ST Rey & Kylo Ren in Episode IX

I can buy that.

Personally I think Kylo can’t be redeemed until whatever’s been driving his darkness is resolved. I think that the information has been withheld thus far, which doesn’t make me happy, as I think explaining/showing some sort of understandable underlying drama/pain/etc would help humanize him. Right now, his *apparent* motivations for being evil are as hazy as any standard villain’s. But there’s more.

Why couldn’t Han get through to him? Why couldn’t Rey?

Right now, to me, Kylo’s core is still ???

 

Star-Crossed lovers never really end well

 

true but they are still lovers!

I don't know whether Rey and Kylo romance in IX will be tragic, comic, tragi-comic, etc. Just that it's ST's main romance.

 

For me at least I just refer to him as Ben because I refuse to give him any power with that name of his. He is Ben Solo, that is who he is. Regardless of how much he wants to be a Kylo Ren, he's still Ben Solo. To me it's very much like the idea of the shinto and Buddhist beliefs where a name can have a deeper meaning by the True name. Also this ties into the Celtic lore that Rian seemed to be pushing as well with this story.

As for the saber, he wasn't called by Anakin/Luke's saber, he was trying to pull it to him and Rey pulled it back as she is the true owner. She found the saber, it called to her, much like Arthur was called to by the sword in the stone. So there is no connection to him with that saber, it's all connected to Rey. He just wants it because he thinks it's his right to have it, and he broke it rather then allowing her to keep it, as is her right. Much like, again, the issue with Mordred and Galahad in Arthurian legends.

So I was looking at the Last Jedi art book, and in it there was a picture with the concepts for Kids at the temple. Among the kids was a girl who had a blue light saber. This I think is the key here. Blue crystals are, by cannon defintion, one of the easiest to find and use. This would mean that, probably, Ben and the other students got basic sabers with blue crystals in them, and eventually he modified his and changed the crystal.

Yeah, never a good idea. This is especially true in Japanese stories which I think a good portion of the stories are based on.

 

I do not see it being comic and just to be clear I do not see it at all.

 

I cannot speak for @vaderito, but a comedy does not always mean silly funny (like slap stick comedy). It could be a Shakespearean comedy, meaning a story with a happy ending (a marriage) rather than a tragic ending (death).

 

John Williams uses the same intervals in all three themes.

Intervals are extremely important in music and chosen with care. An interval is the distance between two pitches and certain intervals have been used and so engrained in the human psyche that there's a psychology behind it (look up "the devil's interval" and you'll see what I mean).

So JW uses a sixth and a third for the first three notes of Anidala. In this key signature it'd be E-C-A.
Rey's theme is up a third, down a sixth. So as you can see, it's the same set of intervals in reverse order: A-C-E.

Someone on tumblr wrote it out and I kept the images because they're accurate.

credit for pictures: reyloismyotpandiamtrash on tumblr

...by the way, Kylo has Anidala theme/Rey's notes in the middle of his motif^^^^ as you can see above

 

And yet, no love theme in TLJ. If there was supposed to be romantic subtext somewhere, no one told John Williams...

 

Pretty much how I look at it. If there is supposed to be love between them then would they not get a theme?

 

Yet the Force theme

I'm really interested how he brings them together in his IX score. Will we get a fight sequence (likely), but will we get a Ben and Rey's theme that is entirely different. I would love for it to incorporate the Force leitmotif as the force story itself could very well be the love story. I think that is why the Force theme was so powerful for me when they were touching hands. It is usually a theme calling a force user to action where he/she finds purpose. But in this case, the Force theme was drawing Kylo and Rey toegether.

 

Yes. They were connecting through the Force.

But the Force theme is not and never has been a love theme.

@Jedi Knight Fett

Yes. If there’s romance, or romantic subtext, Williams indicates that musically. Which he didn’t in TLJ (or TFA, for that matter).

 

But their connection would not be just romance, there is so much more to it than that. That “more” is the Force. They are connected in the Force. The Force seems to want them together. None of the prior romances in the saga ever had anything to do with the Force. So if Rey and Kylo do end up with a realized romance (and I believe the foundation is there), theirs would be the most powerful romance we have seen in the saga.

 

Oh I can't wait to hear what he writes for them in IX. My jaw dropped to the floor when I heard the Force Theme play over their physical touch. Like, brilliant job Mr. Williams. Definitely got the point across

 

Maybe something in Ep 9, who knows.

But as of now, no intended romantic subtext. Or we would have heard it. That’s how John Williams operates.

 

Now I cannot stop thinking about the force holding a Kylo action figure and a Rey action figure and going “now kiss”.

 

Did you see the clip from the Stephen Colbert show where Adam Driver and Colbert did just that: made Kylo and Rey action figures kiss. I think the clip was previously posted in this thread. I would post it again, but I do not have it. Perhaps someone here does.

 

But you're kind of missing the point of what @xyloren is saying. There is this brief sequence which is musically the mirror image of a Padme/Anakin sequence in that above graphic.

Musicians have long used mirrored music to create a bigger body of work. Mozart himself famously wrote mirrored violin duets where there was one sheet a paper where one would play the page like you normal would and the other would play simultaneously but would read the composition upside down.

And it appears that Williams blended some of the themes that way in a very subtle manner that you really only get a sense of if you sit down and read the notes.

I think he is setting the foundation of a kylo and rey theme with the Padme/Anakin mirrored within it. The music geek here is quite intrigued. Makes me wonder what else Williams has done. Would love to see more of the score if that is the case.

 

Yep Ivsaw that. You guys must have freaked out over that.

 

I did find it humorous.

 

Last I heard, star-crossed romances in movies are doing great.

 

Huh, oddly enough I recently saw someone make the argument that since the score plays in Rey & Kylo's last Force bond, & they claimed that all the other convos were silent, that meant it was the end of their Force communications.... Yet the Force theme played while they were touching hands?

 

Good catch! Perhaps a clue that Snoke’s claim of creating the link was a lie; it was actually the Force.

 

Excellent post Birk! You're right on, that's exactly what he's doing. Can't wait to hear their theme for IX, I'm sure it'll be beautiful.

 

It's amazing how often dirtbags plagiarize things. would not be surprised one bit if the Snoke didn't interfere with a preexisting bond, hoping he could manipulate it once it grew.

 

I mean some of those films have the lovers die.