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Lit How the First Order came to be [An essay]

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Charlemagne19, Aug 29, 2019.

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  1. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 30, 2000
    http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/2019/08/star-wars-essay-how-first-order-came-to.html

    [​IMG]

    I'm a huge fan of the Star Wars Expanded Universe, whether it is the classic Legends or the new canon version. I bought my first adult novel when I was twelve in Dark Force Rising by Timothy Zahn and eventually read literally hundreds of the books. I'm not against the reboot because I think they covered literally everything they possibly could with the classic trio up to Crucible by Troy Denning.

    However, there are some issues with world-building as we don't know much about the new villains in The First Order or how they came to be. At least on screen. Thankfully, the Expanded Universe is always there to fill in the gaps as long as you're willing to shell out the money necessary to fill in the gaps.

    We're still learning a lot of things about the First Order, their methods, and their origins but I think we can build a rough timeline of events from the Battle of Endor to the destruction of Hosnian Prime that ticks off the Second Galactic Civil War. This is a very nerdy series of speculations but I am, in fact, a huge nerd. I hope you guys enjoy.

    Sources for this:

    * Shattered Empire
    * Battlefront II
    * Alphabet Squadron
    * The Aftermath Trilogy
    * Uprising
    * The Mandalorian
    * Bloodline
    * Before the Awakening
    * Resistance (series)
    * The Force Awakens
    * The Last Jedi novelization

    THE RISE OF THE FIRST ORDER (4 After the Battle of Yavin to 34 After the Battle of Yavin)

    The death of Emperor Sheev Palpatine was part of a one-two punch that caused the rapid disintegration of the Galactic Empire. The other part being the destruction of the Second Death Star and all of the resources that had been devoted to it. The Empire's aura of invincibility had been punctured by the events of the Battle of Yavin but it was utterly destroyed by the Battle of Endor. The Empire, much like in Legends, was not meant to survive Palpatine's death and the only person who could save it, Darth Vader, was redeemed by the love of his son.

    [​IMG]

    Trust these guys when they say your world has to die.


    Emperor Palpatine had some sort of plan to follow-up his death. The details of which remain nebulous. This was called the Contingency and was implemented by a mixture of droids and hand-picked agents. Originally, I was of the view that it was just meant to be a "kark you" to the galaxy and presumably Darth Vader since I'm inclined to think that Palpatine assumed if he was ever killed then it would be at the hands of his apprentice. Since then, it has been shown to be a much-more complicated and intricate plan involving the creation of the First Order. It's possible, depending on the events of Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker that it may include Palpatine's resurrection but we'll have to see about that when it comes.

    Phase One of the Contingency was was Operation: Cinder with red robed Sentinel droids seeking out the most die-hard fanatics of the Empire to implement the Contingency. These include Admiral Versio, Moff Raythe, and so on. Fleet Admiral Gallius Rax, a defacto Emperor's Hand if there ever was one, had a different role in this. Operation: Cinder involved weather-altering satellites to be placed in the orbit of thousands of worlds that would eventually cook the population of the planets' alive. Planets targeted included Naboo, Vardos, Burnin Konn, Candovant, Abednedo, Commenor, Nacronis, and other worlds. No attempt was made to differentiate the loyal from the treasonous: both were equally guilty in the eyes of the Emperor.

    [​IMG]
    Take that, Imperial loyalists! How dare you be loyal!

    The Contingency was carried out with the purpose of making sure the Empire is destroyed as punishment for its failure to protect Palpatine and to make sure no one else takes over the Empire after his death. The perpetrators of the attack don't believe they're destroying the galaxy for no reason but accept on blind faith that this is all part of a cunning master plan to restore the Empire. They're delusional fanatics but that's why they're chosen. The perpetrators, however, generally accepted that there was a greater plan at work and the atrocities were necessary to intimidate the public into submission. It was meant to be a show of strength that forced the galaxy to its knees but had the opposite effect of making it clear there was no redeeming the Empire. If loyalty and submission earned the same death as treason then treason was the only rational path.

    [​IMG]
    The mother of the First Order.

    Operation: Cinder backfired tremendously to the delusional fanatics' goal. As we see with the events of Alphabet Squadron, the twin punches of Alderaan's destruction and the Battle of Endor heavily hurt the Empire but it wasn't until this that all but the most fanatical Imperials saw the true horrific face of the regime. The Rebellion also helped save many worlds, winning a lot of badly needed publicity. This is exactly as Palpatine planned. This also has the effect of rapidly increasing the size of the New Republic military as millions of defectors are put to work against their former comrades. The rapid re-stablishment of the Republic Senate on Chandrilla also lent the New Republic a legitimacy it did not possess in Legends until the fall of Coruscant.

