitimate than the First Order where when it comes to Disney Canon, the Empire officially fell in 1 ABY, lasting a total of 20 years, meanwhile if you include the Felpire and Pellaeon's Remnant, the Legends Empire has lasted 149 years and is continuing. If you go by Jello's saying that the Felpire/Remnant are illegitimate then the official Galactic Empire still lasted up to 12 ABY, 31 years, and even if the Remnant is illegitimate, it's still way more legitimate in appearance than the First Order.

 

The bona fide Galactic Empire lasts for seven years following Endor in the old canon, finally ceasing to exist after the events of Crimson Empire II. I don't know if the new canon has outright stated when or if the Galactic Empire is completely gone as definitively as The Essential Atlas (p. 209) did in the old canon, but it seems like the Empire stops being anything resembling a threat only a year after Endor, following the Battle of Jakku.

It's true that the Imperial Remnant remained a threat for a long time in the old EU --- they continued fighting the Galactic Civil War just one year after the fall of the Crimson Empire, and the peace accords weren't signed for another seven years. The Remnant weren't very powerful over the next decade, but they became stronger at some point after the Yuuzhan Vong War, absorbing a lot of territory and covering a lot more space by 40 ABY (nyah compared to nyah). After Jag took command, his Victory Without War program won them even more territory as Imperial influence spreads, and nearly a hundred years later the monarchic Fel Empire defeated the Galactic Alliance in a war, becoming the dominant galactic power and reducing the Alliance to a fleet on the run.

The First Order is basically the new-canon-equivalent of the Remnant, still going strong decades after Endor. A notable difference is that the Remnant spent so many years putting up a fight, but the First Order spent those equivalent years laying low and building strength. Imperial influence in the galaxy was stronger for longer in the old EU during the years after Endor.

 

I was under the impression that the First Order was a "revival" of the old Empire and not exactly a continuation. Again, I'm behind on the spin-off material so I'm not sure of all that's been revealed. Maybe that's just arguing semantics, but the Remnant -- at least before the 130 ABY Legacy comics -- seemed more like the real Empire just dwindling down to a little tiny territory.

 

I haven't been following the new EU closely either, so I'm not exactly sure what the First Order is in relation to the old Empire. In the old EU, however, the Remnant wasn't an official continuation of the Empire --- the Empire died with Xandel Carivus, and the Remnant was formed a year later by uniting a bunch of disparate Warlord factions that had already broken off from the Empire before its demise.

P. 97 of The Essential Chronology states that during Crimson Empire, the Empire's territory has been reduced to a narrow band stretching from the Outer Rim to the Colonies. P. 209 of the Atlas reveals that after CEII, there was an "utter collapse" of Imperial authority, with the Galactic Empire essentially ceasing to exist. Other Warlords have territories in the Deep Core and throughout the Outer Rim, and it's those Warlords who band together to form the Remnant. The territory that Pellaeon reclaims in the subsequent Orinda Campaign is adjacent to the Outer Rim territory of the former Pentastar Alignment and other Outer Rim Warlords (all now a part of the Remnant) --- it's not adjacent to the territory that the Crimson Empire held, because that territory all fell into New Republic Hands one year prior.

By 19 ABY, the Remnant is more a continuation of the Pentastar Alignment than of anything else, as its remaining territory falls completely within former Pentastar Alignment Space. And the Alignment was just one more Warlord Faction that wasn't answerable to central Imperial leadership, save for when Ardus Kaine and Delak Krennel (of the Ciutric Hegemony) pledged their fleets to Thrawn in 9 ABY. They weren't rejoining the Empire, but rather joining Thrawn's Confederation, which was composed of the Empire and of those two Warlord States (p. 201 of Warfare).

 

Wouldn't The Clone Wars animated series also be a part of Legends because, as I understand, the Fate of the Jedi series I believe references Mortis, etc.

 

Shattered Empire, Lost Stars, and Aftermath are the primary sources at this point for what happened just after the Battle of Endor. There were several other battles in the months following in which the Rebellion continued to get the upper hand. The Rebellion started the New Republic during that time. After the Empire lost the Battle of Jakku the Empire officially surrendered and the remnants went out to the Unknown Regions to regroup.

 

Yes, but the Remnant kept the trappings of the Empire and even claimed it was the Empire. Imperial Citizens no doubt still considered it a continuation of Palpatine's Empire. I'm not sure the First Order could say the same. It has the looks, appearance and style of some of the crazier Imperial warlord factions rather than trying to be a legitimate continuation of the Empire.

 

Havoc there have been two books and one comic mini that have talked about it so far. As they continue to fill stuff in over the next few years I'm sure we will get characters who still consider the First Order to be part of Palpatine's Empire. If Nash is still around by the time of TFA I'm sure he would still consider it to be a part of it.

Also considering how obsessed Kylo Ren seems to be with Darth Vader he likely still considers them to be a part of the old Empire and not something completely different.

 

Yeah, that's probably true. When the Remnant showed up, citizens of worlds like Orinda were probably just like "Oh, the Empire's back. I wonder where it went?" And that's a good point about the Remnant at least considering itself to be a legitimate continuation of the Empire. And you're probably right about the First Order stylizing itself as something entirely new. We'll have to wait and see.

 

Yes, I would say The Clone Wars does really sit in both universes considering it was in existence before the Legends/canon change happened. It may be time to add it to both and include some notes about it.

 

The closest Palpatine got to being given a first name in the old EU was when the TPM Visual Dictionary almost gave his first name as Ethril.

 

With Star Wars "under new management", does anyone think we will end up with some kind of universe crossover? Like we've gotten with Star Trek and DC, etc? I would think the Lucasfilm people wouldn't want it, and SW probably doesn't need the boost right now, anyway.

AND... would you be completely against it?

 

I always like crossovers, flat-out universe kit bashing that happens in comics often, but I'm an outlier in at least that on this board. But I would so be down for a Legends / Canon crossover event, it'd be so nonsensical and it would also legitimize the Legends continuity as a distinct parallel universe in Star Wars canon.

 

I am positive we will see a Star Wars/Marvel Comics crossover at some point. Maybe in a long-term, but it'll absolutely happen. The same with Star Wars and Kingdom Hearts.

Plus it's already happened on Once Upon a Time. If I remember right, Jafar from Aladdin considers throwing a prisoner to a sarlacc.

 

Marvel is probably drooling - DROOLING, I tells ya - at the prospect of having one of their Big Summer Crossover Events turn out to be the Marvel Universe runs into the Star Wars Universe. But I would bet Lucasfilm would have to be the ones to pull the trigger on that.

 

Plus let's not forget that for a short period in the 70s, no less than the comic adaption of 2001: A Space Odyssey was integrated into the wider Marvel comic universe.

 

Ben solo has a force vision of Jacen Solo. While I don't want canon characters to cross over to the Legends world and vice versa, I wouldn't the force allowing a certain character glimpses into other universes.

 

Yeah if not a straight-crossover, I think some reality bending Force Vision stuff from Legends could be an interesting quirk. "Things you will see, other places," etc.

Luke's been sitting on Isolation Peak for a long-o time. He's probably seen some stuff.

 

I'd be disappointed if he didn't see something from the EU at least once.

I'm still disappointed Luke wasn't trapped in a sith tomb, with Vader, Palpatine, Exar Kun, Caedus and Krayt tormenting him.

 

Hey, there's still plenty of room for Luke to go on adventures. Like maybe he accidentally jettisoned from that Irish island in an escape pod and spent ten years wandering the galaxy before making it back just in time for TFA. They could make an eighties cartoon series out of it!

 

I approve