ST Are there too many implausible coincidences in TFA?

One thing that has struck me about TFA, regardless of whether it is a good movie or not, is the ridiculous amount of amazing coincidences. We simply didn't see this in the original 6 movies.

Before we examine those coincidences in TFA it is important to look at the original 6 movies and examine some things that people claim are coincidences, but can actually be logically explained. For example:

- At the beginning of ANH, the two droids are above the very same planet both had been on years before, that is now the home of their former owners son. But that isn't a coincidence, because Princess Leia and Bail Organa were attempting to send the Death Star plans to Obi-Wan Kenobi who was looking after Luke Skywalker from afar, and who was known by Bail Organa to be on that planet.

- Anakin building C3P0 is NOT a coincidence. This happens in Episode 1 and if we watch the movies chronologically, we don't know what the future holds. All we know is that Anakin built a droid. C3P0's fate through the next 5 movies all follows a logical plot that leads him logically to Luke Skywalker.

- Qui-Gon finding Anakin is not a coincidence. If Ki-Adi Mundi found Anakin when he was 4 instead of 9, Anakin's story would have followed a different path. 9 years of age just happened to be the age at which a Jedi stumbled across him. It could have happened when he was 9, 14, or 30.

Compare this to The Force Awakens:

1.) Rey, Fin and BB8 have a map to Luke Skywalker, and the three of them happen to accidentally stumble on the Millennium Falcon, the very same ship which was so instrumental to the very same Luke Skywalker whose map resides in BB8. What are the chances?

2.) Rey is captured and it taken to the StarKiller Base planet. Remember this is a PLANET sized facility. Han points out to Finn that he sees Rey. They found her! Phew! What were the chances of that? How in the hell is it realistically possible to find someone on a planet[/b] when you don't know where they are or where to start looking?

3.) Maz has Luke's lightsaber. When I first saw the movie, I though that this wasn't a coincidence, because I thought that was why Han took Rey and Finn to see her. But, upon second viewing, Han didn't know Maz had the lightsaber. Han even says, "where did you get that?" So incredibly, Rey and Finn are looking for Luke Skywalker, and Han takes them to see an old friend, who, UNBEKNOWNST TO HAN has the lightsaber of the very same Luke Skywalker that Finn and Rey were looking for.

4.) The ground opens up between Rey and Kylo Ren just when the story decides it is convenient to do so.

5.) By pure coincidence, the one stromtrooper in the whole galaxy who doesn't have a gun,
(when all that was needed to kill Finn was a gun) happens to come across Finn, and two two engage in a "sword vs sword duel, when a "gun vs sword" duel, (which would be the case with 99.999% of the other stormtroopers) would end in death for Finn? What were the chances?

I've only really scratched the surface of implausible coincidences, so I'll leave some out. What others can you come up with? Are there too many? Whether the movie is good, or not, is it true that the plot is far too implausible and coincidental for a Star Wars movie?

 

Destiny comes to mind. Besides, they didn't just stumble on the Falcon, Han & Chewie started tracking it as soon as it left jakku's atmosphere.

 

Yes, they did. Rey and Finn, almost literally stumbled onto it by pure coincidence.

And why was the door open and the keys in the ignition, by the way?

 

For in universe plot convenience and out of universe nostalgia.

 

Oh you mean in Jakku? Apologies. Guess we're back to Destiny.

 

What if these coincidences are the will of the Force? Reminds me of what Obi-Wan said to Luke:

"The Force is what gives a Jedi his power. It's an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us. It binds the galaxy together."

 

True....But it's a mighty coincidence that a) The Jawas happen to find and pick up both C3PO and R2 and they just happen to same Jawas Luke and Uncle Owen purchase droids from, another might coincidence is the original Astromech Droid they choose is faulty so they change it for R2.

Not Entirely sure how this is a defense in it not being a coincidence? I mean They happen to get hit fleeing Naboo, they happen to go to Tattooine and just happen to go the very town where Anakin is, Then they just happen to walk into Watto's shop where "the chosen one" is a slave????? It also is perfectly timed for when there is an upcoming Pod-Race so they can see Anakin's power on full display.

Well the Falcon has been there for ages, Rey knows it's been there for ages (she doesn't know it's the Falcon) I also think it's no coincidence that the Falcon is on the same planet as Rey, but that remains to be seen.

umm nope. It's a Base on a Planet! not a Planet Sized base! Besides if you're going to hold TFA to these standards, why not ANH? the Death Star is the size of a moon (much bigger than the actual base on SKB btw) But the Detention Center just happens to be within walking distance of where they were pulled in by the Tractor beam?