    The Empire's regent during this time was Mas Amedda but he was swiftly put under house arrest by the Imperial Security Bureau (ISB). The ISB was secretly under the control of Gallius Rax who used his assassins, codes, connections, and more to eliminate potential successors to Palpatine. Rax also used Admiral Sloane as a figurehead Grand Admiral to rally the military's remnants around. Contrary to some people's statements, was hardly a puppet as she does a lot of diplomacy and gathering of Imperial forces as we see in Aftermath.

    Galliux Rax prevented the NR and Empire's remnant making peace with a terrorist bombing plan aimed at the New Republic Senate under a flag of truce.He also covertly seized control over the entire Empire under the title of Counselor. He gathered the bulk of the Imperial fleet at the backwater planet of Jakku, his home planet, while planning to destroy the world in a cataclysmic explosion that would eradicate both the Empire as well as New Republic. Instead, he was assassinated by Grand Admiral Sloane and the New Republic eradicated the Empire's forces in a lengthy battle. Grand Admiral Sloane escaped on the Emperor's yacht with Brendol Hux, a handful of child soldiers, and the coordinates for the Emperor's flagship the Eclipse. Palpatine had the plan to "purge" the Empire of all weakness and have only the most diehard fanatics gather at the Eclipse flagship in the Unknown Regions.

    [​IMG]
    Shouldn't the Republic remove that?

    Sloane's intentions were to build a bigger, better, and stronger empire. While her Grand Admiral status is questionable, she certainly was a senior officer and in a good position to found the First Order. My inclination was that she did so and, being a fascist, immediately doubled down on all the Empire's worst qualities with child soldiers replacing clonetroopers as well as Stormtroopers. It may have been Palpatine's will to create the First Order but it was Sloane's insights as well as decisions that created the military junta that would become the basis for Star Wars' version of HYDRA.

    Mas Amedda was then used by the New Republic to formally surrender the Empire under the terms of the Galactic Concordact. With most of the Empire's soldiers having defectors, the surviving officers are declared war criminals, conditional pardons are made for non-combatants, and higher ranked members are put on trial. While Grand Moff Randd escapes Jakku with his fleet and there are insane events like a pirate fleet with a Super Star Destroyer, the Galactic Civil War is for all intents and purposes over.

    Mon Mothma promptly demobilized the New Republic military. Given the New Republic military was now mostly ex-Imperials, this made more sense than perhaps was initially apparent. The Military Disarmament Act was implemented a month after the final victory in Jakku, dramatically reducing the New Republic military's size. Princess Leia opposed this act but finds herself overruled. The New Republic then settled into a period of military stability but political instability as the conflict over whether a strong federal government (headed by the Centrist party) vs. a weak one (Populists) began.

    [​IMG]
    A heroic effort to protect our children's future.

    Meanwhile, in the First Order, the organization began its rebuilding of the Empire's might under a new name. They made extensive contact with fringe slavers and begin purchasing massive numbers of human children for training as operatives. Protectorate Gleb oversees this as well as the mass looting of Unknown Region worlds of resources. This is referred to as Operation: Resurrection and goes largely unseen by the rest of the galaxy. Given that Protectorate Gleb was recruited by Inferno Squad during Operation: Cinder, that means the Contingency always included a plan to educate a new generation of fanatics. They also loot whole planets of resources. At some point Snoke, perhaps working for the real Palpatine, seized power in the First Order and became its Supreme Leader.



    The First Order trained its armies of children before turning them into Stormtroopers, Naval officers, and spies. They proceed to start sending out their agents into the galaxy as a whole. These people like Lady Carise start contacting Imperial Remnants and recruiting some while positioning others. They also begin infiltrating the Centrists and subverting them to their own purposes with moderates like Senator Casterfo eventually purged.

    The First Order conquered numerous planets in the Unknown Regions and hollows out planets as well as exterminates whole resources in preparation to create Starkiller Base. Most of what we've seen is less interested in holding planetary populations than gathering resources to build up their fleet to conquer the New Republic. We do see mining facilities and other signs there's a civilian population of the First Order. Not many signs of them but enough to know they exist.

    [​IMG]
    But what about her e-mails?

    Rather than use the Eclipse, Snoke constructed the Supremacy to be the FO's mobile capital. They also use kyber crystals in their star destroyers, possibly from a hollowed-out Illum, that makes their weapons almost unstoppable. Kyber crystal-based weapons are put into many of their new and improved brands of Star Destroyers that would violate any treaties the Republic had with the former Empire, were they aware of the First Order's existence.

