ST The New Definitely Not Improved Even More Horrible Than The Last Two Rumors Thread

I think the intention was always to show the audience Ben wasn't redeemable. to the point where they needed to do it twice to get the message across. but at the same time you want to convince the audience that they don't know whats gonna happen. you don't want an audience to watch this trilogy and know Ben will be redeemed. infact you want the audience to think the opposite.

But then one of the biggest missing elements here is why is Ben the way he is? why is he doing the things he is doing? why is he stuck between the dark and the light? why is he so obsessed over Vader? none of these things have yet to be explained and these things could actually be a key to what is making Ben the way he is.

 

Ben isn't evil. He's just a very naughty boy.

 

TROS will end with him being grounded for a week.

 

Well, maybe that's where Palpatine comes in?

 

How so?

Like coming for Kylo's soul much like he "rescued" charred Vader from the Mustafar lavabank?

Or like the badly behaved kid at school to blame as a bad influence on Kylo partly to blame for Ben's transgressions?

 

I'm not buying it because of the fact that Rose doesn't join the others on their adventure. Why?

Someone speculated that Rose is pregnant. If true, that would only solidify how poorly handled their relationship as been by the writers.

 

I don't know, I'm just spitballing here. Maybe it will be revealed that Palpatine has been manipulating Ben from a young age (like, from infancy even). We all assumed that if such a thing ever happened, Snoke would have been the culprit. But it was him all along.

 

"Send yourself to the far side of your room. There you will stay, until called for".

 

Was it ever confirmed if the K.O.R. were actually from students of Luke's jedi academy?

 

I think there is a veeeeery good chance Palpatine will have manipulated events in a similar way he did with the PT. and Kylo was the key to it all.

I could honestly see Palpatine working in the shadows and Snoke was working for Palpatine to get to Kylo, which allowed no one to suspect a thing.

 

No, it was always just speculation on our part because of Luke's line in TLJ.

 

Just this. Ben goes further than Vader, in the sense that Vader saves his son, whereas Ben does kill his father - although that scene has a twist coming to it, I sense. We haven't been shown everything.

The one thing that the Sequels have done well is portray Ben's agony in being torn between worlds - something we never really get from Vader until the end of RotJ. In this regard it is 'film 1&2' Rey that resembles 'film 1&2' Vader - an all-out heroine to Vader's all-out villain. We don't see a glimmer of Vader's redemption until the final act - so will we get a hint of Rey's dark side towards the end of RoS? And will Ben be a part of bringing her back? I hope JJ does at least offer us a glimpse of Dark Rey.

 

See, this is the reason my #1 theory after TFA was that there was something bigger and more dangerous behind Snoke, the destruction of which was Kylo's hidden goal. Back then I assumed it had something to do with the "Source of the Dark Side" mentioned in the novels. So much about the character simply makes no sense without a motive writ large. I could understand a character acting out because of trauma, but I think focusing on that would have (or should have) made a very different story. Just my opinion, of course.

Theory #2 was that Kylo was targeted, messed with, manipulated and turned against his own family since childhood. It's confusing because Kylo's characterisation shows signs of both #1 and #2, but overall I leaned towards #1 before TLJ.

After TLJ, I thought it was probably just the overall story that didn't make sense and stopped speculating, but the Palpatine reveal certainly made me raise my eyebrows. I'll be curious to see if it turns out JJ had something like the above in mind for Kylo, after all - especially after I was met with eyerolls for years for believing theory #1. At last I would get my revenge. Apparently revenge is a dish best served so cold you've forgotten it on the porch and it's already got a bit mouldy.

 

I feel like there's been this huge missed opportunity with regards to Kylo, Finn, and the FO.

In TFA we learned that the stormtroopers were stolen children, who were brain-washed/programmed into serving the darkside. At this point it almost seems like a throw-away line because it's never been mentioned again and has largely served nothing towards the plot. But it could have had huge implications for the story easily. That one little concept could have been explored much more. We could have had a ST that was truly about legacies. Our Rebels v the Empire. The OT heroes had a legacy, they had children, and started a new form of government, maybe even a new jedi academy. But after losing in the OT, the Empire suddenly has none. Their future was now over, and they're forced into steal the legacy of the good guys (Finn and Ben Solo) and brain-wash them into servitude. The FO is largely cult like to begin with, so it could have worked really well.

And it could have been really cool to see Finn who broke his brainwashing programming grow to lead a trooper rebellion in EP 9, saving other kids who shared his fate. TFA Finn would have also acted as almost foreshadowing to Kylo's eventual turn. They fight in FTA, showing how Kylo is literally fighting against his true nature. But by EP 9, Kylo brakes his own evil programming and comes full circle.

But...alas. If we do get programming/brain-washing/Palps was behind it all .. I think it's going to come across rather empty.

 

Well, well, speak of the devil:

 

Rey shouldn't do anything let him die. While Han knows that Kylo will kill him just makes his attempt at redemption pointless.

also lol
Also speculates that these locations would span all IX episodes, and mentions that the TFA forceback was originally changed because JJ did not want it to look like a Greatest Hits reel. Speculates that now, at the end, JJ might have gone back to the idea.

 

Kylo dies, but Ben lives. Twist!

 

they are one and the same. Just because he says that Ben was weak and foolish doesn't mean he's dead. Unless one believes he's demented. At least Vader being more machine than man is more fitting for duality, he was a shell of a man.

 

Kylo dies so he can become one with the Force, so that together he, Luke, Anakin, Obi-Wan, and Yoda can pull Palpatine's spirit back into the Netherworld of the Force, where he loses all sense of individual identity and merely becomes one with all else.

Just spitballing here

 

I also hope Kylo/Ben doesn't survive this movie.

 

What if there is something that can return the dead back to life in this movie. palpatine is after it to bring himself back. perhaps it can only be used once and Kylo sacrifices himself at the end to destroy Palpatine. Rey brings him back with said power.

Many would probably hate the idea of her bringing ben back to life. but then its down to execution really, depending on what we find out in the movie and Bens actions.

I don't think anyone would win if Kylo dies. to spite the character for killing Han and whatever would mean by the end the whole skywalker lineage is down but least Ben is dead to make up for it and make people feel better, while also spiting Lucasfilm to hurting the bloodline.

 

Research weapons for a new villain ..what if Darth Sidious ain’t the big bad ? Would they really tease the biggest surprise ? I think not.

 

Does anyone in the FO or Rebels even know hes Leia’s son? (Outside of Snoke) Why is no one on either side bothered that Kylo is fighting his mom, and vice versa.

So Kylo dies, but Ben Solo slinks back to Tatooine to farm like he’s scott free?