ST George Lucas created the exiled Luke on Ach-To idea

i can cure every illness known to men if you give me 10,000 new born's.Should i save the world?"How" is important to some people.If i may misqoute Yoda "should or should not,there is no how".None the less Luke's death served the story as the story had been set up in TFA and their was not many ways to go with him from that point on.Luke died as he lived,with out a fight.

 

@darth-skycrawler Please combine replies rather than stacking posts back-to-back.

 

For a Jedi to die is an illusion, they can become join with the Force and become more powerful. To "kill off" Luke would've been a traditional trope to allow the heroine to be forced to stand on her own two feet. Then when we see they can the guide can return and advises them, just as Obi-Wan did with Luke.

Only Rey has had to stand on her own two feet from day one, she's never been dependent on anyone else. GL also had how elderly Obi-Wan wasn't as strong as he was when he was younger but we saw the elderly Dooku and Palpatine every bit as powerful. That could can be explained by the fact that the Dark Side enables older people to stay stronger and that is something I think GL may have come up with.

So GL's Luke Skywalker would in all likelihood meet Kira, train her a little, duel with Kylo and be killed, then return as a ghost to advise her and finally introduce a former student of his to complete her training.

Yes it is a major failing, go back a generation and the 40 and 50 somethings tend to say the generation that fought and lived through WWII was the greatest.

 

Does this make Rey Kathleen or Filoni?

 

The thing is Yoda, Mace and Qui Gon were pretty powerful too. Qui Go and Mace must have been in their early 50s, I know Qui Gon's age was brought down. Obi Wan was only 57. It's hard to say how much weaker Obi Wan was, because he never really had to go all out. He used the force in subtle ways to easily accomplish everything he wanted. Then when he faced Vader, he didn't plan on getting out alive and I am not sure even in his prime Obi Wan had any chance of making it out of there. I do think it was a missed opportunity to not have a more physically damaged Obi Wan after the ROTS duel.

I agree with your concept about Luke and Kira. I could see the first episode going something like this.

Spoiler

I don't think the ST needed to be set so far into the future. I think there are two routes they could have gone. Set the trilogy 50 years post ROTJ. Luke is aging and close to death. The galaxy is peaceful, but pro Vader groups are on the rise. Finn could be a member of this group. Rey is the same, has adventures meets Han and joins the academy. Ben Solo is galaxy royalty. He is a great hero and is worshiped by these groups.They say things were better under the empire. Military commanders in particular study Vader's tactics and start to look up to him. Snoke is an old Palpatine advisor and leader of the group. Snoke has lots of Sith artifacts and books to offer Ben. Military coup puts the very conflicted Ben in charge. Ben brutally puts down the people. Finn runs away and tries to leave. Luke, Han and Leia talk about what's gone on. Maybe Finn tells them of the plan to bomb the Jedi academy. Han and hot shot pilot go on mission to save students. Luke goes to turn Ben back. Luke confronts him, they have an epic fight. Leia comes out of political retirement to lead resistance. Han and Poe save students. Meanwhile, Luke is getting tired. Mention of if he was younger he might have won. During the duel, Ben puts thousands of people in danger, Luke stops to save them, whilst distracted gets killed. Gives a great dying speech. Han, Leia, Finn, Rey, Poe, students hear the speech from the force. End of first film.

 

Not at all. I just clarified that him holding the FO off was not an illusion, since he did actually hold them off. He used an illusion to fool the FO into thinking he was physically there, but no one can seriously argue that he didn’t really hold them off. He really did keep them occupied. That’s not an illusion.

I’m talking about this specific case. The fact that he saved the rebellion is more important than the question of whether or not he was physically there.

 

I don't know, I think Snoke being such a mysterious character works even if it wasn't ever fully realised. He is always the manipulator and offers the hook to Ben, who has grown more and more interested in his grandfather and the decisions he made and people who betrayed him. I think ultimately the old feelings of jealousy and greed for power surface and allow Snoke to convert Ben. Add to that the abandonment he feels as his parents split and live in different worlds, none of which are where a Padawan can inhabit.

You also have Palpatine, whilst he's still dead and won't be returning I think GL would envision a contingency plan should he and Vader be killed. That plan could be Snoke and it might take it until the 3rd film for the revelation.

I wonder if GL would've had Leia as a Jedi, Luke's first student. May be it would've been kept secret until either the end of the first film or the beginning of the 2nd,

Spoiler

I think the that would've led to a Leia - Ben showdown right at the very end of the 3rd film as it seemed it was planned

. Having Leia not graduate as a Jedi, instead returning to political matters, only for Luke to tell her that she had already passed the test as it was always a test of character and not ability.

 

I never understood why Leia is never portrayed as Luke's equal and a jedi master in her own right. ROTJ heavily implies he would train her. He tells her "you are wrong Leia; you have that power too and in time you will learn to use it."

