ST Mark Hamill (Luke Skywalker) in the ST

Yeah, I think part of Luke's emotional journey has to do with more than Ben's betrayal. I think it's his own personal demons and possibly some other events we're not privy to yet.

quote="JoJoPenelli, post: 54476963, member: 255632"]

If losing Rey was what started Luke down this path of misery and disillusionment (with Kylo's betreyal being the final straw), then what happened to Luke is extremely relevent to Rey's story and will inform not only her relationship with Luke but also what she sees her own place in the galaxy to be going forward.

If the ST's target demo are OT fans and their children, they're hitting it right on the nose...

Dame sans merci

If they heard Luke say that, something was ADR'd over it later. It's something that would be a gigantic spoiler.[/quote]

 

This such a pointless argument. Yes, they could have gone a different way. But they didn't and acting like there is no storytelling merit in the approach they have taken goes against the great traditions of mythic storytelling. So by all means, you don't have to like it, but you'll forgive some of us if we place a little more credit on RJ's storytelling ability than some of the experts here do.

 

I'm not the one who brought it up to begin with. Nor was that about doing it differently. And your arguments are no better, because your putting actions I never said or did, as usual. I never said there is no storytelling merits to what they are doing. I'm criticizing their choices.

Nor am I one of the people who thinks everything RJ has done is gold. I've watched everything he's done and I'm not that impressed. I'll still reserve judgment as each work is different.
I'm not an expert, as far as I see it no one here is. It's all opinions and preferences no has a superior opinion.

 

That's an interesting take.

 

It's rubbish to say all opinions are equal, sorry. Preferences, sure. People like what they like and dislike what they dislike. But the idea that all storytelling know-how is equal in here is just not true.

 

If you think nobody has a superior opinion, why are you talking about what "should" happen, rather than what you would like to happen?

To clarify that I'm not being facetious here, what I mean is that if you accept that no opinion is superior, then surely you have to acknowledge the possibility that what the filmmakers are doing might work just as well as your personal idea

 

well to each their own.

No point in arguing anything with you. We never agree on anything nor do we see eye to eye on anything and we always head butts any time we argue. Never once was a pleasant experience to be honest.


also eh what? It doesn't make a lick of sense the whole should vs like to makes someone's opinion superior. English is my 3rd language and that doesn't make any sense. Seems like you reading what you want to read in other people's posts.

 

I wasn't aware that English was your third language. I don't have a second language at all, so it's incredible to me, the fluency youbcommunicate with. But maybe meet me halfway here - is it possible that the miscommunication here isn't entirely due to me misrepresenting you, but could be partly that when talking in a third language misunderstandings may arise? Because honestly, my take on this amounts to "let's hold fire on condemning choices until we see it on screen" - if you're cool with that, we are on the same page

 

So true! My wife is a college professor, and it's funny sometimes. She emphasizes different literary theories and how must of them reject the idea of objective truth. Some of her students think this means they can make any argument they want, since there is no objective truth, all opinions are valid. She is at pains to remind them that in academics, you still have to make the argument, and provide evidence to support them, Some of her students are flabbergasted that they have to justify their opinions. And yeah, opinions and preferences are not quite the same thing!

 

No.

 

I've touched on this before but something doesn't add up. Leia views her son as troubled and that's why she sent him to Luke. Luke on the other hand views him as the chosen one. Wha? I guess the two things don't have to be mutually exclusive but it's odd that Luke would look at the troubled kid that his sister basically dumped on him and think, "ah ha! This kid has got to be the Chosen One!"

As I suggested before maybe Luke was thinking, "I need a project to get mind off of things. I got it! I'll take this screwed up kid and mold him into then next great Jedi Knight."

 

I also had the same question marks when I 1st read that. Unless they are now considering the novelization obsolete, which in this case means Leia never sent him for that reason.

But if not I agree that Luke seems to have been blinded or distracted by something else for him to be oblivious to Ben.

 

Blinded/distracted AND highly emotionally invested. Hrm!

 

He created a rock band.

 

Being that It looks like a shot clearly of the mold of Mr. Miyagi Training Daniel Son In the Karate Kid,


So I would make a pretty comfortable wager and say Luke Is training Rey In the shot and I don't think that would be a stretch of the imagination....

 

1. I know that the term "Chosen one" has a lot of baggage around here, for good reason, but I almost think that it means, simply, in this case, someone to lead the Jedi once Luke is gone. Someone Luke can trust to take over when he's gone. Out of all his students, he viewed Kylo as the one to lead the new Jedi into a new era. Not necessarily that Kylo is another prophetic embodiment of the Force itself.