This may be a coincidence, but It's more a plot device for Rey's flashback more than anything else. We'll see how the story unfolds.

What you mean like when Han shows up at the Perfect time to save Luke? Firstly in ANH with the death Star and Secondly in ESB on Hoth. Boy it sure is lucky Han went the right direction in a damn Blizzard..... But once again it's part of the story.

Actually I'm pretty sure he does have a gun, he throws it down. It's personal for the Stormtrooper, he wants to put the Beat down on Finn, which he does and would have killed him if it wasn't for Han.

Every Star Wars movie has alot of "Coincidences" I can understand if you don't like them, But they happen in all of the movies so to hold TFA to a different set of rules is bizarre.

It's the "Will of the Force" Qui-gonn says those exact words after coincidentally stumbling across Anakin. It's a huge part of what happens in the SW Universe, If you don't like this, then i fear SW isn't really for you.

 

Give me a break. So you didn't have a problem with Obi-wan living on the same planet as young Luke in EP4 but it's "an amazing coincidence" that Finn and Po crash land on the same planet as young Rey in EP7?!!!?!?!

Like EP4 before it, I'm guessing we'll learn it wasn't an 'amazing coincidence' that Lor San Tekka, a trusted old ally of the good guys from the Rebellion days lived on the same planet as young Rey.

 

Are you serious buddy? You think Obi-Wan taking Luke to Tattooine, then living nearby and watching him, is a coincidence?
And really, the fact that Finn crash lands on a planet and then accidentally bumps into Rey (and the droid that everyone is looking for) is a massive coincidence.

If only Po had stayed with Finn and not given up on his quest to find his droid (That is the reason Po wants to go back to Jakku isn't it? He does actually state that doesn't he?), he would have found BB much earlier and completed his mission much earlier. But he disappeared and left BB-8 to fend for himself.

 

Did you watch the movie?? Po AND Finn fly to Jakku, from the Trajectory at which Poe heads to Jakku, he's obviously heading towards the area where he was previously. Later in the movie he explains what happened to him (thrown from the TIE fighter at the crash, woke up everyone gone etc, I assume he want to Nima outpost to get in contact with the Resistance, I would imagine they had a search in the area for BB8 but saw the destruction and assumed the worst

 

I sure did. 5 times in full and 2 more attempts that bored me senseless and I fell asleep.

You assume and you imagine. So you don't actually know?

 

Since I guess this will soon turn into an "ANH is full of implausible coincidences" backlash I'd like to address the candidates (and reply to Jimmycrank's post # 7).

1. Leia's mission was to bring Kenobi to Alderaan (according to the extended dialogue in ROJ she was told to do so in times of trouble), thus she had the coordinates of his residence (rather than to spend weeks to find him) and provided Artoo with these who set down the escape pod lander module in the vicinity (probably deviated slightly off-course). IIRC, the canyon where he was caught by the Jawas was the same one / shooting location as the one where they meet Kenobi later, i.e. Artoo got really close.
2. Artoo and Threepio were captured by the Jawas and offered to the first settlement they arrived, i.e. Lars Homestead. The distance between Kenobi's place and Lars Homestead is determined by the speed Artoo was able to travel between what appeared the evening of one day to the late morning of the following (same as the sandcrawler). Essentially, the Lars and Kenobi are apparently neighbors.
3. The malfunctioning of the "buckethead" R2 unit known as "Red" was a coincidence on behalf of the ongoing story.
4. After Luke has been knocked out by the Sandpeople Kenobi arrives. Yoda stated in ESB clearly that he had "watched" Luke grow up, and he had the ability to communicate with Kenobi over interstellar distances according to Rebels. Apparently Yoda told Kenobi that he had to go to the canyon (nearby his place) and save "Young Skywalker".

 

I think I am going to start another "begging the question" thread (using that phrase in its proper usage), only to get all these in a consolidated mode,so we can continue to recycle the same criticisms in a different guise and generate the defense, in perpetuum.

I will call it: Do you think that (insert subject) is impractical, lacking, implausible, shoddy, poorly done, and incredulous, in TFA ... or is that valid?