Looking at the way these films have gone so far, I wouldn't be surprised if we were supposed to have a Kylo vs Leia fight. Apart from Rey she is the only other person whom he can't kill.

The other option they could have gone with Ben is make him not as powerful as the previous generation of Skywalkers. They could make Rey, another student constantly outshine him. Luke could be too harsh on Ben, whilst lavishing praise on Rey. The jealousy and anger of seeing a nobody be better than Vader's heir could drive Ben to Snoke.

 

I just think its more fitting to her character that she would want to stay in the political arena. In the OT you couldn't imagine her ever becoming a fully-fledged Jedi. I think the way she's turned out in the ST is the way Lucas would have handled her.

Ironically, I think TLJ is probably more like what a Lucas-ST would have ended up looking like. At least more so than TFA. I wonder if he prefers TLJ to TFA?

 

That was my thinking too. Unfortuantely we’ll probably never find out.

 

IIRC, Michael Arndt's early drafts were discarded in favor of JJ/Kasdan approach which gave bigger roles to the OT stars. I think many of the turning points in Episode VIII (Luke getting killed off, marginalization of R2D2/C3PO, let the past die) could be informed by those early drafts. Just a thought.

 

If you know what the drafts contained... As far as I can tell, Mark Hamill really liked what they had in store for Luke Skywalker under Lucas' vision. This is in contrast to what he said about RJ.

 

This feels like an effort to shift blame for the unpopular ideas in TLJ over to George Lucas instead of the actual principals on the film. I don't buy for one moment that GL would have put Luke in the position of considering killing his defenseless nephew. Training new Jedi to defend the New Republic he fought to create? Sure. It's even believable that he would want to train away from the core worlds of the NR to avoid corruption, and that he challenge the teachings of the old Jedi order. But abandoning Han, Leia and the galaxy to a turned student? That's not GL's M.O. We've all seen enough over two trilogies to know that.

Disney/Lucasfilm wanted to go in their own direction. TLJ is their baby for better or worse.

 

Which I think you need a full movie to do. I can see the reasoning for both Abrams and Lucas, but I think you make a smoother transition if you have the Big Three prominent in Episode 7.

You use Episode 7 to pass the torch to Rey (and the others), and then have Luke take progressively more of a backseat, even killing him off in 8 like they did. But it's an easier pill to swallow if you bring him back into the fold in Episode 7 in a more positive way.

 

He liked RJ’s cerstion.

 

I'd say leave him alive, but yes, less prominence. I always hated the, you have to kill the old hero to make the new one stand out.

More positive, yes. I get the cynical out look. I have to wonder if Lucaus would have done the ST first would it have been better recived?

 

And what were the complaints about Luke's direction that Mark Hamill had? Or him wishing that Disney should have taken Lucas' original treatment? He states that he was wrong about TLJ but how given what he had said before, it's could easily be PR damage control.

 

After Episode 9, I really hope we get GL's sequel trilogy treatments in book form (we should because the book would sell). That is no reflection on my opinions about the quality of TFA/TLJ, just interest in where he would have taken things. Similar to how books like the Annotated Screenplays of the OT reveal the development of the story/characters (and what concepts from the original SW were later incorporated/recycled into the prequels).

Because much has been said about it, I'll offer my two cents on the characterization of Luke (so far). TFA gave him one of the most epic introductions/setups of all time while cleverly giving the film breathing room to introduce all of the new characters. By the time Rey shows up on the island and "the Jedi Steps" is blaring, we are rooting for her. To me, TLJ ultimately gives Luke Skywalker a truly special and unique role. His physical death is far better than QGJ, Obi-Wan, Yoda, Palpatine or Anakin. It is an extension of his decision to throw the lightsaber on the second death star and appeal to his father's love (rather than attempt to strike down Palpatine himself). Here, we literally have him toss another saber. And the way he bests Kylo Ren is by tricking him without having to ever pick up a saber (the ultimate Jedi mind trick). His approach is reminiscent of Yoda's comment about "war is not to make one great..." He has become something larger than a warrior with a laser sword.
To me, TLJ made him complex and interesting. Becoming one with the Force and at peace before two setting suns is exactly how Luke should go out.

To those upset that Luke is physically dead--his role is not yet over. As Yoda famously said--"luminous beings are we, not this crude matter"

 

Speculation, not fact.

 

That article was speculating that Luke needed to get away because of darkness... I’m taking it as he sensed it building around him and he had to deal with it in a contained environment.

Not that he thought about murdering his nephew in his sleep, abandoning his friends and family, and being a broken ‘woe is me’ person who abandoned the force....

Big difference......

 

Nothing about George wanting Luke to hold a lightsaber over his nephew though. I've said it before and I'll say it again, an in-seclusion Luke is not what bothered me, it was his actions as a character that did that.

 

Here's what the book actually said.

 

Sounds like Luke is having a mid-life crisis in GL's version.

 

So... it wasn’t GL’s idea?