ST Rey & Kylo Ren in Episode IX

Luke looked much more like a madman from Kylo's perspective. I really believe RJ should have kept the caretakers scene in the movie. It definitively shows Rey's disillusionment in the myth of Luke Skywalker when he started mocking her desire to save people by making her believe the caretakers were in danger. It could also be when she started to see things from Kylo's perspective in terms of having Luke as a teacher.

 

Yep, he actually had some thoughts before I was born, and I am from the early 90s LOL.

We all know what are PH tweets regarding what GL had in mind for his ST... in 2012, not in 1983.

 

The dice? You mean this thing I never once saw before associated with Han is being passed off as some glaring amazing memento of Han's life to Kylo and the audience. What did it remind Leia of...that Han liked to gamble? That he had an old flame before her? Leia gave it look like..."shrug", Luke and Leia both looked unfazed by it. I mean...does Luke say "I miss Han...here these were his". No! He mentions that she changed her hair style and she smiles. My dad died 10 years ago and I saw an old aunt at the funeral. We talked about our memories of my dad. Not how her hair style looked that day. That's more like what you say to an acquaintance at the supermarket. "hey..you've changed her hair...I think". Luke might as well talked about the weather. I honestly felt nothing seeing this play out.

And if Kylo is sad because he's still not powerful. He's now the Supreme Leader and no one respects him. He's the master of the dark side and he's still effected by emotions. Still...has attachments to the light. He does not have any regret or compassion for any of the heroes at all. Otherwise, he'd end the war right then and there.

 

The relationship is not familial but it is more than romantic

Compassion? What's that?

Yes, this...

Disparate = containing or made up of fundamentally different and often incongruous elements. 2 : markedly distinct in quality or character.

This is my answer or interpretation... take what you for what it is worth to you.

Rey and Kylo are NOT the cosmic and living force inside the star wars universe technically but they, Rey and Kylo represent the twin heroes that represent the cosmic force. Or they are a symbolic representation the cosmic force. The original twin heroes from the beginning was not and I repeat not Luke and Vader but it was ALWAYS Obi Wan and Darth Vader and or Obi Wan and Luke and now Rey and Kylo

Georges idea of the living force might be traced to Carlos Castaneda and the Tales of Don Juan



Georges ideas of the cosmic force might be traced to Joseph Campbell himself



Rey & Kylo's motifs the Sun/Fire child and the Water child most mirror Vader/Anakin/( Sun) Skywalker and Obi Wan/Rey ( Water) ...antagonistic yet cooperative, represent a single cosmic force, polarized, split and turned against itself. (disparate) The elements Fire & Water = cosmic force

Fire/Water Motifs...

Anakin's transformation from Jedi to Vader is in Fire,



Obi Wan's transformation from Jedi to Hermit is with water



The first thing you see Rey do after she takes off her mask is drink water, the first time you see Kylo is in a firey landscape on Jakku

 

In a deleted scene we have Luke saying to Rey that she opened herself to the darkside for "a pair of pretty eyes". Does this seriously sound like a father talking to his daughter about his nephew? Plus MH, who actually read the script didn't seem like he thought they were related at all based on his comments about them.

 

I said the relationship is not familial...romance is an analog but there is something more here than romance, the connection is mystical, mysterious and strange.

Destiny and fate are involved, I can't wait to find out what that means to Kylo & Rey

 

It definitively sounds more like a spiritual connection than anything else to me. From where I'm standing, it seems like Rey/Kylo's story is a favorite compared to the other storylines, it's no wonder LFL wants us to speculate about the meaning of their connection since TFA came out. Luke's arc seems to be a biggest point of contention which could be explained by GL's decision to make him "a broken Kurtz up the river" in exile and would have been controversial no matter who did it. The Canto Bight storyline seems to be the least favorite but I personally liked it for its messages.

 

It didn’t make sense no matter the context, tbh, and no matter who Rey is. We don’t know why that was ever in any version of the script.

But it wasn’t in a deleted scene.

The only connection I see to what else we know is that Mark said that Luke was “putting on an act for Rey” in TLJ.

So *shrug.*

It’s not like many fans don’t claim a character acts directly contrary to their true feelings.

 

But In TLJ Rey believed in the legend of Luke Skywalker: she applies (wrongly) Luke turning Vader to herself and Ben/Kylo. What's more, she offers the lightsaber to Luke again. She still believe that legendary thing (turning hated people) to be possible, and its more to the point of her story and Kylo's in the film.

The deleted scene was more about Luke, maybe.

http://www.starwarsunderworld.com/2015/10/rumor-new-details-about-crucial-scene.html

Cailey Fleming (little Rey) said that Rey is wearing 'war clothes' in the TFA vision. That must be an expression she took from Abrams. Theres nothing very war-like in her attire. No unifom, no weapons.

In the TLJ deleted scene the caretakers and the 'raiding tribe from the neighbouring island' are made to look suspiciously like the clan and the KOR by Luke. Luke even uses Obi-Wan's 'greater numbers' expression. They will be back in greater numbers ('The Knights of Ren have raided the Clan before'. Originally, 'greater numbers' referred to the tusken 'raiders')
It ends up being a joke, but Luke is very serious about the lesson to be learned: dont intervene. 'Will you be here next month?'

'For many years there was balance, then [=when there was no longer balance] I saw Ben'. It seems as if Ben had been a late addition to his temple. Was Luke trying to re-balance some previous conflict? Half of his students went away with Kylo.

This is not a lesson, says Rey, and she may be right. More like an experience from which theres not that much to learn. And maybe Rey was a part of it,

 

Rey & Kylo is THE central storyline in the ST, everything else ( Finn, Poe, Rose) is supporting and or ancillary. Rey is the protagonist but she is a twin hero, Kylo is the villain at the moment, but he is also the third Skywalker, he will complete the redemptive/atonement/sacrificial arc.