    The Centrists successfully seceded from the New Republic with their new laws. However, it's not actually a very large secession. Maybe about eight or nine Sectors worth, enough that it's a big deal but not the end of the New Republic or beginning of the end. Leia's actions may have prevented that from happening. The "public" First Order is presumably swiftly conquered by the actual First Order. Previously, the Republic was unaware of the First Order as it is a "secret" organization as of Bloodline. This is 28 ABY and fairly close to the timeline of The Force Awakens, meaning the public First Order is a fairly recent creation.

    Despite not being Imperials, the First Order is forced to sign the Galactic Concordact. We get some hints in the short stories the First Order has a lot of credits to spend and use them to buy new technology, buy Senators' allegiance, and keep up with the advance of galactic technology. Snoke made a move to recruit Ben Solo and successfully seduced him to the Dark Side with Luke debating killing him only for Ben to interpret it as an actual assassination attempt.

    Princess Leia, disgraced as a politician by the revelation of her parentage, formed the Resistance against the First Order. She has no idea how large or how dangerous the First Order is, only that it is extremely dangerous. The New Republic covertly supports it as both the opening crawl and General Hux both state it. Many NR forces are allowed to join up without losing their ranks. As a deniable asset, though, it fails because the First Order plans to conquer the galaxy. They even begin covert operations to take fueling depots like the Colossus and invade independent worlds. It is only the possible arrival of Luke Skywalker that triggers their final plan, though.
    ====

    Whew. I think this is mostly accurate but would love you guys giving me some feedback, corrections, or additions.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2019
  2. Jid123Sheeve

    Jid123Sheeve Guest

    @Charlemagne19
    I'm a sucker for these big piece together essays! :D

    Funny enough in Agents of Shield (MCU) HYDRA was meant to resurrect like this powerful inhuman but got sidetracked and warped when Red Skull did his thing and then it was resurrected in shield and then you had factions between the Science HYDRA (Red Skull esq) and old school Religious HYDRA (Bring back the inhuman). Makes me wonder how much Sloane and Snoke distracted the FO from it's original purpose and own ends. Snoke said he was using the FO for his own ends. Makes me wonder what losing Rax did to set back any of Sheev's plans...If there were any.

    Also fun fact we know at least according to the Phasma novel that Cardinal was at least a pretty grown full adult to see Rae Sloane be alive and have a meeting the "First Generation" of FO leaders.

    From BlackSpire

    Cardinal on recruitment of adults into the First Order, beyond just the kidnapping of Orphan kids.
    So yeah Resistance also states the First Order recruits adults as well as Orphans.

    P.S: I hope you do a updated one in case Episode 9 gives us some more answers.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 29, 2019
  3. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 30, 2000
    I'm inclined to think that Palpatine expected the galaxy to descend into a kind of Dark Ages chaos of decades with the New Republic and Empire both destroyed. Then his armies would descend on the galaxy and impose a brutal but welcome order. Instead, the problem is incredibly borked because the New Republic has imposed a time of peace and justice throughout the galaxy. So, now, they're going to have to do it the hard way.

    Planet by planet, star by star.

    My theory is that Sloane was eventually killed by Hux and that was how Snoke came to power with his Generalship as his reward. This is just headcanon, though, but it fits with the statement he rose to power over a lot of bodies.

    Yep, poor Tam is now one of the First Order's minions. We also know they brought in some older imperials like Terex. I don't know if Paul Blackthorne's character was recruited at Jakku or whether he eventually made his way there too. We also know the Axamine Warriors were contacted as, essentially, an Imperial themed hate group and given an offer to work for the FO in Bloodline.

    Indeed.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2019
  4. Jid123Sheeve

    Jid123Sheeve Guest

    @Charlemagne19

    I squee.....Squee....

    Oooh, that's an interesting theory. I also have a headcanon too add to that ...And that's in the evil twisted way Sloane being one of the main leaders (Since I have the feeling if she didn't take on the title of Supreme Leader ala Snoke, she definitely was first among equals) actually was the best thing that could have happened to those Imperial Remnants in terms of rebuilding compared to what it would have been under Gallius Rax. Though that's just me

    Question for me now is...Which Hux, Sr or Jr....Phasma novel really never gets into who the Supreme Leader is at the time.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 29, 2019
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  5. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 30, 2000
    Junior.

    It's much darker having her surrogate son figure murder her than the already insane and evil Brendol Hux.
     
  6. Jid123Sheeve

    Jid123Sheeve Guest

    Yep Sloane killed Hux’s surrogate dad Rax and then Hux kills his surrogate mom.


