ST Rey & Kylo Ren in Episode IX

Couldn’t agree more. Sometimes I forget that in the timeline of the films we’ve known Rey for about a week. So yeah, her trusting Mr. Murder is completely absurd.
However, to be fair, Padme listening to Anakin go on a psychotic rant about slaughtering an entire village of Tusken Raiders (including children) and merely saying "to be angry is to be human" and then marrying him is even more ridiculous.

So...Star Wars isn't going to be confused with Shakespeare anytime soon.

 

Exactly. Rey's plan b should be to go back to Leia and Finn. Not shipping herself in a box directly to the enemy.

 

It's so stupid. Even if she knows that Luke won't come to her, and she doesn't yet believe in herself as the hero of this fight, how about Leia and the resistance members who just hours ago blew up Starkiller base? Why wouldn't you look to them as Plan B instead of the man who you are literally fighting against.

I'm a little confused about what is a legit spoiler and what is speculation at this point, but I genuinely don't understand how they are going to make this supposed team up believable. If he asks her to team up? Should be an automatic no. She sees a vision that something something with Palpatine? She should have learned from TLJ that her visions are not reliable. I just don't get why she would ever trust him enough to join forces again.

ETA: Jinx @Solo88!

 

THIS! Johnson painted Episode 9 into a corner. Then JJ having Palpatine be the big bad instead of Kylo makes things even worse. Having them team up is not believable at this point.

 

Johnson didn’t paint 9 into anything LMAO! The ending of TLJ was so open ended that you can literally take TROS anywhere.

 

The only way it potentially works for me is if there is a related reveal first. Then, feelings get much more complicated, and a team up has a different meaning. (though even if they are related, she shouldn't trust him after what he did to dear old dad)

 

Anywhere? The Rise of Skywalker Darth Jar Jar

 

I mean if that’s where JJ wants to take it, Rian did nothing in TLJ to prevent it

 

Jar Jar was close to Palpatine. Maybe he's the one keeping his spirit alive.

 

That about sums it up. End of thread. What do we do now?

 

Rinse and repeat. 'Tis the Internet.

Sent from my SM-A500FU using Tapatalk

 

No wonder why this thread is 835 pages. I remember when I suscribed it was about 500 pages and I was like: "wow, there must be incredible talking on this subject!". Little did I know. It was just the same 4-5 people repeating the same things ad nauseum. It's still the case This thread is mostly an echo chamber. And yet for some reasons I don't understand, I keep opening it every two days or so

In TROS Rey will probably try to kill Kylo in the first part of the movie or at least defend himself against him, isn't that what the trailer teases us about anyways? I mean, apart from hardcore Reylos, I don't think anyone thinks that she's training with him here.

Oh and Anakin is charming AND sexy by the way. He's got the most charming smile, it's just that the script makes him look like a pervert when he looks at Padme. I feel bad for Hayden every time he's called a bad actor (not here but in this YT video that's been posted in the previous page)... It's not his fault if the script was awful. Natalie suffered from it too, when she looked for a job after the PT.

 

Maybe its a KOR other than Kylo in the teaser.Or she challenged him to a knightly duel which would explain why they are all alone.if that’s the case it’s a badass entrance by Kylo and an awesome way to start the fight.

 

I think it's Kylo. It's his gloves that we see anyways. I feel like it will be more the 2nd option: she may want him to focus on her, while her friends have only got to deal with the FO army. I wonder if the Vanity Fair shots (the ones taken in the desert) we had reflect an actual scene in the movie: if Kylo and Rey face each other like that. If it's an actual scene I think it will happen before the fight: Rey's got her staff, while in the teaser she attacks him with her light saber. My idea of a chronology:

- Rey and the Resistance is in Pasaana for some reasons, and are quickly chased down by Kylo and the FO; there's a shot of Rey riding a ship and shooting on the FO guys.
- Rey and Kylo find themselves face to face: that would be the double cover of VF
- Rey gives Finn her staff for against Kylo, a light saber will be much more useful (we see Finn holding Rey's staff, maybe he watches Rey from above?)
- Kylo gets back on his TIE and rushes on her. Maybe he tried to shoot her and Rey broke the TIE's blasters. Rey does the flip flop thing and probably trashes the TIE.
- Then starts the Force flash fight that Jason mentioned in his leak. DR evoked an epic fight for Kylo and Rey: I highly suspect it's this one, for I don't think she would be authorized to talk of the very last fight of the movie.

