Full Series Rebels 4.13 - A World Between Worlds - Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

Where does it say officially that she should be dead? That Ezra saving her wasn't part of the closed loop?

 

I really enjoyed these 2 episodes which surprised me since I wasn't the biggest fan of Mortis in TCW. I admit some of the time stuff went over my head but since Ahsoka is back now I don't mind it too much.

My only question is how was Palpatine able to get at Ezra and Ahsoka through the portal? In TCW we saw him use magic to attack Yoda on Moraband but he needed Dooku and his connection to Yoda to do it so how did he do it here?

 

There's a difference between changing things and creating a time travel paradox. If Ezra saved Ahsoka without time travel, (by being there at that time in the flesh and saving her), then Ahsoka would be "changing the natural order of events" by being alive when she "should have died". But there's no time travel paradox there.

Just like in this case, there's no time travel paradox with her showing up after she's been saved through the portal. As long as she wasn't interacting with anyone she'd be fine.

Exactly - in Twilight of the Apprentice we saw her walking back to the temple, which we now know was AFTER she'd been saved by Ezra and left the portal. The time travel loop is closed here.

I think the situation was different because Yoda wasn't in that portal between worlds like Ezra was in this Rebels episode. He was just in an area strong with the dark side, and Palpatine was able to connect with him through Dooku's connection to his former master.

 

that's the problem with time travel, if you screw up you're basically creating an alternate reality.

 

Maybe by the death of Mother Talzin he was able to absorb her power? Just a hunch.

 

So am I kinda correct in saying Ahsoka's Owl friend is the spirt of the Daughter? I picked up that she owns her life and well the sister did give her final strength to Ahsoka back in TCW.

 

One of the characters brought up that suggestion in the first episode last night; when looking at the painting. The Convor is resting on The Daughter's shoulder.

 

Rebels certainly is going out on a high. These last few episodes have been some of the most dramatic and best in the series. And looking at the finale preview and the buildup it definitely seems like it's going to be something. These episodes definitely were a showcase of that as it felt like a celebration of not just the series but also Star Wars as a whole with the reverence it had for the mythology but also hearing the various voices from throughout the films and shows. And now that we're bringing back a lot of old characters it does feel like we're celebrating the series as a whole. It's reminding me of the the Avatar TLA finale in that respect. All the voices are listed on the Wookieepedia page by the way. It seems Chirrut was in there was well somewhere which nobody has caught. I didn't either. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/A_World_Between_Worlds

As for how I felt about the last two given I didn't comment on them because I never got around too doing so? Well it kind of ties into my feelings here regarding Kanan's fate and final sendoff. That it was a heroic, emotional and true goodbye to a character we've seen go through a journey these past four seasons and now his journey has ended and honestly I'm glad it has ended this way and I couldn't think of a better way to do so. While I kind of wish Ahsoka got a similar sort of sendoff if one of them has to live I suppose I'll take her since Kanan's end was so good him suddenly being rescued would feel cheap and I think they know that so I'm not expecting her to save Kanan herself once she's returned to her point in time.

Like Ahsoka said and Ezra learned it's the last lesson. The lesson of acceptance and letting go that no matter how much you care for this person and you will miss them in the end we can't always change fate and that we need to let go sometime is a thing that many have to go through and has been a part of Star Wars. Anakin couldn't let go and his vulnerability was among one of many things the Emperor used to corrupt him. You could also see it in Rey and how she didn't want to accept a truth she always knew about herself. In the end Kanan had to complete the mission to protect others and rectify his mistake on Malachor. Like Gandalf he couldn't leave until his task was done and now it is. He can pass on now knowing his apprentice and his love will do him proud. That ghost of Kanan appearing alongside Hera was pretty heartbreaking and her journey to accepting Kanan's loss was well done character development. The performances in these episodes have been pretty good overall but I got to give special mention to Taylor Grey, Vanessa Marshall and Freddie Prince Jr. in particular. Some of their best work in the show.

