Lit Which Clone Wars multimedia project did you personally prefer?

Apologies for the double post...

 

The 2002-2005 CW Multimedia project.
Shatterpoint, LOE, Jedi Trial, Yoda Dark Rendezvous, the micro-series, Republic Commando book series, Republic comics, etc.

TCW had its moments but should have been a Dark Times series imo.

 

The 2002-2007 CW multimedia project. It was complete, the one from 2008-2014 is very incomplete and doesn't add anything. In fact, I could do without Mortis and those super force powered individuals, the witches of dathomir and their ability to jump super high, become invisible, and create a cup out of thing air in contrary to what Yoda said in Dark Rendezvous. Most important TCW is still an incomplete series. REbels ties up loose ends that we never got in the show, but regardless it still empty. In fact the new Mace comic kinda sucks. What a droid only interested in hard cash? Nope.

 

But that wasn't the show's fault. It was planned the end and ended due to external factors.

If the first project had been cancelled it would be incomplete too.

 

For me, it isn't even a discussion of TCW being cancelled. It was flawed from the foundation and ultimately a massive downgrade from what was previously done in many of the Clone Wars novels, the miniseries and many of the major Dark Horse publications like Prelude to the Rebellion and Republic. Sure, there are individual episodes of it that are good but taken as a whole, it genuinely sucks.

 

I prefer the second project, the first was hobbled by having the microseries at it's centre. The story of that series was limited by the stories being cut up into little parts, and had little meaty content. The art style is also very offputting to me, the simplistic backgrounds and stylised characters don't mesh well with the highly detailed films, and the over-exaggerated action just feels cheesy and ill-defined.

The newer series feels much more in line with the films (though I can see why some would prefer a more distinct take). The series gradually matured with it's audience over time, tying in it's arcs together. There's nothing really like that in the original, where Durge and Ventress just vanish halfway through (although I think they were resolved in the comics? I'm not sure, the first project was less centred in a single medium, which makes following it these days a lot more complex for a casual fan of it). I thought it's portrayal of the clones, arguably the heart of the war, was a massive improvement from the soulless OP drones in the original. This series gives time to characterise them, to give them varying personalities, while exploring the conflicts of their duty. There was also a delightfully doom laden tone to lots of the show, given the known end-point of Order 66. I also think Ahsoka is one of the best leads SW has, though I can understand why she can appear shoehorned into Anakin's arc retroactively. She made up for it to me by having a very distinct spark, and going through genuinely affecting stories. The series also fleshed out the ramifications of the war beyond the simple logistics of the conflict, delving in to the new opportunities for crime, the new force sects, Padme's occasional political tale (compared to her rather extraneous appearance on Illum in the original). The show had a lot variety too, by being an anthology it could cover a lot of different styles and tones. A dark exploration of the war's effects on the clones, juxtaposed with a wacky droids homage based on Gulliver's Travels, for example.

 

Read Republic.

 

So which was it?

But seriously, criticizing the Tartakovsky cartoon for having a distinct art style, reused characters, simplistic backgrounds (which I don't even agree with, but whatever), characters who disappear or are unresolved,* and not leading up to Order 66* is fine... but not if you're going to then claim that TCW avoided all of those when it does the same, if in different ways.

*You're criticizing the Tartakovsky show for doing this with Durge and Ventress... when TCW does this with Barriss, Ahsoka, and yes, Ventress too?

**And really, saying that TCW lead into ROTS better than the Tartakovsky show is crazy, given that only one of those shows literally leads directly into ROTS, and it's not Filoni's.

 

Ahsoka and Ventress had definitive endings planned, but were axed and ported the later mediums, Dark Disciple and I suppose Rebels (though I felt Ahsoka's role there was minimal). Same with Maul. There stories didn't end, they were cut off.

I just think the style of the microseries doesn't appeal to me. I know that's largely subjective, but the stylised nature of the action and characters doesn't feel like it meshed with ROTS very well. Sure, it may have lead directly in the story, in pure narrative terms, but it didn't feel connected to any of the PT's themes. Anakin gets an ok arc in the first half, but in the second half it feels weirdly disconnected from anything he goes through in the films. The arcs he had regarding it in TCW, such as the Clovis and Wrong Jedi arcs sowed seeds that could be paid off in ROTS, or further down the line (like establishing a relationship with Tarkin).

Sure, TCW at times diverged from the central conflict, Maul and Mandalore being the most obvious examples. But even they were absolutely tied back to it. The criminal underworlds set up throughout the series exist in the gaps left by the war, Maul essentially uses this narrative dead space to hide in, exploiting the oversights of both the Jedi and Sith. And it was leading to tying up even more of the story, linking Ahsoka and Rex in with the arc in the later unfinished seasons (that we sadly haven't got to see yet).

And yes, the first project did seem to branch off into books and comics more than TCW, which was primarily carried by the show. But the microseries is still the most central part, that's just the visual dominance of SW as a franchise. It started in a visual medium, so the visual component just gravitates to the centre. It's the part that links up with ROTS, that introduces Grievous, the introduces Ventress. It has a heft the other parts don't by dint of that.

