ST The Romantic Future of Kylo Ren and Rey

I agree. No one here is "sexually repressed" for liking a character.

I like a lot of characters in Star Wars an outer areas.
I like Dustin Hoffman as Hook, doesn't mean anything in regards to dirt. Sexual repression. Anyway. It's over with now.

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I really loved this childhood vision thing too. It's a beautiful explanation for the look of awe on his face. He not only is in awe and little in love with her at the moment, he has been for a long time.

Also, the point I bolded is also well taken. If he can readily feel from her, without having to do actual mind reading, that she is going to try to give him a Jakku-style beatdown the second she wakes up, the restraints are actually kind of justified in that pragmatic "let's not have a nasty tussle where somebody ends up really hurt" kind of way. Once again, this could be a moment where if the audience actually looks at the actual elements present in the scene at hand, (i.e. Han is trying to bomb the son's base right before his son catches him and then kills him) instead of how we are supposed to look (i.e. "Good guys go all the time"), the whole thing gets a lot greyer. I really hope some of this "greyness" is intentional. It would show that the filmmakers are trying to grow the series into a more complex, layered product.

Also, Reynak, thank you so much!

 

Bold 1) That sounds pretty intense not gonna lie... wow

Bold 2) In this thread definitely! (and a few others but how would i compliment this one so much then? )

 

We are not at WAR here discussion debates for a fictional tale never should end up on the personal side

 

Little_Boots
Seems to me the person in question is projecting his own problems and inadequacies on to us.

But yeah, it's over let's just move on.

 

A agree nagajuna, we should all be at peace

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Wait what happened? Was it that guy with the whole "Virgins" thing?

 

This is really food for thought. I have noticed something else, that young boys tend to dislike Kylo whereas women tend to like him and older men at least understand him, many of them find him a convincing and interesting character. I have heard some say that young guys dislike him because the character strikes too close to home for them. He makes them feel uncomfortable because of his insecurities, his emotional turmoil, how he wears his heart on his sleave when facing Rey,his tantrums, how he is less than perfect, how he tries to live up to others' expectations and fears to fall short, the way he is affected by emotional pain and also shows his fascination for a girl who hates him,rejects him and punishes him. I guess all these things would belong in a young boy's nightmare. They don't want to feel unempowered or vulnerable and Kylo is all that and more.

Boys are told that showing their emotions is a weakness and that being too affected by them isn't right for a guy. Some young guys liked Kylo until he unmasked, some said this was because he was ugly but I think it was because his face looked soft and vulnerable under the mask. Of course he wasn't going to look old beause he was Han's son and if he had looked tougher, perhaps the way Adam looks in other roles,with a toughter expression, they would have felt less disappointed.

He was made to look dreamy on purpose but that was aimed at a different target: women. Boys like Han Solo's smirk, or Clint Easwood's cool but not Kylo's dreamy vulnerable and open facial expression. Some say he's a horrible villain because villains can never fail against girls and other men below them the way Kylo did. They say they expect Snoke will train him properly and he turns into a real bad guy, not an emo kid with shiny locks. They wanted a ruthless tough guy and they got just the opposite, that's why they don't want to idenfify with him and dislike Reylo, I think. They prefer to identify with Finn, who is not on the brink of tears all too often and who is funny and fun to be around, who doesn't feel affected by the death of his fellow storm troopers when he helps destroy a base full of them, etc. Boys don't want to identify with overtly emotional male characters, they go to the movies to identify with heroes and empowered guys,not conflicted vulnerable ones. So,Finn deserves the girl, because Finn could be any boy unless we find he is force sensitive and he embodies quite well most boy's standards of masculinity whereas Kylo doesn't.

Kylo has all the potential, being tall, strong, powerful and with an amazing heritage and powers but he fails miserably because he is soft, that's how many of them see him. Women are the opposite, we see his strength and power, which we like, but then we see his vulnerability and humanity, that he isn't unfeeling and remorseless, and unlike many guys, this makes us like him even more, this makes him more attractive as both a man and a character rather than the opposite.

 

So good, all of it. I especially loved the bolded.

 

Ha...then there must be something here that you really like.....admit it....you are into Kylo Ren

As am I...because why else would I be checking my JCF messages while out....

 

How does everyone picture the next interaction Kylo will have with Rey?

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the sameish as the last one.

 

Rey will want to whoop his ass, against Luke's advice, or perhaps in a nice turn of events, Luke will be the one who wants to do that, and Rey will stop him.

Speksy - don't think i don't notice you handing out all those likes to everyone catching up to do or what? haha

 

I don't think Luke will want to whoop his ass, after all, Kylo is his nephew. I'm not sure about Rey either. She seemed conflicted after slashing his face and almost killing him. I don't think either Rey or Luke will attack Kylo, they might try to talk to him, to convince him to turn back to the light. Of course, if he attacks first, they'll defend themselves. OTOH, I don't see Kylo attacking Rey. He never attacked her in TFA, only defending himself. Even the famed tree toss was in self defence.