As someone who went through the loss of a parent myself the way Kanan's death and goodbye was handled in someways has meant a bit more to me as I see what the characters are going through in my own life. Again as a sendoff it was well done and the final goodbyes by Hera and Ezra were perfect with the last shot of Ezra saying goodbye to the wolf we assume is Kanan being beautifully animated helped by Kiner's score. The journey of the fallen knight has come to a close it seems. Caleb Dume. Kanan Jarrus. Goodbye.

Talking about the more mind bending stuff I liked the expansion on the Mortis stuff and how it relates to Lothal. Interesting that they are being considered as something more than what we knew them as which you could say we suspected already but to have them now be considered straight up Gods that could be worshiped is interesting. I kind of wonder was Lothal they're original home or was the planet they live on in Clone Wars they came too because they saw it as Qui-Gon said as another nexus point to expand and control their power. Not to mention we know they died or they at least appeared too so it's interesting that despite being so called Gods they can die. Maybe they're Gods in the way Odin said the Asgardians were Gods in the MCU that they can live for a long time but are capable of dying and aren't entirely immortal? Who knows but it seems the Daughter (or Moirai I guess. Did Ahsoka learn her name when she was connected with her? I wonder if the Father and Son had names?) has either been reincarnated in the form of the bird or she transferred her spirit into it after her physical death.

Now the big thing to debate about is how the world between worlds operates and whether time travel is as easy as it appears? I imagine it isn't and whatever we see only appears if necessary and what had to happen. Ezra rescuing Ahsoka was the work of the Force and maybe Kanan but Ezra's temptation of rescuing Kanan I don't think was real. Granted Alex from Star Wars Explained proposed this theory but I agree with it that the Emperor used his Sith magic to tempt Ezra into rescuing Kanan but in reality if Ezra had gone through the Emperor would have immediately captured him. You can also wonder why the Emperor was unable to get through or had great difficulty my guess is the Dark Side was unable to access it as easy as someone who believed in the light. The Emperor was utilising the same magic he did to appear to Yoda in Season 6 of Clone Wars which I imagine takes a lot out of him and if he got a hold of Ezra he could have maybe used him as a vessel of some kind to get there ("Ezra show me the way! Help me!" Also like that the "Help me!" was delivered similarily to how he said it to Anakin).

However the time travel comes with a cost and could only be accessed I imagine through a temple that had this gateway and now that it's gone I don't think it's possible to return there for now. I don't know if it's about alterting history. We don't know if Ahsoka's rescue by Ezra was always a thing but it seems like it was as we saw her returning through the temple. It'll be interesting to see if she returns in the finale but the comments given in the Rebels Recon seem to indicate we may not. Why have that comment about Ezra asking her to find him though if they don't plan on bringing her back? If Ezra doesn't survive the finale we might not ever see them reunite so why have that? While I don't think Ahsoka will take part in the final fight I think he and Ahsoka will reunite before the end.

Speaking of nexuses it was fun to have a surprise Malcolm McDowell in this one. Honestly now that I think about it I don't know why I didn't think of him for a role in Star Wars before but he was great as a sinister different kind of villain that while evil he seemed genuinely interested in the knowledge which of course cost him in the end. Sort of like a villainous answer to the Knight from Last Crusade or the Professor from Avatar TLA who ends up buried in the library. This whole episode mostly the first one felt very Indiana Jones in terms of the mythology and expedition. I liked these scenes between him and Sabine as it reminds us that Sabine's interest in art does inform her character beyond her just tagging things with it which she has done much of lately. It's a nice contrast between her and Thrawn from both sides of good and evil and how they reflect on art.

The return of the Emperor was fun and having Ian back was great. I did notice he pronounced Ahsoka wrong though. At first he sounded off but that might have been down to him not having done it in awhile and his age so it might have sounded strange to me for that reason but quickly I got used to it again. I'm just glad we got the cackle again. Always love that Emperor laugh. As for the Emperor's interest and goals as the Rebels Recon said it's something he naturally would be interested in given what we know from the films which books and novels namely the Aftermath trilogy have already been expanding. I'm interested in seeing how it'll be explored further in the future. The preview for next time and the description seems to indicate we aren't done with Sheev so it'll be interesting to see if Ezra is brought before him for real if he will survive? He barely escaped this time one more encounter with the Emperor I imagine won't do him any good.

