ST Darth Plagueis is Snoke? (Episode VIII & IX)

Qui-Gon, and many Jedi after him were able to figure out how to come back to life as force ghosts. Whose to say that a Sith couldn't have figured out, posthumously, how to re-animate his body after death?

Come on guys, this is a fantasy universe that has talking ghosts. Why is the idea of someone being able to return from the dead so far-fetched, especially when that person is said to have been experimenting with creating life and "cheating death" for quite some time?

Look at the body of Plagueis and tell me that this does not appear to be something mortally wounded, ancient, unnatural, and slightly decomposed.

Correct....and this is a point I have made in another thread. We need to keep in mind that Episode 3 was the last real-time movie of the saga. Sure, in episodic order, we are 4 episodes removed from it, but in terms of real-time, it is the last movie.

Whose to say that Lucas wasn't dropping foreshadow hints into the last movie, setting up the plot for a hypothetical sequel trilogy.

Also keep in mind, J.J. is using parts of Lucas' original story treatment for this sequel trilogy. I'd say this would be a pretty major element of Lucas treatment.

Maybe he's not a Sith. Maybe he denounced his "Sith-hood" and dropped his Sith name. Maybe Snoke has always been Darth Plagueis' real name.

So as you can see, it is possible for Pablo's declaration of Plagueis not being in the movie and Kennedy' no-sith statement to exist while at the same time giving the viewer, Plagueis.

 

I'd love it if Snoke was revealed to be Plagueis. The idea that there is this ancient evil, looming over the entire saga, so insidious that not even Palpatine could thwart him? It would not only connect the three trilogies (so far) but also connect them to SW's potentially rich, pre-TPM history, which now lies mostly untouched.

And if this were a novel, comic book or video game I think it would be a no brainer.

But for the feature films? Not going to happen. The vast majority of the general audience don't know who Darth Plagueis is and as such just wouldn't give a damn if Snoke were revealed as him. It would take a level of nerdsplanation that I think Disney-Lucasfilm are going to largely avoid with this trilogy.

 

I disagree...all it would take is literally 1 minute of expositional dialogue to explain Snoke's backstory.

What would the "general audience" prefer more do you think? A random bad guy that came out of nowhere and started doing evil stuff? Or a bad guy, with backstory and ties into previous movies?

I don't see how the latter detracts from the viewing pleasure of the casual fan.

I think we can agree on this - the fact Snoke knows about Vader and Palpaltine's failures shows us that he has SOME sort of backstory and isn't just a random bad guy. So why not fill that backstory with elements from a previous movie, the last previous movie that came out at that (ROTS)?

 

Like I said, I'd love to see it happen.

However I'd shocked if it did. I can't imagine that JJ and Kasdan even recalled who Darth Plagueis was while crafting TFA for him to have any place in the story. Not unless he was in Lucas' outline and they retained that portion.

But I'd love to be proven wrong because Plagueis would be a great addition and tie everything together.

 

I feel like we're underestimating the general audience here. These are the same people who are pumped up for Thanos in the Marvel films. I mean, I'm the resident marvel and DCpedia of my friend group when it comes to questions about characters and stories among my friend group. They are the general audience of these films and are excited about a character that they literally have no idea about. All it took was me answering the question "Who is Thanos" with a quick description for him to be accepted. And I'm sure it's the same for the rest of the GA as well. All they have to do if they actually care is to do a bit of google-fu.

Now when they asked me who Snoke was, I explained that he could be Darth Plagueis. Some recognized the name but not much else and some had no idea who that was. But tell them he was the Emperor's master who was studying how to cheat death and that he and Sidious were the reason Anakin was the Chosen One? They immediately and readily accepted that.

It's not a complicated or hard sell to make to the general audience. They would have to give an even crazier and likely more time consuming explanation of Snoke if he's a random dark sider.

 

Or the fact that Pablo Hildago (spelling?) has confirmed that he is not Snoke.

