Lit Reading NJO...Again

Spoiler

Alright, its pretty clear then he had absolutely no understanding of the themes of Traitor or what Vergere actually meant with her cryptic and controversial statements. Why I am I not surprised, Denning has a painful lack when it comes to grasping themes and philosophical nuance.

Spoiler

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So I am almost finished with Rebel Stand.

The heroes have defeated Lord lightsaber, in a very cool and interesting fight. "Others drown in it I swim in it", great line, shows how strong she has grown.

It is very good to see the heroes being smart, doing smart things, and being rewarded for it. Other books that greatly annoy me (The last Command) would just have the bad guys magically know what the heroes were doing anyway.

I really liked all the tricks and how it all comes together.

I liked Viqi and I am disappointed she died I would have liked to see her pop up again.

now onto the point and why I have quoted the post

During the attack the old warmaster is speaking with a subordinate who sees only what is in front of him, so he is named ooglith masquer.

I feel this applies to Denning, he sees only the surface, only what is shown to him, no subtlety no layers. Good guys are good and all they do is good. Bad Guys are bad and all they do is bad. Good is right and all they do is good and right.

 

I wonder if he wonders these boards. He may get the wake up call.

So glad I plan to not go towards his route in my planned rewrite (which is ongoing but I have a planned two week vacation coming soon and all I plan to do is write ).

 

Was not that one where Thrawn did lost Delta Source and no longer could know what the heroes were doing?

 

Yep and then he guessed it anyway. No info, just his guess and it was totally right and no one on his side questioned it. It really annoyed me, why have the heroes even try to be smart if Thrawn can just guess what they are planning anyway. Why bother with deception and misinformation if Thrawn has access to the script?

In RS the heroes are facing a smart bad guy, who adapts to their tactics but isn't all knowing, he isn't aware of everything, he picks up stuff quickly but he can't just guess what the heroes are doing.

Viqi is smart but she isn't perfect she can be fooled and unlucky.



edit:

I also loved Lukes first reaction to learning about Lord Nyax "Can we save him?"

I think is Luke, he is shown someone damaged and corrupted and his first thought is how to save him. He doesn't treat death lightly and not a first resort.

Something the Denningverse would invert.

 

Sorry for the double post.

I have just finished Rebel Stand.

A good ending, I liked how all the threads came together. Good to see the final battle as well.


NOW TRAITOR

This book I feel defines the NJO

Vergre isn't a direct mentor or a source of wisdom, she says so herself. She makes some interesting observations.

Everything I tell you is a lie, you will find no truth in me.

To me this means he has to look with in himself and that things aren't always what they appear.

 

Traitor truly is the high mark of the NJO series.

 

There's some contenders, I think, but you're most likely right.

 

I prefer The Unifying Force, but Traitor is a close second.

 

to bad that the torture organism Jason is trapped in is very much what it appears to be.

 

TUF is my most favorite story in SW, but Traitor is the best story imo.
Both are high marks of the EU.

 

Then I think you missed what Traitor is about.

 

Traitor i my fav book of all SW ever.

I do wonder, how do you compare it to say Mortis or Yoda arc of TCW? Or Rebels World between Worlds episode? All of those are out there and revolutionary for SW. No matter how they all have been interpreted or misinterpreted over time.

Stover got the ROTS novelisation from Lucas for a reason, namely Traitor.

And a lot of Traitor can be reread in the light of later Mortis, Yoda arc etc.

just a few examples, I could go on for ages:

The nature of the Force, life, death, creation destruction as described in Traitor mirrors these episodes perception of it.

Yoda arc gave Yoda so much preknowledge he intentionally did not act on later on or during ROTS, that many wondered how he could not act upon the intel while others argued he intentionally let it happen for it was presented to him as the only way that they can win longterm, not the war but balance. Was Yoda a gardener here that gambled with the high death toll and younglings lifes even?

Death, destruction as natural part of life fueling rebirth and renewal and vice versa as Traitor showed was in said episodes too as well as TLJ with Luke showing Rey.

I find it interesting that the Force Priestesses or Qui Gon's spirit told Yoda not to share it with the others or Jedi Order proper which was not ready as Yoda only became after purging himself by accepting his shadow self. I guess they said so in order to prevent misinterpretation of the lessons, as happened to post-Traitor book and series when Jacen told the New Jedi Order about his own revelations! nice mirroring aspect.


edit: PS: I also wonder how much of Mortis seen based on episodes alone is different than when you interpret it including the EU around it like Jedi Path, Book of Sith and later FOTJ bits or guidebook bits expanding it bit by bit. I loved the references and expansions to it, especially the aspect of "missing a mother" but for me that never was Abeloth but rather the Force Priestess ever since Rebels confirmed a connection between Mortis and them/her.

 

So more into traitor.

Vergre continues to be mysterious and a troll.

I do like Jacen's thoughts on pain and how people deal with it. This works since we see Han react to his pain (grief), before he faces it.

Lah seems off to me, maybe he is just being rude to Nom, but he still knows people can play politics with the gods.