Animation and music again was well done. The blending of 2D animation felt seemless and it did feel like a story was being told. Voice acting again was well done and has been some of the show's best. I imagine the finale will be even better.

Honestly trying to understand these two episodes even after two viewings and two viewings of the Rebels Recon I still am not sure if I grasp all of it. This is something that will probably benefit from discussion I'm sure. Trippy and a lot to take in but I liked them overall. The end is coming next week. Honestly I'm just glad it can go out on it's own terms whatever that may be and I look forward to seeing how it all ends. One last lesson. Bring it on.

 

I feel as if potentially, the brother's spirit is also within some creature. But I hold a load more hope on Ahsoka now because Morai is with her and well acts a guide, I dunno what she wants to find going deeper, she'll have one ship to locate if she wants to leave... question is now what did she do for two years? Lay low?, find Lux before his death or attempt to see someone else from her past.

 

One thing that no one has brought up yet is another reunion, which IMO would be more important to Ahsoka than seeing Ezra again.

 

Exactly. That's why I don't like any time-travel stuff. And who knows how many realities have been created by other Force users who visited this portal-world earlier. Heh, and now we can tell for sure that one of those realities is called Legends and is totally legit.

 

If I remember correctly the owl was on Malachor, watching Vader limping away. But then it was in the WbW.
Did the owl knew about the portal, or being the daughter the owl could be anywhere?

 

Well remember the events on Malachor all happened in the past. Just like Ezra was there on Malachor during that moment when Ahsoka pushed him away to save him, the Convor was there. A paradox could've occurred if Ezra saw himself saving Ahsoka from Vader a few moments later.

 

The only good thing coming out of Ahsoka still being alive, is that their is potential for another Vader vs Ashoka showdown. While she isn't a Jedi anymore, she still is quite skilled in the force and saber combat and also willing to help out the Rebellion. It wouldn't make sense for her to avoid helping the Rebellion during the OT if she were still alive. You still have the 19yr dark times era and last days of the clone wars to get more stories about her.

 

You cannot change the past though. The films will always be the same. We already knew Ahsoka survived we just now know that was due to Ezra.

 

The only good time travel plots usually involve closed Loops and having events be set in stone ("Always in motion, the future is" is fine, but the past should be always be cemented and unalterable)

Trying to dramatically change the past (Saving Kanan, preventing Anakin's fall) just leads to headaches and talking in circles - not always a bad thing and that's what fanfiction is for, but you have to account for the thousands of things that change as a result of altering one detail

 

That's why I do not think it will be explored again. the point of the episode was for Ezra to save Ahsoka. If we ever see this again it will be the same way as we did here. We already knew Ahsoka survived Malacore all the way back in the season 2 final.

 

You see that for me is what this is, it feels like Daves fanfiction on screen. You’ve got your giant wolves and a weird Dr Who meets Lord of the Rings fantasy but just with a Starwars label slapped on it.
I don’t think he cares about consistency or stick to inner lore or logic

 

Hw does this break anything established in Lore before this point. Nothing about Time travel is logical so I will give you that, but how does it break lore?

 

I do wonder how next week will finish, its gonna be sad because 4 years of in my opinion a well worked series you could get behind ends... I still wanna see Hera and others in the future.. Mandalorians series would be interesting.. But yeah I feel as if we say goodbye to Ezra next week.. It would make sense because where would he be during Luke's time.. And Yoda has said about no Jedi also.. It fits for Ahsoka being a force wielder but Ezra's path is clouded for me.. If he survives the series finale maybe some more paths open for him for potential series appearances.. etc.

 

So what could the Emperor do by controlling this realm? I'm a bit lost here.

 

Yeah that is true. Honestly I wonder if Ezra will actually tell everyone about her survival?

 

I suspect she returned with Ahsoka rather than was there before Ezra left the first time?

 

Kill his enemies anywhere. Be able to manipulate anything. Maybe even change stuff in his own past if he so chooses. Unlimited power as he would put it.

 

Could travel to any point in time and space given his tendencies he could literally rewrite creation unless the Mortis entities could stop him?!