ST Andy Serkis (Supreme Leader Snoke) in the ST

Oh he may have been losing the lightsaber fight, no question. My point was more about his use of Force Lightning. It looked more to me like he unleashed far more power once Anakin had sided with him than beforehand when Mace was barely holding it back. But you may be right as well. I hadn't heard that interview (or didn't remember it).

 

Funny though that in the Clone Wars Sidious had no problem with lightsabers duels, in fact he was very powerful taking on both Maul and his brother.. didn't seem that effected by old age...

 

Yeah that battle was incredible. I really wish we could have seen him going at it with Mace's strike team like that.

I did read an article somewhere that said Lucas had designed that scene with Sidious fighting more extravagantly. There was much more to that battle, especially with regards to him actually fighting the other 3, but McDiarmid's stunt double was sick during filming of that scene so he had to cut back what McDiarmid himself could handle.

 

instead we get the "Sheev spin." lmao

 

Yeah I love me some Ian McDiarmid, but you could tell that dueling isn't his forte. He looks quite awkward during those scenes. Heck SLJ kind of did as well. And it's easier to animate a cool acrobatic fight than it is to choreograph/shoot one with live action actors in general I'd imagine.

Also there's the infamous "Jedi Mastere, members of the Jedi Council even, just stand there like clueless idiots and let Sheev slowly and awkwardly kill them instead of fight back" thing, oops.

 

You know how there's been a ton of debate over who is in the bacta tank in the Rogue One trailer? Well, what if it's Snoke who Palpatine defeated and keeps alive as a trophy.

I could see Snoke plotting his master plan all those years. And when Palpatine dies, he breaks free of his confines, escapes into the Outer Rim, and begins building his forces. That would be an awesome flashback sequence for Episode IX.

 

It's not Snoke. Pablo took a lot of heat for it, but he snuffed out that speculation.
There just aren't going to be the ties between Rogue One and the ST that some think there are going to be.

 

MSW already said that the person in the tank was Vader, though.

 

Oh yeah I remember that.

Either way I still like the idea of him being one of Palpatine's trophies.

 

No. They said that Vader is rumored to be the person in the tank, and they're not highly confident about it.

 

People are so quick to exaggerate rumours into fact. No wonder there's disappointment when films are released

 

Ah, sorry. I looked at the post again and apparently I misread it.

 

There's no better testbed for the "game of telephone" theory than fandom.

 

personally i feel like theres a lot in the scene to suggest that either of the two theories are possible. personally, i like to think that Mace isn't on at the top of the Jedi Council for no reason, and that his skills are somewhat different to Yoda's, being more of a combatant than Yoda and his ability with the Force. so in the scene, we have two of Mace's lackies get absolutely embarrassed, while Mace basically dominates, while its a close encounter with not too much around to supplement force abilities, other than force lightning, which was used and pretty well defended against until Anakin shows up. yes, i think Anakin, in Palpatines mind, was always going to show up, but i also think if he didnt, Palpatine was finished.. like a lot of Palpatine's strengths, calculated risks is another one, which reaped rewards when Anakin finally does show up. but thats just my interpretation, im sure theres many others too.

thats a really interesting idea. i think you could be onto something here, at least in terms of general points. some of it sounds a bit contrived, but at this point, its quite hard to NOT make it sound like that with such little information/context/knowledge on timeline. it sounds almost too smooth, if that makes sense? but the ideas are great, id be happy for something like that to eventuate. even if we take out the 'imprint/mark' idea, Snoke just generally knowing Leia to be pregnant, thus, making a long term plan to watch over and later, guide Ben to allure of the dark side is something i can imagine playing out. once he is convinced enough that Ben has fallen, maybe thats when they are able to communicate telepathically (or just one way, Snoke to Kylo), and this is a part of the intial training Ben was promised. its not like Snoke hasnt been doing that (being patient/hatching plans for the long term) over the course of at the very least, 50 years (TPM - TFA). we all think Sidious was a long term player, calculating and being patient with everything, but by comparison, Snoke has already been confirmed to be more patient (unless there is some kind of frozen/incapacitated in some form for a period of time), since Sidious pulled off his plans in less than half that time, which arguably could be seen as being more efficient i suppose.

 

Big Boss - My timeline is probably way off. The core idea really, was that Bloodline leaves little room for Snoke to have been a Chancellor Palpatine-like figure, someone hidden in plain sight during Ben's childhood and adolescence. There doesn't seem to be an opening for such a character. This coupled with what I took as a somewhat ambiguous answer by Leia concerning why she never trained to use the Force, led me to the idea that Snoke may have targeted Leia at first. Which would seem to move the meeting between the two of them to sometime very early on after ROTJ.

Another reason that I like this idea is that it makes Snoke's very first move in this story the poisoning of the vow that Luke made to Leia in ROTJ. So part of the reason that Leia never became a Jedi is down to Snoke.

 

yeh, i like this idea. while i dont necessarily mind that Leia never became a Jedi (always felt politics was her forte), or put too much weight into the idea that Luke would teach 'her' (i more took it that he would /teach/ in general, which apparently happened with attempted Jedi Academy), i think its a great point for Snoke to target the 'weaker' Leia (which would also act as a way of inflicting personal pain on Luke), by comparison to the trained Luke, but later finding out about the next Skywalker child (Solo/Organa, yeh, but next gen of Skywalker blood, which is what an evil genius would see).
going on from the idea that he's overseen PT/OT/ST era's, i wonder if he knew about Palpatine's master plan. i wonder if he wad evil all that time. i wonder if he has something against the Jedi, maybe a personal reason?
I just think that its weird how that slice of information was put out there, when he's only acted post-ROTJ, with the formation of the FO and corruption of Ben.
the ambiguous answer by Leia leaves me thinking she knows more about Snoke than shes letting on and maybe she is the vessel we find out more about him (through exposition) in future films. Luke may know too, hence why he left to gain knowledge, but i share the sentiments on how she gave a purposeful ambiguous answer (Claudia Gray) most likely saving it for the movies.