 

I really didn't like the Clone Wars miniseries' animation and I found the stories lacking depth, especially the earliest episodes, it got a little better toward the end though and I liked Anakin and Padme scenes. I thought the miniseries greatly over-exaggerated the Jedi's powers not unlike Force Unleashed, in that case TCW did a much better job to show how the Jedi were not like superheros who can take armies of droids by themselves and that they have limits and to show they have weaknesses. I liked the Clone Wars comic series but it was a while since I last read it there were some great storylines with Aayla, the battle of Jabiim for examples and then I absolutely loved the second Clone Wars series with its so many diversified stories; even the ones some consider to be "fillers". I'm not the biggest fan of the clonetroopers but it really explored them as three-dimensional characters compared to the other two. I also think Anakin having an apprentice is not far-fetched, and yes sometimes I found her to be annoying or not needed in a story and I think Filoni is a little too protective of her sometimes but she slowly grew on me.

 

I disagree with that to an extent. Ventress was much bigger than just the microseries --- when she showed up in The Cestus Deception or in a Dark Horse comic, it wasn't "Hey, it's that character from the microseries," it was more just "Hey, it's Ventress!" And Grievous was more closely tied to Episode III than anything else and was never a microseries character --- seeing him in Obsession didn't bring the microseries to mind at all.

When I look back at the original CW multimedia project, things like Labyrinth of Evil and Republic come to mind before the microseries does. Granted that's subjective and I'm coming at it from the lens of an EU fan, and the microseries was more accessible to a casual fan, but from '02 to '05 it really felt like they were pushing every part of that project as equally essential.

 

Ah, fair enough. I will admit to not having delved into the books and comics from that period. I don't read many SW books or comics in general, even less so from a period I'm already pre-disposed against.

 

I mean, I'm not saying that that's a good thing, it's just that most casual fans simply gravitate towards to the visual parts of SW. It's why each film is a massively hyped event, but the books just come out like clockwork with minor fanfare.

It's the same with Doctor Who, the tv show just happens to be more important than the books, comics, and audios (and I find it very sad that there's almost no SW full cast audio dramas), because it originate the whole thing.

With something like Harry Potter or LOTR, the movies and books are almost equal in terms of importance, with most casual fans preferring the visual medium, as it just requires less work to parse than a book does.

 

The idea that the microseries was the central component of OG Clone Wars makes no sense. It was neato and a lot of people saw it, but it was never intended to carry the weight of the Clone Wars narrative. It was designed to be a handful of couple-minute shorts that looked cool and could give utterly casual fans a sort of shorthand glimpse of the war. It was never designed to tell a big story. You can tell because it was designed to run A COUPLE MINUTES AT A TIME. You’re putting something on it that it never was.

You can say that the original Clone Wars lacked a single central narrative, and that’s fair — though I’d point out TCW never managed to do much of anything in that department either. The comics are probably the closest thing to a core for the era, but they’re imperfect at that. But it’s silly to say that it had a core, that core had to be the microseries, and therefore the era failed because the microseries wasn’t what it was never supposed to be.

 

OG CW by a long shot.

-OG CW was quite unified as far as I've gone. The comics and animated show fill in eachother's blind spots quite well. Overall it fills in the entire AOTC-ROTS gap. It had purpose. Awesome stuff happened. Great characters were introduced and their stories were completed throughout the run. You don't have questions about, say, Ventress. You meet her at the start of her story and you see it till the end. CW has great art and fighting sequences. The story is pretty light but you learn all the info you need for ROTS. It never feels excessive. The characters are very consistent with their film counterparts. The comics certainly have your Anakin and Obi-Wan stuff but alot of it is just seeing the other parts of the war. The conflict feels huge. Don't even get me started on how cool Saleucami was. Or Grievous. Or the Muunislist 10. Or the Battle of Kamino. I could keep going.

-TCW is a trainwreck. From it's inception it was pointless. CW filled in the film's gaps with concrete. TCW carelessly pours a different mixture on top of the existing foundation. WE DIDN'T NEED IT. It contradicts stuff for no reason. It's also unoriginal. It steals the battle of Kamino. It steals the battle of Mon Calamari. It's clone troopers are a sad imitation of Traviss' troopers. It has a dozen battles of Felucia for no reason. Chewie shows up for no reason (Rebels does crap like this way worse though.). It contradicts the gosh dang films for god's sake. Greivous meets Anakin for the first time in ROTS? Nevermind that! Filoni can't be bothered to watch the films I guess. It's just a bunch of fluff. Anakin is a different character. Anakin having a padawan between the two films is just insulting. It goes on for seven seasons with no end in sight and doesn't lead into III. It wasn't that great of a multiverse. It was impressive how skillfully it wrecked the previous universe, though. It's an enjoyable show don't get me wrong, but it never should have existed and it surely shouldn't have been canon.

 

The one where I made a timeline that makes them both (mostly) fit, thank you very much.

 

When did Anakin and Grievous meet in TCW?