 

I guess she slices the Tie in two in midair.
I suspect the Force Flash fight to happen near the end at DS II but you could be right.
Maybe DS II really is all about Sidious.

 

Great post but I’ll reinforce each of these 3 supporting perspectives further because I believe you’ve glossed over some of the more significant aspects driving her story forward.

PATHOS
Further supporting argument:

She has dished out a brand of punishment on him already, potentially reducing a sense of obligation of unfinished business there in part because she doesn’t enjoy hurting people if she doesn’t have to. Something reinforced later in the film. The massive scar on his face that she sees is a constant reminder to her of what she has already done to him. For those focused on the mind entering scene more than I do she also entered his mind in retaliation. From an emotional perspective she may feel partially satisfied from retaliations she’s already been involved with. Others in this argument may have a more punishing sense of justice that exceeds Rey’s. I mention that she’s partially satisfied because she still seeks to attack initially during the first mind bridge and that emotional anger only subsides when she realizes later that they can’t do anything but talk in this situation which, from their perspective, the Force itself has created to bring them together. Which brings me to another aspect of the pathos argument missed. Intrigue in the form of the mystery box that is the mind bridge experience itself. Why would the Force be bringing them together in this way is a question Kylo Ren asks. Neither of them knows the answer to that but what we all know is that the mystery box approach is a powerful tool that hooks curiosity in an intense way so consistently that storytellers regularly employ it to hook audiences. She became hooked in determining what this was and what it meant perhaps because she believes she is on a journey to bring someone back connected to this saber. The other emotional aspect we didn’t discuss is her own personal feelings for him that she can’t explain that might involve some form of attraction. The combination of all of this leads her astray.

LOGOS
FuRther Supporting argument:

Rey has been told by a wise sage-like figure that if she takes this saber someone connected to it may come back. She logically expects this person has to be Luke and when it appears he isn’t the one there is only one other with a tie to the saber and who could be a game changer left in her mind and it’s Ben. The guy who wanted it as his birthright before. The guy the General of the Resistance wanted brought home. When she fails option A she logically turns to the second asset the General of the Resistance wanted. She gives Luke one final chance to change her mind and he again rejects the saber. Snoke is the current leader of the FO. If she’s seen a vision of him dead and Kylo and Rey working together then her reasoning for going to defeat the Supreme Leader is a gambit she may see as worth risking.

ETHOS:
Further supporting argument:

This is the deal-cutting aspect similar to my CIA example. Snoke is seen as the larger enemy worth stopping and there’s belief that together they can do it.

 

You mean the big ugly scar that RJ made all but disappear? That's nothing compared to what Kylo did to Han and Finn. He deserves much worse, and there is no reason for Rey to feel otherwise.

She didn't enter his mind in retaliation. It's canon that she was thrust in there unwittingly, as a reflexive response to Kylo probing the barrier in her mind. Again, it makes no sense that she would feel this to be sufficient redress for his knocking her out, kidnapping her, and painfully violating her.

As far as curiosity about the "mind bridge," she's believed in the force for a day at this point. She shouldn't be a religious zealot yet. And we know, OOU, that it was created solely to force Rey to listen to Kylo without attacking him, so it's just another way of restraining her and forcing Kylo on her without strapping her to a table.

She left Maz and ran away when she was told that, and she didn't have the saber when Kylo hunted her down, knocked her out, kidnapped her, and painfully violated her. I don't see how it logically follows that she would transfer a sentence from Maz that she didn't care about at the time to a driving force behind rescuing the villain from...himself.
As far as Leia, Rey has known her even less time -mere hours- than Han and Finn (and we know what Kylo did to them). If Leia, in that short time, confided in Rey that she sent Han to his death because she wanted her son back, I doubt it would be a shining recommendation for Rey to try it herself, given how it ended for Han. At the point Rey meets Leia, Leia wants Luke back, and that's Rey's mission, and that's why Leia gives Rey the tracker and sends her off on the Falcon. Rey going to Kylo is like the valet taking Camron's dad's car for a joyride in Ferris Bueller's Day Off.

Rey barely had time to get the Cliff's notes version of the conflict she finds herself embroiled in. How much is she supposed to know about Snoke? And why should she care, when Kylo is the one who personally knocked her out, kidnapped her, painfully violated her, threw her against a tree (knocking her out again), killed Han, almost killed Finn, attacked her with a lightsaber...? It would make far more sense for her to try to turn Snoke to her side against Kylo at this point.

