ST Kylo Ren and Rey in VIII and IX (See new guidelines on page 228)

I agree!

I LOVE that Rey isn't made to look traditionally "girlie" OR "masculine" OR "androgynous."

I mean, I'm a woman who wears pretty basic shirts and pants on a regular basis and no one would ever say I look "androgynous."

Daisy Ridley (as Rey) is very attractive - pretty, sweet, with a youthful openness to her face. You could put her in stormtrooper armor and she wouldn't look "butch."

I think Rey as a character is a brilliantly designed and cast. She embodies a balance very familiar, imo, to modern girls/women.

 

These old tales have survived because of their versatility. As society changes over time, so does the meaning we attach to these stories. For this reason they persist, as the new meanings still hold value for us today.

I have been interested in this ancient tale for years and have been part of a multitude of fandoms where it is present and some of these fandoms have investigated it in great depth. One of the more positive and empowering interpretations of this tale I've found convincing was the beast as a metaphor for female sexuality (looking back in history and to some extent even today, I think the reason why it would be likened to something monstrous would be clear?) and growing to feel sympathy and even love for the beast, transforms it into a beautiful prince. Thus embracing your sexuality, something strange and new and often coupled with feelings of guilt, and experiencing it as something good by the end. A very coming-of-age type of thing.

And yes, many versions come with some misogynistic and patriarchal decorations attached... etc... But that core story is empowering and I believe that is why so many people enjoy it so much.

 

I was hooked on Rey in the first scenes that showed her everyday life but quickly lost interest in the character and the movie as a whole when the sitcom kicked off and the character became run of the mill Generic Strong Woman (accent is on Generic, not strong). I would say that between refusing to sell BB8 and the Forceback, the only real character moment, that didn't feel like a GSW checkbox, was this:




But once "two disparate pieces come together" (JJ Abrams), which is the faithful meeting with her shadow/antagonist in the Takodana forest, arguably what the movie was building up to, the story to me became something else, something that actually had a real depth and hook. Before that, I sat through delightfulness, and while I wasn't bored, I knew I wouldn't give it a second watch. But this changed everything because that's where the movie became deep, symbolic and something that we haven't seen before in SW due to a different hero/villain dynamic, not to mention that spectacular show of the flow of the dark and light between the characters when they crossed swords at the cliff. This is also where Rey went from Generic Strong Woman to Strong Woman period, IMO. It's these characters interaction that brought up why her character is unique and it also brought up why his character is unique, or going from Generic Masked Baddie to Most Exciting Villain in recent cinema.

I like the idea that these unlikely characters will bring the balance to the Force. He's unlikely cause he's fallen and therefore written off. She's unlikely because she's just awaken in the Force, so a total newborn so to speak. The best stories are always about the unlikeliest of candidates defying the odds, so here they are.

Lomesa Thank you for expressing in few words what I couldn't in too many! That's exactly what I meant! Great post!

 

Thank you for your insight. I had only a rather vague notion that while customs and mores change over time, human nature remains more or less the same. I am perhaps too literal minded and have trouble at times seeing the metaphors in these stories.

 

hana_solo My reaction to The Force Awakens was very similar to yours. Before that scene on Takonada, I was indifferent to Star Wars. By the end of the interrogation scene, I was hooked. It was I story I knew and loved, but different enough to make me extremely curious about how they would continue to decorate it.

Classified8 Thank you for considering my words. I'm a long-time lurker, but your question was just to interesting too not reply.

 

Lomesa You should definitely post more!

 

Maybe the reason that they appeal to so many people despite being so old and dated is that they are not actually old and dated. Biology is very hard to overcome.

 

Very hard but (hopefully) not impossible. This conversation is starting to remind me of the work of Steven Pinker, the Harvard evolutionary psychologist/cognitive scientist who wrote The Blank Slate: The Modern Denial of Human Nature and The Better Angels of Our Nature: Why Violence Has Declined. Perhaps that struggle is being expressed through the realm of our fantasy fiction. Though I'm not certain violence has declined in the Star Wars galaxy.

 

Tbh, i like KK's vision on rey and kylo's character. Personally, I adore rey. She is everything I was hoping from a leading female character (surprisingly). It's about time they didnt sexualize or romanticize the leading lady. Of course there was finn. But the 2 of them were like 2 lost kids trying to find their place in the universe and becoming best buddies.