I am not a fan of TLJ, In my opinion it is one of the worst entries into the saga, for me Luke's arc is an issue, he could have been a proper mentor to Rey, there are structural issues in the movie and the Canto Bight storyline needed Poe desperately. I think George would have done the Kurtz arc for Luke but I have ZERO doubt it would have been done differently.


"Lucas had by now simplified the mysticism in his script. Obi-Wan Kenobi would be a guardian of the wisdom of the Jedi knights and the force, a mysterious power "that binds the universe together". Lucas had found the inspiration for the idea in a story in Carlos Castaneda’s Tales Of Power, in which a Mexican Indian mystic, Don Juan, described a "life force" (Empire Building, page 62).

1,000 generations live in you now... Rey Kenobi....

 

It sounds incredibly sexist though so I understand why RJ cut it.

I said their relationship is the core relationship of the trilogy since day one, whether they were siblings or not, for sure. That doesn't mean the others aren't important as well. Finn as been marketing as a main character though I really didn't like the misleading marketing they did with the lightsaber. That was definitively a low point.

You think it would have been better received if GL did it? With the way people overreact to him mentioning the Whills and "microbiotic world" in the same sentence, it really makes me doubt it.

Apparently, some people interpreted it as her giving Luke an ultimatum, but that's not how I saw it. I saw it as her giving him a second chance to redeem himself and to become the legend the galaxy needed him to be. I think that's mostly because she still didn't see herself as the heroine of this story but by the end of the movie, she changed her mind after Kylo refused to turn.

 

It was bts footage - an unfinished alternate take of part of a movie scene. Not a deleted scene.

ETA: Blatantly sexist, yes. And still nonsensical, for reasons that should be obvious.

 

I think introducing new mythical elements are always tough but never as transgressive as an ex post facto destruction of a formerly happy ending. I also might add, that the microbiotic world/Whills could have been an element of the saga without taking hold of the whole narrative. A little side trip to the microbiotic world might have been exciting and a feast for the eyes.

I would have loved Jedi Finn, but that is not what we got. I will not lie to myself, Finn is not in any way important to the force mythology of Star Wars in the same way Lando is not, however Finn could have been an important element in the ST, which as of now he is not either. I will see if JJ can redeem Finn's arc.

Finn's motif's are continuously problematic and stereotypical steppin fetchit sidelined comedic relief. Some might argue that Rey's "relationship" is problematic and her arc as protagonist undeserved particularly by TLJ but no one would argue that she is not central to the force mythology.

So after Luke reconnected with Leia...she did not secretly tell him that Rey was her daughter and his niece?

 

As problematic as Finn’s arc was in TLJ, I can certainly see how his set-up integrates him into the core Saga.

I would think this would be evident to, say, any big Anakin Skywalker fan.

 

It's not that nonsensical when we know RJ's intent was for the audience "to believe in this romance". Though, I really doubt his intention was for it to be on such a superficial level or to make nor to portray Luke as a sexist jerk but to portray Rey/Kylo's relationship more on an emotional level which sounds like TROS will continue in this direction—though, maybe not in a romantic sense depending on what is JJ's intent for those two characters which may or may not be in line with what RJ expected.

 

No. It’s failure to make sense has nothing to do with whether TLJ is reylo or not.

1. When he saw Rey being pulled to the DS cave - the one time he saw her appear to open herself to the dark side - Kylo had zero to do with the context.

2. Luke doesn’t have a kinky attraction towards his nephew. “Pretty eyes”? Um.

I’ve seen reylos, too, note that the line makes no sense.

Seems more like a perverse element RJ never intended to put in the final movie - again *reylo completely aside.*

 

There had to be a reason for it to make it until the shooting script though, unless it was an improvised line. And it was clear to me that Luke was not talking about himself when he said "pretty eyes".

 

There’s a reason for everything. I just explained why that reason may not be what you seem to believe it was.

 

Sorry not sorry...

 

I don't think making the ST would have been possible without breaking RotJ's happy ending in some way. Even when Michael Arndt was the one writing the script, it was decided that Luke, Han and Leia would be separated at the beginning of the story by a tragedy, it's impossible to find a way to make everybody happy. However, according to MH, GL told him that Luke would have died in IX after training Leia, so I guess there is some leeway in having Luke having much more of a mentor role in his version than what we ended up with.

That's partly why Luke knowing Rey is his daughter in TLJ doesn't work for me for a few reasons.
1) There is no hint that Luke's despondency is linked to anything else beside what happened between him and Kylo in that critical moment. I personally didn't see hint of him having a hidden daughter anywhere in the movie.
2) He knows Rey's name but it never ring a bell in his mind for some reason.
3) The "pretty eyes" line being cut which doesn't imply them being related. At all.

 

And what exactly happened between Luke and Kylo at that critical moment? Luke saw something that freaked him out and he flipped out on Kylo. What did Luke see? We don’t know. We do know what he heard, though. And it’s something Rey had heard earlier.

How do you know?

It doesn’t imply anything.

(Although if you mean it implies he and Rey are not related, surely you see why it would then imply that he and Kylo are not related...?)

 

I am sick to death of reading that there was no way it could have gone any differently than it did, like the scripts came down the mountain with the Commandments. All I see is a lack of imagination by all involved, especially Arndt and his "let's separate everyone" and JJ and Kasdan, who apparently spent their time wandering around major cities, wining and dining on an expense account and came back to their rooms every night to wear out a copy of ANH while they copied it.

There are plenty of ways to write a story without destroying Luke, Han and Leia, all they stood for, all their victories, and their friendship and love for each other. That they just did one more variation on the OT is a failure of imagination, but looking at who they rounded up for this endeavour, we should have expected that.