    Also I realized that the FO is more like Cobra from the GI Joe series in many ways.

    Kylo is Cobra Commander
     
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  7. ColeFardreamer

    ColeFardreamer Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 24, 2013
    Regarding Starkillerbase chronology:

    We have images of it under construction guarded by First Order Stardestroyers. Yet also rumors and bits and pieces of its construction beginning already under the Empire, which stripmined worlds for Kyber hollowing them out.

    How much was done by the Empire and how much later only? Who designed it and was that design already planned under the Empire? Or was it a First Order upgrade of another Imperial plan that never had been finished?

    IF Starkiller is Ilum it is planetsized not moonsized and thus its trench area is larger than an entire fleet of Death Stars and requires material and personnel far more than any DS construction ever. So what tricks were pulled to reduce laborforce, time and all that considerably? Alien technology from the UR?

    Or was the planet ripped open by a Kyber mining accident that weaponized its Kyber core and blew out a huge trench chunk. The Empire abandoned it and later First Order only had to refine the trench and add in tech? Given the trench is deeper than average planet crusts compared to planet sizes, was it always a dead world with no molten core? The GFFA has Naboo and other examples of such worlds that still bear life.
     
  8. Jid123Sheeve

    Jid123Sheeve Guest

    For me the real question will always be when the did the Empire make the official switch.....Was it JUST AFTER they went into the UR or did they have to establish foothold before someone said "Hey lets change our name to....IDK....First Order, yeah that works" and then order new business cards.
     
  9. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord 50x Wacky Wed/3x Two Truths/28x H-man winner star 10 VIP - Game Winner

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Currently (thanks to Complete Locations) Starkiller Base's "canon size" is 660km. Small, but quite a bit bigger than the smallest spherical moons in real-life.

    Apparently, according to Star Wars Super Graphic, newcanon Ilum is exactly that size:

    https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Ilum

    (Legends Ilum was much bigger).
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2019
  10. Jid123Sheeve

    Jid123Sheeve Guest

    I remember Star Wars explained saying they changed the size of Illum in NuCanon.
     
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  11. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord 50x Wacky Wed/3x Two Truths/28x H-man winner star 10 VIP - Game Winner

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Might be interesting to speculate on how it still has near-normal gravity. Probably some kind of artificial gravity tech under the surface. Even a ball of pure Osmium (densest stable element) at 660km diameter would have pretty pathetic gravity.
     
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  12. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    I suspect it was an Imperial upgrade the FO could not perfectly achieve. The blast in TFA is as ragged and imperfect as Kylo's saber. If it had been Imperial, the blast would be a refined green.
    The FO do not order business cards, they take them.
     
  13. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2012
    Last few lines from Sloane in Aftermath: Empire's End goes
    "It's time to start over. That is our first order. To begin again. And to get it right, this time."

    So basically I think she got off the ship, ran up the Eclipse and did the whole motivational speech/name change on the spot.
     
  14. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 30, 2000
    Starkiller Base seems to be something actually relatively recently created actually as we see multiple 'test worlds' in STAR WARS: RESISTANCE.

    One of these worlds being the homeworld of the refugee children Kel and Eilia

    [​IMG]
    Which would imply Starkiller Base was created within an year.

    [​IMG]

    The Core Problem shows the First Order also destroyed the solar system's sun.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2019
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  15. ColeFardreamer

    ColeFardreamer Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 24, 2013
    While as others noted above Sloane got the renaming idea right... I think it did not fully stick until they arrived in the Unknown Regions.

    Some points as to how the First Orders arrival went:
    -they faced navigational hazards aplenty
    -they have no maps of the UR and need local allies to provide maps or navigator help
    -they are reliant on whatever in the UR Palpatine had prepared, aside his flagship the Eclipse

    The first shock of the arriving force would be the scope of what Palpatine had hidden there. Or rather who. Maybe Thrawn? Maybe someone else that had maps and an already established Empire of the Hand network. The question is... how would this waiting force welcome the arrivals? Open arms? Hostillity given Rax changed the contingency? Palpatine may have known Rax weakness and expected him to do like he did.

    But however it went down, Sloane and whoever commanded the waiting Eclipse etc. would have to solve the matter of who is in command ultimately. Rank? Knowledge of the UR? what trumps?

    Also in light of TROS new fleet and reveals I wonder why did this never join the FO, or why whas it kept by who from it? Did Sloane and co take what did not belong to them and the rest was hidden from them still thus? Did they overpower whoever was in waiting and change the plan?