Their meeting could be an interesting scene, with some talking, and eventually they'll draw their lightsabers.

 

Hmmm, yeah, or that

 

I think Rey is "physically" attracted to Ren. Only physically but she probably doesn't recognize the feeling at all.
When he removed his mask I'm sure she felt attraction physically.

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I finished the first draft of Part One of my essay on fairytales and hero/villain dynamics. This essay is going to feature three parts, one discussing Star Wars as a genre, one addressing classic fairytale hero/villain dynamics and one focusing on just what makes Rey and Ren's dynamic atypical of the genre (unless the writers are slanting in a very obvious direction). The "girl and the false mother" vs. the "son and the false" father vs. "beauty and the beast". Nothing too groundbreaking in this part, but I needed to detail the basics before I went deeper.​

​

The Hero, the Villain and the Modern Fairytale​

Why “Reylo” could be canon in exactly the way you’re hoping​

​

- Part One: the Fairytale, the Hero's Journey and the Coming-of-Age -​

Not long after The Force Awakens was released, an excellent paper was published addressing the potential of Rey and Kylo Ren—the “hero” and “villain” of the Star Wars Sequel Trilogy—forging a romantic bond over the course of the story. The writer, Ohtze, applied Gothic literature tropes and monster-movie iconography to The Force Awakens, highlighting the significance of the infamous “bridal carry”. However, several months have passed since this meta was written, and I would like to analyze The Force Awakens from a different perspective. Star Wars is neither a Gothic tale nor a monster-movie; it’s a fairy-tale and a coming-of-age—it’s a children’s story.

Why do I say Star Wars is a fairytale, a coming-of-age, and a children’s story? Well, there are concrete reasons founded in narrative deconstruction that I will discuss further along in this essay, but first observe these quotes from George Lucas, creator of the Star Wars franchise, JJ Abrams, director of Episode VII and Mark Hamill, actor behind Luke Skywalker.

“The movies are for children but some [fans] don’t want to admit that.”
— George Lucas

“Star Wars is a fairytale. It’s a fantasy. At the heart of Star Wars is that idea of the Force, which is almost the antithesis of Science Fiction. It’s a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away.”
—JJ Abrams

“Star Wars is more fairytale than true Science Fiction.”
— Mark Hamill

Now, what makes Star Wars a fairytale—or more specifically, a modern fairytale? The Oxford English dictionary defines a fairytale as “a children’s story about magical and imaginary beings and lands”. In his book “On-Fairy-Stories”, J.R.R. Tolkien added to this definition, summarizing the fairytale in his own, less linear manner:

"What is a fairy-story? […] Stories that are actually concerned with ‘fairies’, that is with creatures that might also in modern English be called ‘elves’, are relatively rare, and as a rule not very interesting. Most good ‘fairy-stories’ are about the adventures of men in the Perilous Realm or upon its shadowy marches."

As Tolkien observes, the greatest fairytales can follow man or "fairy". It should be obvious that Star Wars as a franchise fits under this definition perfectly. It is about men and knights and princesses and monsters doing battle in the great unknown, in a galaxy far, far away. That does not mean Star Wars is “childish”, just that it was always intended for families to enjoy together, to discuss, share and love as a collective unit. Like all great entertainment meant to be enjoyed on various levels, Star Wars invites all to follow the journey of its characters. It is an epic fantasy fairytale in the vain of The Once and Future King, Lord of the Rings, the Wheel of Time, Harry Potter or the Prydain Chronicles.

George Lucas himself even once revealed that he used the famous Hero's Journey trope as an outline for Luke Skwalker's developmental trajectory in the Original Star Wars Trilogy. Interestingly, all of the above examples also follow the Hero's Journey. It is an absolute classic when it comes to children's fantasy. "What is the Hero's Journey?" you might ask. Well, it's an archetypal narrative pattern first described by Joseph Campbell. The Hero's Journey features three stages: the Departure, the Initiation and the Return. Rey’s developmental trajectory in The Force Awakens happens to follow the Departure stage to a T.