2: I think if Leia viewed her son as troubled and needed to be sent to his uncle for help, it's probably because she knows that Luke once saved Anakin and wanted Luke to save her son as well. "Save him Luke, save him from the same destiny that Anakin suffered." Luke on the other hand believes he has an opportunity save the Skywalker legacy as a whole. He managed to redeem his father, and now that act of redemption could continue. Maybe Luke saw the continued redemption of Anakin in physical form as his own nephew, Kylo. A second chance, Anakin never really got to have.

Save Kylo from the path that ruined Anakin. Let him continue the work that Anakin wanted to do. There was an opportunity for the redemption of Anakin to actually play out now. Kylo could have continued on that work.

Of course, that's also a lot to put on someone's shoulders. It's probably worse then being some prophetic chosen one of Jedi lore. And as we see, Kylo is still seduced to the darkside. Or worse, willingly moved towards it. Now warped, thinking he needs to carry on Vader's legacy, not Anakin's.

And that's Luke's failure. That's what makes him question everything and run off to find the first Jedi Temple. Thinking that despite saving and redeeming Anakin, the Skywalker legacy still became corrupted. Maybe he feels that's truly the destiny of his family now. And of the Jedi.

 

Indeed. I think that's how I'm going to chose to interpret the "Chosen One" bit. It works better that way than thinking that Luke is convinced that some Jedi a zillion years ago were writing about some Adam Driver looking dude.

 

From the sounds of it, it seems JJ didn’t have any real reason for why Luke was in exile. It seems to have been nothing then a half-baked idea on his part and he wasn’t all that worried about laying the ground-work for the next films. I enjoyed TFA enough, but thank god the franchise is out of JJ’s hands and in the far more talented Rian Johnson’s. Now if only we could get rid of Trevarrow…

 

It seems more like JJ was asked to write a first act, and RJ was asked to finish it. There's been something behind the scenes that's minimised JJs involvement, but I think he had s direction of sorts in mind

 

starocean90 I agree with a lot of what you've said in the above.

Speaking for myself: I will give Mark my time though since he warmed up to what happened with Luke, then I will look forward to his interpretation of this too frequently used trope, and applaud when he gets out of it.

Recently, I was delighted to discover the same kind of character as Luke, Captain America etc. in a Hong Kong movie and this man never, ever changed his way of thinking or doing things; he fought hard for himself, his students and the community - despite being put through the ringer when the bad guys framed him; that moral unbreakable core never shifted. It was so cool to see that character remain unchanged in a morally unjust world; it was exciting and inspiring to me. I was hoping to see something like this for Luke, because it can be done and not be boring. Obviously, that will not happen.

I understand there are only so many plots and characters you can play with. Ditto for drama with conflict and breaking the hero so he/she can rise up.

I'm just over the downtrodden, depressing, dark voyages for many good characters lately.

The story group will do what they will do; now I leave it in Mark's capable hands to see what he does with it.

 

100%. Lets just hope that Luke's reasoning for exiling himself on AhcH to is because he is legit doing something he feels needs to be done. and that something totally needs to be in character. If luke has legit just given up and wants to be alone on this island planet until Rey shows up and convinces him otherwise, it will be viewed as joke worthy. we know Luke Skywalker. we Know how he thinks, we know what makes him tick. he can grow, he can even change. the man can progress, but it has to remain consistent with his established character. if the guy gave up because he once thought Kylo was the Chosen one, and thus felt guilty and felt responsible, well the Luke i know simply wouldnt bail. that isnt the OT luke. hes some other character. the Luke I know wouldnt give up because a nephew he loves did some awful ****. he certainly wouldnt just stand idle while said evil nephew commits genocide and reigns hell on the galaxy. Luke would do everything in his power to rectify the situation. if he hasnt been rectifying it on AhcH To and simply BEGINS to rectify when Rey arrives, its joke worthy. its just plain poor writing IMO. ill reserve judgement but im still not sold that the written reason for Luke being so unlike himself will be satisfactory.

 

Well, we now know that Mark IS attached to his character Luke Skywalker, we know how he sees Luke. I also heard that Mark had some words with Rian and that they made some changes, therefore I think that we can still recognize Luke. I also have no doubt that Mark will deliver, and remember there is only one Luke Skywalker and that is Mark Hamill.

 

100% agree

 

I said, can't remember which thread, perhaps Mark was speaking figuratively about Ben being the chosen one. Perhaps Luke saw Ben as the heir to, as someone just said, to lead the new jedi. This is a guy who was giddy that Anakin was able to turn back because of love. Why would he question the son of his 2 favorite people. Remember, tge dark side clouds everything. If Yoda couldn't sense Sidious, how could luke sense issues with Ben. I think Ben was already in with Snoke before the official turn
Luke got played.

 

I love KOTOR 2 so I'm always thrilled to see it brought up, but have a problem with that...

Kreia was a villain. And also wrong about the Force. Oh, and she hated it and wanted it to die.

So basically, nothing like Luke.