ST Kylo Ren and Rey in VIII and IX (See new guidelines on page 228)

People are using JJ's 'Kylo never met Rey' and moving on with it, that is correct 'from a certain point of view'. The novel lends the reader to believe that Kylo knows Rey from somewhere.

I've always felt when they met previously, 'Kylo was Ben and Rey may have had another name'. So JJ is 'technically right' -like Old Ben was.

 

Of course it's way off. Blurry UFO also conveniently omits the scenes of Rey almost getting blown up by a TIE, being completely paralyzed by Kylo in the Takodana forest, and being knocked out by Kylo and imprisoned. One leaves those out because it contradicts the "Mary Sue" characterization. Which is clearly nonsense.

 

Saying that the filmmakers may not have wanted to brutalize their female protagonist (physically anyways - the torture scene is obviously a major mental/emotional violation) isn't remotely the same thing as calling Rey a Mary Sue.

 

you have to really stretch to accuse me of calling rey a mary sue in that post, but you did it lol. in case you didn't know, hollywood has a problem when it comes to brutalizing their female characters, this isn't accusatory in any way, I'm glad this is the route they took. does it hurt to get almost blown up by a tie fighter, did we see her express pain in that scene? I'm sure being paralized by the force and losing consciousness is uncomfortable but it's not the same as being thrown against a tree, which is my point.

Dareth kylo is interested in her because he's curious as to why a scavenger is in the millennium falcon with han solo and the traitor and has seen the map to Luke. in the novelization he keeps asking her if she's really just a scavenger. I think he also feels a pull towards her in the force when he meets her on takodana, and his suspicions are confirmed in the end when he says "It is you" which I take to mean she was the awakening in the force. These aren't necessarily reasons not to be more violent towards her though, especially in the beginning. Throughout this film there are multiple opportunities for Rey to get hurt, but she really isn't until she gets to kylo

 

Naw. I agree with him. The only times Rey gets hurt in TFA is when she is punched in the face by an Unkar thug, who she immediately pummels back. And when Kylo knocked her into a tree.

Also the writers went out of their way to make sure Rey had no blemishes or scars. That in itself isn't bad. After all, for all the OT went through in ANH: Luke, Leia and Han have no visual scars.

However in TFA, when compared with her male co-stars: Finn, Poe, Kylo and Chewie. It's pretty obvious the writers wanted Rey to appear scarless.

 

Or he sees the potential in her. He has never had a peer as an adversary. I may see her worthy of being a peer, and that's why he offered to be her teacher.

And god all mighty, can we dispense with the Mary Sue BS. No, really.

 

Yes, it is just you. I mean anyone can associate any disparate concepts together, doesn't make it objectively true.

Incest is not abuse. And there were incestuous feelings between Luke and Leia, though largely one sided on the part of Luke.

 

Well, fortunately its not the ''I Love Incest And You're Weird For Not Being Okay With It'' thread. So maybe we can move on to the subject of Kylo and Rey.

 

Technically, you're right. But it is very commonly equated to abuse in common discourse and the media.

Considering that Lucas dropped the Luke+Leia thing when he decided they were actually siblings, I don't even consider Luke's attraction to Leia truely canonical, no matter the actual actions onscreen.

It's not like Lucas was deliberately depicting romantic bro/sis love...which is why the OT isn't massively controversial in that regard.

 

ben solo wants to be friends. but kylo ren is a jerk.

 

That should go out the window when Kylo chops her left arm off in viii.

 

There may actually be some truth to that duality.

 

He's a wannabe Vader, right? (1) He knows Snoke is using him to some end as Vader knew Palps did the same. (2) He's found someone with great potential who can team up to knock off Snoke, as Vader discovered the same with respect to Palps. His life is mirroring Vader's, intentionally or not. In both cases, it's an invitation to reframe the confrontation, with a union for some future end in mind. Basically an olive branch, since he was a few seconds from shoving her down a cliff. Or at least that's what it seemed to be, keeping in mind we know nothing about Snoke (maybe he's a total charlatan who could be defeated easily by Kylo as is).