I also feel that Nom was lying when he states the empire had 'no internal divisions', given that it was internal rebellion that brought down the Empire.

I also like what Jacen is doing here. He is acting like a jedi. He stood up where he need to, but then he goes about healing people and helping them. His first thought upon seeing that Vergre can heal is to ask her to help heal others.

I think Vergre is messing with Jacen by handing out Sith philosophy. She wants him to ask questions (as she said several times). Also Jacen rejects these ideas. So I don't see how people get him going dark.

Also the jedi are gardeners aren't they? They call criminals weeds and remove them.

 

I agree, Jacen's fall is not visible in Traitor at all. Vergere being a Sith or tied to the Sith could be, but even if so, she no longer follows their rules and just uses both sides knowledge she obtained over time.

Jedi are gardeners that do not remove criminals, at least they shouldn't but rather try to nudge them back to a useful function in the garden. Imprisonment or death are only the last options. Qui Gon loved to use wrongdoers for help and redeem them in the process (see Master and Apprentice).

Rewatching the Mortis arc last night, I found interesting paralells:

In the second episode when the Son captured Ahsoka and has her chained, he impersonates a weird little creature that tries to help her and free her, messing with her (until he gets angry and reveals himself, biting her for she did not agree with him). This scene mirrors some of Vergere and Jacen in the Embrace of Pain scenes even quoting her paraphrased.

But the very same Mortis trilogy that alludes to the Son being selfish and a personification of the force of nature that is destructive claims that while the Son is all that, he only later on chose the Dark Side. Not that he always had been the Dark Side or that what his role is is tied to the Dark Side. The Father said he chose it and could choose otherwise, the Daughter added that he only does what is in his nature. The Son goes on to offer Anakin in the third episode, what Vergere offerend Jacen: A way to keep peace and order, maintain and restore balance through destroying all that stands in that goals way, be it Jedi and Sith or else. In that way the Son is not the Dark Side per se but destruction with his only way he sees is removing what is in the way. In the same way, Vergere may not be Sith but rather see that one way to achieve the goal is to remove what does hinder it. Another is the Daughters way of creation for she is unable to destroy anything (even touch or use the dagger of Mortis). But as the Father said, both extremes are imbalancing, creation and destruction unchecked cannot be. Which is why the Gardener has to remove as well as create new plants in the end as Jacen did both in Traitor.

 

So continuing my journey through traitor.

Jacen makes a friend. I do like this idea of Jacen, someone so empathetic and charismatic he can start as a slave and end up half running the joint.

Jacen decides that all the slaves are flowers and acts to help.

Jacen decides the guards are weeds and comes up with a plan to save the flowers and remove the weeds.

Jacen makes a bold fashion statement, by covering himself in a living armour of snake-like things that can block lightsabers.

More negatively, why don't we ever see blast bugs before or after? Vong grenades would be useful (for them).

So Nom doesn't underestimate the jedi, good call.

Vergre calls Jacen a true jedi here, which I think is her honest opinion. I mean what does she gain by saying that rather than, 'I am making him a sith' to Nom.

She stops him from killing his friend.

he saved thousands of people.

YEAH it is crazy how Coruscant will NEVER be the SAME again (oh wait yes it will denningverse)

Is a jedi just someone who kills without feeling it or being angry? Denningverse says yes.

Where is the line between good and evil? It is easy to see the big things, but what about the small? Before you can fight something you must know what it is. (I am reminded of the clone wars ep with Krell)

 

I remember when I finished reading Traitor, I could honestly say my reaction was upon the finishing the book, was that I was amazed and satisfied.

It is probably the best SW writing ever done, the movies included.

 

It's definitely the most dense.

Stover brings up the idea that the Darkside comes from the jungle and is more 'natural' which to my mind means that the lightside is about rising above our bestial nature. (reminds of Christian theology about the nature of sin)

So here is a werid thing that may just kill Vergere. But when ever she is described in a scene (and not said to be standing) I picture her roosting like this



Just a funny thing I think of.

I would also like to see Vergere debate with Yoda.

 

Someone just recently wrote a Kreia and Vergere fanfic. https://archiveofourown.org/works/18865819

It's something I have always wanted to see.

 

For whatever reason (maybe I was playing Pokemon Gold/Silver a lot at the time?) Vergere always made me think of these Pokemon:

 

We would have known for sure that Shimrra and Onimi were twins. And Onimi had more time with Nom Anor to spend before Luke killed Shimrra. I always wondered why Nommie was so eager to die with Onimi, when they met mostly officially at the court after Nom spotted Onimi riding towards this special shaper's Damutek.

 

Anor knew he wasn't going to fit into either a reformed Vong society or GFFA society. There was also his numerous crimes to take into consideration.

Any ambitions he may have had died, when the Vong lost the war, and thus life was no longer worth the living.

 

Oh Nom would have found a way... others did too, see Vongerella for one!

 

He could have become CoS, I mean he makes more sense than Daala.

 

Did Anor die though? I mean we didn´t saw it. Yeah he most likley died but I think the writers pruposfully left it somewhat ambigious just in case they wanted to bring him back, like happened with Raynar for example.