ST ST Criticism Discussion Thread

Except when Rey orders him to leave Luke on Ahch-To. Still like to have seen that conversation.

 

And then you never have her do anything powerfully Force-related again. Rian didn't seem to care much about how stuff like this, or the Holdo Maneuver, etc fundamentally break the universe and make things harder for other writers/filmmakers who come after him. He just wanted to do "his thing" and nothing else.

 

I don`t think Rey was irrelevant in the final act of TLJ, that gave her that "far stronger than Yoda at his best times" moment where she lifts half a mountain with no effort at all. However, what I think she IS, is bland. She performs a neccessary plot function in rescuing those 20 people but she doesn`t make the story compelling or interesting.

Luke`s confrontation with Vader and subsequent rescue were deeply emotional and heartpumping sequences. He is beaten to hell and back and that made me root for him all the harder to have a rematch in the final movie and win. Rey yeehaws on the Falcon, then lifts a mountain effortlessly and then the movie ends. So to me that makes her a bland main character I don`t root for at all. She can be the force hero all she wants, that doesn`t mean I don`t want her thrown down the Sarlacc pit alongside Kylo. Because both of them annoy me.

If I can`t like the hero, at least I would like the villain. But the ST is seriously not giving me even that.

 

You can always like the Porgs.

 

This reminds me of what I think Rey's genuine contribution is to the plot of Act III (because I still disagree that she was needed for the rocks). She was the gunner on Chewie's ship. Rey took out TIE fighters so the Resistance pilots in tin cans with no apparent weapons on their pointless suicide mission could turn around.

 

Exactly. And if it wasn't Rey or Leia, it would have been Dave.

He runs Crait Drilling and Blasting, a rock removal company down the road from the Rebel base, and could have easily taken care of it.

 

Hahaha. That is gonna be my motto for this movie now: slim pickings.

 

I mean, you can mock with this Dave stuff, but the simple truth of the matter is, Dave couldn't replace Luke in Act III of ESB.

 

We can solve all these problems with one simple solution. Dave the Porg is the Last Jedi.

 

Never, and I mean never, underestimate Dave.

 

Also this is how Luke ends his big confrontation with the bad guy in ESB, his lowest point:




This is Rey in TLJ mere minutes after her supposed "lowest point:"




Notice a difference here? So why should I find Rey's "struggles" compelling again?

 

If he did, I would have gone "what the hell? I want to see Luke and Vader". If Dave had shown up on Crait, I would have been like "cool, maybe it will get better now". Which, actually, he could replaced Luke for the force puppet show, too, and I wouldn`t have cared.

For me it`s like the imaginery friend of another person - they tell me it`s there but I only see air. Rey`s supposed struggles are just like that.

 

Comparing ESB to TLJ is like comparing a Taunton to a flea on a Porg.

 

Dave better be a Skywalker!

 

I feel like this is the first time I noticed that Rey kicking ass so easily in that gunner seat not only undermined Han and Luke from the OT, but also Finn in TFA. TFA put a lot of emphasis on Finn's ease with blasters. There was suspense in that dogfight on Jakku when Finn struggled to learn to shoot from that seat and then figured it out. All of that, wiped out in an instant.

 

I was only arguing Rey is Force hero in the trilogy and that I see Luke's character is not out of character. I don't think the ST renders the OT pointless because Luke fell apart for six years. I don't believe humans are invincible. I don't believe Luke is invincible (well... before he became one with the Force).

I did think it was weird that we don't see Rey wake up and then she's there in the MF as though nothing happened. But I think Rey prefers to keep herself optimistic and hopeful.

Anyway I agree Rey disappears a bit too much at the end and I think it's because the movie has to juggle her and Luke and they weren't not going to give Luke an epic moment or not have him confront Kylo...

The movie juggles too much in general and it costs Rey and Finn who have less screen time as a result.

 

Is Dave another name for Jake?

 

Yeah things like that never happen in Star Wars...

 

Oh yes you are correct:





Luke and Han in ANH.




Finn in TFA.

Also let us not forget that

-The MF is Han's ship, so presumably he'd know how to use it's turret guns.
-Luke can bullseye Wamprats with a T-16, and makes a great shot on the DS later on.
-Finn is a trained soldier and we see throughout the film is good with firearms.

And yet NONE of them do as well as Rey, whom we NEVER have seen use the turrets before and who forgot to take the safety off of a blaster in TFA. Again, OOP much?

 

He could have fallen apart for 16 years if, prior to that, he had established a meaningful lasting legacy. If there was a semi-flourishing Jedi Order, he could have gone off and sat on his butt out in the sun. But since he didn`t leave anything (and I`m not buying the "legacy" idea TLJ tries to sell me on, hahaha, no), he died as a permanent failure.

Leia also leaves nothing behind though she kept fighting till the end so I got to give her credit for that.

Still, the OT is pointless because we have the exact same struggle now after a measly 30 years. They seriously can not expect credit for that. And if the new characters win the day, they will get the credit for establishing peace and a new Jedi Order. The OT folks tried and failed. I mean, it was even the point of the ST to have the shiny new characters come in and do everything so much better than the OT characters. That is the underlying theme of the story.

Well, lets say they weren`t going to not give him what in their minds constituted an epic moment. Because I waited the entire movie for Luke to have an epic moment. I just have a vastly different opinion on what makes "epic" than RJ. This wasn`t even Little League for me.

That wasn`t the lowpoint movie. Things like that didn`t happen in Empire. TLJ is supposed to be the lowpoint movie also.

 

Also as I've stated before, just because you can maybe go "well this and this happened in another film" doesn't automatically make it any better in this film. Rey is STILL an OOP character who sucks any and all tension out of the story because of her OOP-ness.

 

@Alliyah Skywalker - Luke's legacy is he saved his father and helped end the Empire. Nothing can take that away. I don't understand why that's not enough. It's A LOT.

Then at the end of TLJ Luke manages to inspire the entire galaxy from his Crait standoff. Thanks to him the entire Rebellion is reborn.

And yes the ST is supposed to be about the new characters. Luke had his day.

Also the dark side is ALWAYS a struggle. Luke didn't gain immunity from it because he was the OT Force hero. No one can gain immunity. It's inside oneself, part of oneself. A Jedi must fight it their entire life, as must everyone. No learned lesson inoculates a person. The dark side can be dealt with in one form but then it returns in another form.

I think Battlestar Galactica better says what I'm trying to say: All of this has happened before and all of it will happen again.

 

So you had this opinion of Rey before TLJ (after watching TFA)?

 

No not really because she was more likeable there, less stupid as well, and I was giving LF the benefit of the doubt that there'd be a good explanation for her powers, her "mysterious past" would actually amount to something, and that she'd ACTUALLY struggle in the next movie.

Clearly I gave them FAR too much credit, my mistake.

 

Because nothing lasting and meaningful came from it. Anakin being a force ghost is not seriously a legacy to me.

I know that the movie tried to make a thing but I view it as the same as I do his "epic" moment. It`s nothing that approaches lecagy for me. Not if a bunch of fools in the GFFA believe the smokescreen lie about a coward and are inspired by that.

So if Rey also fails to build up a super-successful Jedi Order and ends up being and doing nothing of note, exactly like Luke, you`d be entirely okay with that story? Or is there a special reason why of course Rey must win at everything?