Rey’s Departure​

- Ordinary World: Rey’s life on Jakku.​

- Call to Adventure: Rey is drawn away from Jakku and into the adventure by BB-8 and Finn.​

- Refusal of the Call: Rey repeatedly states that she needs to return to Jakku. Her ultimate refusal comes after she is thrown into the Forceback on Takodana. She flees the call of Anakin’s lightsaber.​

- Supernatural Aid: Maz Kanada.​

- Threshold Guardian: Kylo Ren. He interrogates her, in some way “unlocking” her potential​

- Crossing the Threshold: Rey crosses the threshold when she takes up the lightsaber and overcomes her Threshold Guardian.​

- Belly of the Whale: Having accepted the lightsaber and her Force-Sensitivity, Rey has realized that her family is never returning. She has sought out Luke Skywalker for answers.​

But Star Wars isn’t just a fairytale that follows the Hero’s Journey, it’s a coming-of-age-story. Also called Bildungsroman, the coming-of-age is “all about the protagonist’s journey from being a child to being an adult. It is a journey that takes a young person from naïve to wise, from idealist to realist and from immature to mature. The path of the protagonist, or the main character, can vary from story to story. […] There will usually be pain and suffering along the way—growing up isn’t easy. However, no matter the narrative direction, the result is that the hero grows from his experiences and in some way loses the childhood innocence that helps steer him towards adulthood” (Ann Casano).

Coming-of-age-stories are particularly interesting because they don’t dismiss any genre. Just look at how many different narrative classifications can be applied to Star Wars: Fantasy, Science Fiction, Western, Action, Adventure, Romance, etc. Star Wars is all of these, but it is a coming-of-age and a fairytale first and foremost. All other genres it happens to include can be easily placed under that umbrella.

 

Little_Boots I agree with you. I think she kinda feels attracted to him but that's shameful. She can't accept it, she mustn't. That would be one of the reasons she took pleasure in hurting him, and that would also explain why she scarred him while she was already winning the fight...

 

If the force bond is real, then their first interaction in the next movie will not be in person. Perhaps scary/weird for her as she doesn't expect it to happen? It's very difficult for me to think of what Kylo's reaction would be, I have this wish that I don't think everybody shares, I want him not to have revenge/ or somebody else orders in mind when chasing Rey. I really don't know though...
In the long run I'm hoping to see the reversal of Anakin's story, this idea is slowly becoming my obsession. I don't want to see Rey trying to get Kylo out of the mess he is in, but I want him to decide to go there because of her, I suppose in the same way as Padme never did anything for Anakin to fall, but yet it was fear for her that made him. That's just how I'd like things to proceed.

 

I picture it taking place in their minds.

I could see her not wanting to face Kylo Ren at all for a while. She looked pretty shook up after they had their fight. I could imagine her thinking that facing him again might bring the 'dark side' in her to the surface. Daisy did a really good job with Rey's snarl and stalking at the end.

 

The only other person her age she has met aside from Finn, who is a human, and has any form of connection to would be Kylo. I'm unsure of the point i'm reaching for, but yeah.

 

Haha yea.... I get you.... He unmasked for purposes.
The vain git!! (joke)

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Hi! I haven't posted for a while, since I've recently been only lurking on my phone and cannot construct a proper post. But I wanted to say I have really been enjoying all your posts. They're truly constructive and brings a new perspective to the thread. Kudos.

What you've said rings very true to me. But I think it might not be restricted to only demographics, young boys or not, but rather the culture that you are talking about. It's more comfortable to have an outright "complete" and powerful villain to hold responsible for all the horrible crimes committed. It's easier to think in black and white, and that is what was what we were trained to do when we were younger. That doesn't stop these all-powerful villains from being cool/kickass, because they still hold certainty in their character.

But Kylo just turns this supposed ideal concept of the villain inside out. Literally, he is vocalising the inner emotions of the villain to the audience - something that is so far been primarily mute. On the other hand, Rey has been a strong and all-powerful character and rarely shares her feelings. As much as I don't want to state it like this, there has been a reversal on the traditional male/female qualities on the two characters (being that male = strong / female = emotional). It's funny how many people have been referring to Kylo as the princess that needs to be saved or the Queen (as contrasted to Rey's King) and attributing to him feminine (emotional) qualities. In my opinion, it's good on the SW's part for encouraging this reversal (I've done a lot of research on how the media shapes the social imagination). But it has gotten me noticing, while there has been very few reactions to Rey being a strong female (thank god for that), Ren as a whiny, emotional boy seems to get more questioning and is not taken as seriously. Somehow, being an emotional and temperamental figure does not suffice the character and he is often projected with the path of becoming the perfect villain by letting go of these qualities, even when they have made him iconic in the first place.

Sometimes, I believe it is a social thing. When the ideals and the social constructs we have grown up with are removed, it is much easier to enjoy the complexity of the characters and the story. I feel this is why SW is a coming-of-age story.

 

Something that might be semi important on the force bond front. Ezra in Rebels seems to be able to fully bond and call on the help of various animals. So at least we have that to back things up for the bonding in new EU cannon.

 

I was away for a couple of days and now I have thirty pages to catch up on
And you all make such good posts so can't just skip them