 

I think there is a good chance he just did it from the shadows and never really had any face to face meeting with Leia or Ben before "calling" Ben to him after twisting his mind for years.

 

I read this the other day and have been thinking about it since. After finishing Bloodline this weekend, I re-read some portions of the novelization for The Force Awakens, and was once more struck by that small hint of familiarity Snoke has with Leia when we first see him speaking with Ben. I also re-read the relevant part of Bloodline. Originally, I thought Leia was hinting to how learning about Vader had impacted her, but it may not be that at all.

In terms of the specifics of what went down, I'm not so sure I see all this as likely. At least, in terms of the Acolytes of the Beyond, or what Snoke did or didn't do. But an encounter at this time period, and especially when Ben was still in her womb, seems very likely. I'm surprised to get some Dark Empire vibes here, especially with those scenes in which Palpatine talks to Leia and seems to be eyeing her and her children for his future plans. I'm not remotely suggesting anything else in the plot would be similar beyond that sort of interaction and interest in manipulating the next generation of Force users. (No cloning or mind transfers, please.)

Another thing to note, from Aftermath, is that line about Luke having an "incorruptible soul." We know he does, but Leia certainly may not. And indeed, throughout Bloodline it struck me just how much darker she is than Luke. At different points, she gets angry, moody, paranoid... all for good reasons... and toward the end she even acknowledges understanding how one could fall to the dark side. Of course, she isn't trained in the Force, so she's not as susceptible to the full seduction of the dark side... plus she's strong as hell. But in many ways, I do see how Leia's personality, and her traumatic history, could've been seen as exploitable by a dark-sider like Snoke, and how upon meeting her he could've opted for the long game with Ben.

One final comment related to this; when I re-read those portions from the TFA novelization, I couldn't help notice how much Snoke is portrayed as someone who fashions strong Force-users, someone who trains and creates powerful beings, rather than being himself the sort to act directly. He even tells Ben, after they discuss the awakening in the Force, that he alone (Ben) is at the center of these events. Snoke is removed, in more ways than one. This reminds me of that OT/early EU conception of Jedi Masters (and Palpatine) not as direct active participants in the action, not lightsaber wielders or fighters, but as wise beings who trained others in the ways of the Force, and essentially acted indirectly only.

All very interesting, and different.

 

Yes, it seems that one of Snoke's defining characteristics is his remoteness. He deliberately distances himself from the events. Like Sidious in the PT, I suppose, but actually physically distant from proceedings, rather than leading a double life. Hidden away in the unknown regions, whilst all this transpires.

Which brings me to a thought I had this morning on the significance of Jakku's status as an entry point to the unknown regions.




Jakku's location is important. Remember this tweet from Pablo, back in December?

@pablohidalgo is it just a coincidence that Lor San Tekka and Rey are both on Jakku or is there more to that?
8:42 p.m. - 28 Dec 2015


Pablo Hidalgo – ‏@pablohidalgo

@lopan1374 More to do with where Jakku is. The lead up to the battle of Jakku narrative should offer more insight.
8:44 p.m. - 28 Dec 2015

The Databank entry on SW.com says that Jakku's strategic importance was that it was a jumping off point for ships headed to the unknown regions - where Snoke and the FO are based - and also that it was the site of a secret Imperial research base.

"During the final years of the Galactic Civil War, Jakku was the site of a secret Imperial research base and served as a jumping-off point for warships heading into the Unknown Regions."

The purpose of Jakku's research base becomes clearer once you consider Tashu's speech from Aftermath. Jakku was likely the centre for the Empire's research into the 'source of the Dark Side'.

“Palpatine felt that the universe beyond the edges of our maps was where his power came from. Over the many years he, with our aid, sent men and women beyond known space. They built labs and communication stations on distant moons, asteroids, out there in the wilds. We must follow them. Retreat from the galaxy. Go out beyond the veil of stars. We must seek the source of the dark side like a man looking for a wellspring of water.”

The significance of Jakku's position as the jumping off point for the unknown regions to Rey's story could mean that she was either dropped off there by someone on their way to Snoke / the FO, or perhaps left there by someone escaping from the unknown regions, and the FO / Snoke.

 

This almost exactly describes Pablo's old EU background story for Cronal during the galactic civil war. It can't all be coincidence can it?
Then there is that concept of snoke with the big helmet that looks just like Cronal's alias Blackhole holographic appearance, which was then used for the 5th brother and given a helmet very similar to the shadow helmet that Cronal put on his Shadowspawn pawns. Also the 5th brothers skin being changed to black, just like a Blackhole Stormtrooper. Too much to be coincidence I think.

 

Which concept of Snoke with a helmet are you referring to? Not sure I've seen one?

 

Seconded. I've not seen or heard of a helmeted Snoke concept art either...

 

Helmet. Proven!

 

This one



Compared to this


That concept was used instead for this guy


Compared to....


Lord Shadowspawn a pawn of Cronal. Notice the lightsaber.

 

I believe that concept art is from the initial stages of production, for the "Jedi Killer" character who became Kylo Ren. I believe what the artist was originally trying to imitate was the shape of Vader's helmet (which may have been the case with Cronal/Blackhole, too). That said, there are a lot of similarities between the possible/hinted background for Snoke and Cronal's.