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Was it that episode with the Gungans? Well, technically Anakin was unconscious, but Grievous was such a villain of the week, he was mostly a joke anyway. Like Obi-wan fought Grievous at least twice I can think of, which makes their Utapau duel a lot less important. "I'll defeat you this time, Grievous, ninth time's the charm!" I know the four-arms thing is not a surprise anymore, but I think the older stuff kept Grievous and Dooku as more distant villains compared to all the times they showed up on TCW.

I remember that Iridonia thing now that you mention it. Tying Maul and Ventress and the Nightsisters all together felt pointless, but that's TCW for you. Even in episodes like the Citadel, an off-hand comment from Anakin about this being his first time carbon frozen throws out that TCW comic (which had already used the "sneak past sensors with carbon freezing" trick earlier). It felt like they did it on purpose to mess things up sometimes (probably not, but still).

 

Nobody145
Evan Piell died twice. Adi Galia died twice. They must've contradicted stuff for fun.
Also Grievous was built up perfectly in CW. He appears twice and slaughters on both occasions. When you see him in ROTS you know he means business. Contrast that with TCW and he's a comic book villain.

 

First one no contest.

the first cartoon sold the war better then the second.

The Clone Wars game felt more like a Star Wars movie then anything else.

Grivous was made a threat in OG CW not in the new ones.



Also (and this is a big thing for me) the good guy lost in the first Clone Wars. They suffered defeats and set backs and sometimes they suffered a lot to win. I can only think of one example in all the new one where that happens (the Maul stuff and maybe the clone chip stuff). Also the brain washing chips are stupid and pointless. The Clones obey orders, they are ordered to kill the jedi so they obey, seems simple enough to me.

 

I happen to take the first Clone Wars Miniseries as possible canon, at least in regards to Ventress' introduction and Grievous' slaughter of Jedi on Hypori (actually referenced in Catalyst). Anakin's knighting as well and I love seeing Voolvif Monn because I was like 13 and I voted for him to appear .

 

I don't get this disconnect with Grievous in TCW. In the microseries, yes, he was silent, basically unstoppable, and intimidating. In ROTS however, he's exactly the cheesy, over-the-top villain the film needs. That's his exact role in the story, to be the pathetic decoy villain Palpatine uses to distract everyone (in that regards, his microseries appearances wowing everyone could be seen as going exactly as planned). In ROTS, he lets his droids do most of the fighting, unless he can get a one-on-one duel. He cheats with exaggerated style over substance attacks, and is easily routed by a single force user. In unarmed combat he can hold his own due to his enhancements, but it's his organic core that's his weakness. They don't even hint at him being anything other than a robot in CW (again, it was probably in the novels or comics).

I mean, Grievous is the kind of guy who has an escape route and wheelbike set up before he even knows Kenobi is coming. One gets the impression he does this sort of thing a lot.

I don't know why the microseries and the films had so little cohesion on this. Did Lucas just send the rough designs and concepts to Tartavosky, despite adding more to him after that? I'm curious if anyone knows if it's as simple as that.

 

It's likely that early in the war he was a reckless cavalier who went up against six or seven Jedi at once because they were exhausted and/or injured from their crash landings and chases. It's likely that as the war continued and he came up against more skilled Jedi like Obi-Wan and Kit Fisto, maybe even Mace Windu, it's likely that Dooku forced him to retreat if the fight wasn't to his advantage, which rarely seemed to be throughout most of TCW. Don't forget his table in his lair, those Jedi faced him and clearly didn't come out of it alive. He's skilled, we just don't see his victories often.

 

It wasn't just Genndy --- the Grievous we saw in Obsession and Labyrinth of Evil was also a bad-ass who would march right up to a group of Jedi and kill them all without a second thought. Not sure how the disconnect with the film happened, but dammit, it was the Grievous who should have been in the film.

Preach. It had such a scant ongoing narrative and was just season after season of adventure-of-the-week. Look at Season 5 --- it was truly awful storytelling across five four-episode arcs that had no business being four-episode arcs and wasted so much damn time doing nothing. And then suddenly the series was over and Maul was still alive, Eeth Koth was still alive, Ventress was still out and about, the Outer Rim Sieges hadn't started, and zero progress had been made.

It truly is amazing that the version of the Clone Wars that was made after the fact and with hindsight is the one that goes nowhere, doesn't have a coherent narrative, contradicts the movies, and doesn't lead into Episode III.

 

And despite how much The Galactic Atlas tries, the final 6 episodes of Season 5 and all of Lost Missions (Season 6) don't fall into the last five months of the war. Pablo Hidalgo said (and I concur as I create timelines and spread them over) that there was more then a year left to go (which fits in Season 7 and 8). If anything, I count CW Volume II as being post-S6 (with Crystal Crisis on Utapau (not as bad as I thought), Bad Batch (not as bad as I thought), Son of Dathomir (bad but okay ) and (sigh) Dark Disciple (still just Dooku being evil for lulz not moving story along really) happening over this final year), with the Nelvaan adventure actually happening non-concurrent to what happens on screen, thus fitting in Siege of Mandalore. In the midst of this, Siege of Saleucami occurs and Rancisis and Koth are among the casualties and Billaba stays off the Council permanently, thus opening the vacancies for ROTS. Foul Moudama and Roron Corobb still buy it at Coruscant failing to protect the Chancellor.