 

He has never stated that Snoke is not Plagueis. He's said Plagueis is dead, but never outright stated "Snoke is not Plagueis"

 

How would Plagueis be Snoke if he was dead? and is still dead during TFA?

 

The same way Obi-Wan stated that "Darth Vader killed your father." Darth Plagueis the Sith Lord is dead. Snoke remains and is what he has become.

 

I don't have anything to say to that so I guess you win.

 

Eh it's not about winning or losing. You have every right to believe your theories just as I do mine. Until we get a definitive answer in film, our theories are all that we have.

 

I know I was just stating it more like I cant debunk your theory with your logic.

 

Pablo Hidalgo tweeted that he is dead.So Snoke can't be Plagueis.


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Darth Geezy
Darth Plagueis' birth name was Hego Damask, it has no bearing on the theory that Snoke could very well be Plagueis because he would've banned all ties to his former self if he was trying to stay off the grid from Palpatine.

 

Guys Pablo has specifically said that Snoke is a new character and so has Serkis.

I literally asked him a minute ago.
https://twitter.com/pablohidalgo/status/728681540453052416?lang=en
what more do you need?

 

That can be interpreted in different ways. "Snoke is a new character", meaning, Snoke has not appeared in Star Wars until Episode VII, for example. That is true, but doesn't answer the question about Snoke's identity. If Snoke isn't Plagueis, then all they have to do to end this debate, is straight out say that Snoke is not Plagueis. Thus, the debate is still open.

Also, let's say Palpatine is telling the truth, and Plagueis really is dead. What if Darth Plagueis found out a way to one up the Force Ghost trick, by actually possessing another body?

 

Sith officially can not come back after death force ghost or otherwise. this was confirmed in TCW.

 

I don't remember that. I'll have to watch the DVDs again. I am a fan of TCW, but that makes me angry that they would limit the Sith that way, and it ends up being Canon. Hopefully they will overlook that bad idea. Either way, they will need to come up with a good reason why a powerful Dark Side Force user, who is a contemporary of Palpatine, would just sit on the sidelines all those years.

 

Very well said and concise. And you displayed an admirable level of restraint.

 

C'mon, that's ridiculous.

 

What's ridiculous about it? the fact that people still believe in the theory or that Old man Muun is dead?

 

"Rey's Parents weren't in TFA" quoted by JJ and then backtracks, THEY can't even keep their mystery box straight.

 

Indeed. A "saga" or "series" needs to be consistent thematically--nothing more.

Either each segment needs to share a theme or themes with the others or the totality of it needs to have a unified theme/themes.

And I'm only speaking in terms of the traditional interpretation of what the words "saga"/"series"/"epic" even mean.

Just because your 4th grade English teacher tells you, for instance, that the opening paragraph of your essay needs to have this or that and consist of five sentences mean you'll be arrested for deviating from this rigid, oppressive structure.

Don't fence me in, bro.

Let me run free; let me gallop at full-stride.

Let me bend like a reed in the wind.

let me erupt
with sound and fury

let me be reduced to a single thought

an idea

let me assert the freedom
bestowed unto me
by the social contract

into which
we all enter

by the dead document
to which we're all beholden
at that moment
our gooey forms
are squeezed out of
exhausted
fleshy
incubators
and a being
in calming blue garb
slaps our asses

and we finally
open our eyes

to a fluorescent-lit nightmare

that begins a journey

a journey ending

in silence
in loneliness
in darkness

shut up dude

seriously
it's not funny

whatever
it's just a plant

and you still
owe me money

sixty-three bucks

yes you do man

remember
from last month

I paid your third
of the electric bill

 

For me it will just be such a huge missed opportunity if Snoke does not turn out to be Darth Plagueis. This is a saga, and Plagueis is connected to the Skywalker linage through a strong implication that he created them. I really hope they go this way.

 

50/50 my guess. That Wise thing in the movie and the director refusing to directly answer. The twitter guy even has a lot of wiggle room with the different names.