 

Oh yeah, I forgot to address that part. It's so ridiculous. Women are not attracted to every single man they see who might be considered attractive to others. To assume Rey is so attracted to her torturer that she literally abandons any semblance of intellect or self preservation is just too insulting. My personal experience is the exact opposite. I once found my ex to be attractive. After he became abusive, I found him disgusting. I can't even look at old pictures without a physical negative reaction.
Rey should, imo, find Kylo repulsive. I have yet to hear a convincing argument for why she would find him attractive after how he treated her and her friends. Seriously. Who thinks kidnapping, torture, and murder are hot?

 

In reference to the amazing post that @godisawesome released earlier, I'm of the supporting argument team in that Rey trying to turn Kylo was about her friends' lives being at stake. However, my argument never in any way, shape or form involves Rey finding Kylo attractive. She may find him a tiny bit sympathetic, but I was never under the impression that she wants him romantically.

My own belief is that Rey wanting Kylo to turn was always about winning the war and after that, they would just be allies and nothing more. At best, Kylo would be totally into Rey after he turned, but Rey is way too good for the damaged package that is Ben Solo and it would have never happened.

Other people may have seen the chemistry between Ridley and Driver as romantic build-up, but I just saw it as a setup for the (pretty obvious) twist that he was still going to be evil after getting Snoke out of the way. So yeah, I just don't see the point or appeal of Reylo.

 

Excellent post @ForceGhostPrincessLeia, but I want to add my overwhelming support to this point in particular. Someone fighting off their attacker is not retaliation... it is not punishment... it is self defense. They are not "even" simply because she had an instinct of self preservation in that moment. This frame of thought is just a way to protect Kylo from ever having to endure any sort of punishment for his crimes, because things are automatically "even" every time someone fights back against him. And a big fat "no" to other's having a more "punishing sense of justice" then Rey's. Kyly has endured no punishment so far. There has been no justice. He is the free-roaming leader of the first order.

Also, a big laugh to the massive scar being a reminder of what she has done to him. Kylo's scar is pretty excellent reminder that, for RJ at least, Kylo gets special treatment and doesn't have to truly suffer the consequences of his actions. It's a perfect symbol of everything that is wrong with TLJ.

Kylo is the villain of this trilogy. He needs to be treated that way in TROS, just as he was in TFA.

 

My theory judging by what we have heard is that both Kylo and the knights are after something important and so is Rey and Co. its a race to find this something before the other does. as rumors suggest there is like a treasure hunt of sorts in the movie. in the climax Kylo and Rey may be trying to get there before each other... and then palpatine appears. gloats and laughs at the 2 of them for helping make his plan become reality.

 

I think the movie`s pre-requisite IS some stanning of Kylo in some form to naturally project and live vicariously through Rey coming around to do the same in the movie. She is a pair of binoculars so a loving gaze can be turned onto Kylo.

If you find the character repulsive, there is no hell or high water or even stanning of Rey herself (the last one probably would work least of all in that case) to overcome that and follow Rey onto her binocular journey. When it came to that storyline the movie put all its eggs into one basket and either that basket is attractive to you or not. It`s not even like they work particular hard to make that basket, i.e. character attractive since it works on the assumption that he already should be. I mean, if they wanted to sell Kylo on an unwilling part of the audience, even via the illusion that he was better than he turned out to be in the end, well, that was one of the lousier cat-fishing jobs I`ve ever seen.

He never even did anything selflessly. Killing Snoke was still very much self-serving and he proved that conclusively right after. He never even showed anguish over his mother`s "death" and has completely written her off, like, 2 hours later by movie`s end. Anakin and an entire Tusken village are rolling in their graves.

And if TROS plays out like it seems right now. With Kylo being the brutal enemy for 90 % of the movie, then Palpatine shows up and slaps his snot-nosed brat self down and only then Kylo is like "wow, better team up with Rey here", that is just the same. How would they sell that suddenly this time, within that fight he developed a conscience and this time he suddenly does it for the right reasons? Lip-wibbling, teary eyes, his hair is sad? If his "redemption" hinges on such a flimsy moment and then he doesn`t even have to pay with his life but gets a little slap on the wrist for his crimes? One of the worst heel-face-turns I could think of.