Had the invitation come when he was on the defensive, it could have been viewed as a ploy, given he was not running on full speed. So that's not likely. Another possibility is it could have just been a will-of-the-Force thing that caused him to say the one thing that could've possibly changed the tenor of the duel at that time.

 

Kylo knocks Rey unconscious, picks her up, and then transports her to a prison cell, and that doesn't count as being "hurt?" What is the standard here? Must have bruises and scratches or it doesn't register?

 

Maybe it is rated as appropriate force to achieve targets with slight collateral damage

 

Ha! He also tortures her mind (to the point of clear physical pain) and that doesn't count either, for some reason, despite the fact that torture can be much more painful than getting a bruise or a gash or what have you. There's little that's more annoying than these arbitrary distinctions some people make to justify their established opinions. Just admit that you forgot to include these other examples of Rey getting hurt, and move on.

 

Agreed. It has less to do with the character herself, in theory, than with perception. They might be afraid of a backlash if they have Rey undergo truly extreme physical pain/maiming (yes she does go through tough stuff in TFA, but it's different kinds of tough stuff than others before her).

For example, would Disney allow her to lose a limb, or be permanently physically maimed in some way in TLJ? It happened to both Luke and Anakin in their second movies. Maybe or maybe not, we'll see. But if not, then people will start to wonder if they're afraid.

Again it's less about her character, and more about PR.

 

some don't want to see that there is any light or good in kylo's character and that's why these efforts to explain it away come up despite how the story presented KR as a conflicted character right from the beginning. if there's no light in this person, then there's nothing to be so conflicted over is there? and to explain away every sign of it as being some outside-the-story/unrelated thing that has nothing to do with his character (who even says himself how the light is pulling at him) will certainly help with that circular reasoning loop.

 

i think it also depends if limb losing is meaningful in the story.

in luke's story, vader is quickly presented as more machine than man, and as a warning about what luke could become if he is also seduced by the dark side. luke losing an arm like anakin did puts them at the same starting point (and each take opposite directions after). and this shared thing between them also aids in luke's realization in ROTJ that he is becoming like his father.

so the question for eps. 7-9 is what purpose does severing a limb serve for the story? i can more easily see directions in this with kylo than with rey.

even if one assumes rey to be luke's daughter, losing an arm just like her father and grandfather has to mean something (i would think) rather than being an empty parallel.

the most interesting limb severing scenario i can think of is that they each cut off a limb from the other in the same fight.

 

Well if it is impulsivity the catalyst to loose a limb, Kylo, sweets, you better start saying goodbye to one of your limbs. Because you'll be the one parting company with a body part.

 

I don't think there's a good enough reason for either to lose their limbs save fanservice (it's SW so someone has to). Luke lost his in a very meaningful and symbolic way - since Vader was half-machine, getting a mechanical hand served as a reminder that he could turn like him if he fell to the Dark Side. And, of course, Anakin had to lose his cause Vader was half-machine.

OTOH, it looks like they are going with "monster/human" rather than "half-human/half-machine" so losing limbs wouldn't fit symbolically and narratively. Kylo's scar is super symbolic reminder for both of them cause



a) that's the cheek that his dying father caressed so it's like an imprint into his skin (and I love it that it looks like a tear, eternal grieving)

b) it's a reminder for Rey that she flirted with the Dark Side

That's awesome and while it deals with the same themes as all SW movies, it isn't repetitive in execution.

 

that's so true! though part of the blame is on Deus ex Bactaina.

 

Gotta admit, Kylo looks a little too chill in that pic. In the teaser he looks worse than Anakin when he was about to kill the younglings. Like seriously he looked like he was about to like...idk. He looked really mad, and I loved that. If anything, I wish Anakin looked that insane during his turn.
But in the pic he's like, "Yeah I took a saber to the face. What should I have for lunch? You guys doing anything this weekend?"