 

OF COURSE NOT. But we didn't learn that Obi-Wan chose to deliberately lived near Luke in EP4 did we? Why should the presence of Lor San Tekka on Jakku near Rey be any different?

 

Are we really debated what happens off screen some more?

Anyways, the only way C-3PO and R2 ending up where they end up in ANH is coincidence (exact location, jawas, broken Red)...

Also, in regards to Anakin/3PO that was only explained after 4 movies and the whole story after 6. This is the first movie in a trilogy. Things will be explained. And if they aren't I certainly don't care as I can imagine how things may have played out AND enjoy watching movies without endless exposition.


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SkooterNB

The were send to Kenobi who happens to be the neighbor of Lars Homestead. What a coincidence!

 

Why could they only track it when it left Jakku? Was Jakku impenetrable? And how did Han manage to get to the Falcon so fast? Was there a longer passing of time between these events in the book would you know (not read it)?

 

My argument isn't about where they land, I know they have the Co-ordinates to find Obi-Wan so will land in let's say a 50 mile Radius of where Obi-Wan lives, It's more about the circumstances leading them up to getting in the hands of Luke, Such as the Jawas, the Malfunctioning "Bucket-Head" etc, another coincidence just to add on top of that is The Lars's just happened to need new droids at the same time as R2 and C3PO land on Tattoine.

I never argued about Obi-Wan being around Luke, that certainly isn't a coincidence

 

In this mythical universe full of prophecies and stories of fate, why can't we just chalk these coincidences up as "the will of the force?"

 

I was speaking to the fact that they just so happen to be the droids that the Lars are looking for and happen to be picked. They obviously are trying to get to the right location to find Obi Wan...


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There's a difference I think between a coincidence and a contrivance. And a coincidence is not nesersarily evidence of bad writing/plotting. However, what I'd argue is that if you took the droids being sold to the Lars out of the equation, how much would change? R2 would have still got to Obi-Wan and perhaps Obi-Wan would have still tried to enlist Luke somehow? Same applies to Finn going AWOL on the same planet Rey and BB8 are. It's a coincidence, but there's a coherent logic for it. However, it's more the elements of the Falcon being on Jakku, the keys being in the ignition, Rey being a great pilot, Han Solo's freighter being the first thing the Falcon comes across etc. that end up feeling highly contrived conveniences that are presented as the plot demands. I'm sure all the SW films contain contrivances, but the issue with TFA (IMO) is it piles them one on another and throughout the film. Contrivances, as I'm sure any good writer will tell you, are usually an indication of lazy writing or writing being done under pressure. Takes your pick...

 

jimmycrank

Rather than just to address your observations, I wanted to ensure to address the others at the occasion.

Did the Lars really need new droids or did they just inspect the goods to see if there was something they could use? We don't know how often the Jawas stop by at Lars Homestead, so Owen Lars merely used the occasion.

I'm also certain Kenobi and Luke would have met anyway. Had the Jawas not interfered how could Kenobi and Artoo possibly have made the trip to Mos Eisley? He would have showed up at Lars Homestead and asked whether Luke could give them a ride with the landspeeder or skyhopper.

EDIT: Darth PJ beat me to it.

 

... especially in a universe where a mystical energy surround everything and binds everyone.

 

...and where nobody has free will because everything is pre-determined by fate / the will of the Force?

According to the ANH novelization, we didn't hear it all:

"In my experience there is no such thing as luck, my young friend - only highly favorable adjustments of multiple factors to incline events in one's favor."

 

Well I don't know about that. If Lars hadn't bought them, then they could have been sold to anyone, Maybe R2 could have escaped and got to Obi-wan, who knows.

As for the Falcon being on Jakku and the keys being in the Ignition, Yes that is a coincidence but I think the whole "steal the keys idea or w/e" isn't done because it's a reveal, it's a nice surprise mixed in with Humour to reveal the Falcon like that. I think there's every possibility there's additional reasons for the Falcon being there, But we'll see, But in terms of story having the Falcon being on Jakku, it lends itself to Rey knowing alot about the Falcon. As for Han being in the first ship for the Falcon to come across, He mentions it appears on his tracking system, now i don't know how these things work in the SW universe, but I guess they get some information, Han saw it on his tracker, knew instantly it was the falcon and moved to intercept it.

Coincidences don't bother me in the slightest, SW is littered with them, does TFA have a few more than the others? Possibly, Is it Lazy writing, Personally i don't think so, more to do with time constraints of the movie I believe.