And I think the rey-kylo dynamics are going to be the most interesting part of the movie, imho. I dont expect any romance for rey, but if eventually they made her have certain feelings or looks that a bit girlish (for some people), then, as long as it is written in a good story (I have high hope and trust in KK and all SW team) I am totally fine with it.

A strong independent female lead has rights to feel love and as long as it is written properly, it DOESNT make her a weak/poor/stereotype character. Just my 2 cents.

 

nonesuch

Thanks for posting that link cause I've just seen this:

:

The last quote is so interesting to me because I said in another thread that Anakin needed and even wanted to hear "you are a monster" after he killed the Tuskens. He wanted her to know that it was way out of line ("Not just men, but women...and children") but he didn't get that response because the situation was sympathetic for him (mother was killed) and Padme is a sympathetic, compassionate person who loved him.

OTOH, this is one of my favorite scenes. Unlike Padme, Rey has no history with Kylo to hold her back from rightfully calling him a monster, exactly what he needs to hear, and then he beats his wound that bleeds, and bleeding = human. Wonderful symmetry.





You are a monster.







Their scenes are the best, I'm telling you. So much depth.

 

Reylated

 

Dark Horse Ha,ha!

The second one definitely looks like Padme, though I read a really comprehensive attempt to put all production changes in a chronological order, and I never found any evidence that Jedi Killer and Kira were meant to be related. It seems like they had to decide between them which one would be a legacy. I'm talking about the time after the Arndt script overhaul, cause that one was about young Solos and there was no mystery about who they were. But JJ wanted more Luke so they parted ways and the script was overhauled, not just changed, but overhauled.

 

Looks like McCaig, and his "women Jedi/ Sith wear either cocktail dresses or dominatrix outfits" aesthetic.

 

Ha! Must have been inspired but this look sans the scarf, arguably the most WTF of Padme's costumes:

 

I-can-end-up-suffocating-myself-but-they-want-to-make-me-look-sexy costume

 

"We cannot be together Anakin. But let me constantly tease you with sexy/revealing outfits and pseudo-romantic gestures because, funsies."

 

Breathe........ just breathe! (If you can)

 

Padme's costumes betrayed her words.

But Rey doesn't dress really like Padme. The closest was her Han Solo inspired Resistance outfit and the Mustafar Padme outfit.

 

I really, really dislike how Natalie Portman was given tons of random costume changes that made little sense except to perhaps sell dolls or emphasize her value as a prop in the movie.

Padme's character, imo, was fairly unimportant to the PT. Her presence served a purpose, and that was basically it. It was disappointing.

Rey on on the other hand....I like the consistancy of her outfits. Same with Kylo. I wonder if their costumes will slowly evolve in relation to each other.

 

You guys are killing it!

Ok, I'm going off topic for a second because JoJoPenelli you are so right. Costume changes were distracting as was clothing that was inappropriate for the scenes in question. For example, why did she have to wear "belly dancer" outfit in the scene where Anakin finds out that Tuskens abducted Shmi? Like, why sexy clothes for a scene about a tragic news????? FFS, GL!

So, yeah, consistent clothing is great. I also think that changes in clothes will be used as "passage of time" device, cause based on MSW spoilers and teaser, I'd say that TLJ takes place during much longer than just 2 days (TFA, save the end that, according to novelization, had a few days jump).

Yes, their clothes evolve in relation to each other because his under robe is shorter, the same Jedi/Samurai type like her brown tunic. Based on Lumberjack Nick's drawing.

 

It’s not my job to make you a better man and I don’t give a **** if I’ve made you a better man. It’s not a ****ing woman’s job to be consumed and invaded and spat out so that some ****ing man can evolve.

 

I have just read a theory related to the Not to be Discussed topic that has made me smile. At least some fans have imagination.

"Stay here sweeheart, I will come back" is said by and adult Kylo to Rey at the end of TLJ, starting his redemption. She was not remembering the past, she was seeing the future.

 

I hope they steer well clear of Pinker's work, where it touches sex and gender. He makes broad claims that are not well well supported in science, and makes claims of bilogical determinism that are likewise unsupported by most of his peers. He's a smart man, but I am suspicious of him.