    Ultimately though, with the rise of Snoke and his alien navigators the FO got back under control after Sloanes shortlived rule and lack of UR knowledge nearly let her FO selfdestruct amidst the UR terrors, navigational hazards and else. Sloane was still around but no longer topdog after he took over.



    I took the episode to mean SKB testfired and moved through the system draining its sun to do so. But some odd chunks indeed look less blasted and more like mined. Constructing it within less than 1 year is scary and should not be... I mean, they could have another come TROS if true!

    I can see only very few options if it really is constructed in such a short time. Replicator technology of selfreplicating construction droids, nanodroids growing technology like micro-worldevastators that devour ressources and reshape them according to programming. Or massive use of Killik construction forces? They built Centerpoint in Legends for the Architects... they can do so again for new canon ;)

    Heck that'd explain why Hux has to many troops stationed on the surface of SKB.. to rid it of bug infestations and the like once they are done.
     
  16. Dawud786

    Dawud786 Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 28, 2006
    The Core Problem struck me as Starkiller was a long time project. But not that the base's weapon cored those worlds. Those worlds were sacrificed to figure how to build the Starkiller.

    Though, if the planet that became Starkiller Base is indeed Ilum... Ilum was being strip mined well before the Starkiller was underway.

    Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
     
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  17. vncredleader

    vncredleader Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 28, 2016
    What was being implied with Tehar is super interesting to me. Like they clearly have that planned out, and I doubt its just "SKB was built last year" so the logistics will be neat to see when they are finally revealed.
     
  18. ColeFardreamer

    ColeFardreamer Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 24, 2013
    Regarding SKB... one thing of TFA always struck me as weird or plothole:

    To fire it needs to drain a sun, after draining it it needs to jump to a new location for another sun to drain, yet...

    We cearly see daylight on it in most scenes and it only gets dark once the sun is drained before it gets blown up in the final battle.

    BUT wait:

    Finn was on it for sanitation duty in the past. Since then it must have moved several times, no? How could the Resistance find it? In between Finns duty and the Resistance plotting their attack, SKB drained a sun to fire at the Hosnian System. Yet soon after we still see sunlight over SKB when Rey is prisoner there. It must have moved to a new place to drain for the next shot at the Resistance base.

    How could they know WHERE it was? Finn only could have sent Snaps recon flight to the old location, not the new one!

    Only excuse I can think of, it did not have to move due to the system having had several suns and it only drained one of them? Leaving the other for later draining when it got dark? Because when SKB fired at Hosnian Prime and had drained a sun, it did not get dark as Hux and parade grounds are still in daylight! Also seen from space when it fires, half the planet still is bathed in sunlight while firing.

    Guess that solves it?
     
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  19. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Mod-Emperor of the EUC, Lit, RPF and SWC star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 15, 2004
    I suspect the wording of them needing to find a planet for SKB to be installed into meant that they had the proof concept, they just needed to find a planet that could handle it. Installation could take less time than construction.

    The big disconnect narratively is the relationship between Snoke and Sidious. If it is Sidious all along, the First Order stands out oddly as Snoke had to take it from Sloane, Apollin, Hux and Rax.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2019
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  20. SyndicThrass

    SyndicThrass Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 25, 2016
    There’s always the possibility that he was a interloper that might have actually thrown a wrench into things for Sidious.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2019
  21. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 30, 2000
    1. My take on Starkiller base is that it's very possible that it was modular. You could assemble the actual planet-killing gun in space and then lower it down onto the planet through the core like the Death Star superlaser. While you'd have to deal with things like atmospheric rentry and so on, Star Wars has obviously long since solved most of that given how casual space travel is (they also have bombs that drop through space!)

    So really, it's just something they need to dig a trench for.

    2. I don't think we have any proof that Starkiller Base is mobile like Zonoma Seskot. It's entirely possible that they use up the suns of their particular star systems then proceed to have to remove the base and assemble it elsewhere. While this is a TERRIBLE design for a weapon, the Starkiller doesn't HAVE to move since it can fire across the galaxy like the Galaxy Gun.

    Also, they only needed to fire it a few times.

    3. If Sidious does prove to be Snoke or behind Snoke in some way then it's a nice way to tie into the EU potentially. Rae Sloane may have intended the First Order not to be hideously evil and reform it to be "just" an authoritarian government but Palpatine immediately subverted it with his evil-evil ways. But just like in Legends, Palpatine may have needed some time to recover or he might have been dead for some of the time. We don't know.
     
  22. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Mod-Emperor of the EUC, Lit, RPF and SWC star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 15, 2004
    1. Agreed.

    2. It could move, as far as the stats confirmed.

    3. Indeed. It doesn't make immense sense to field an agent early on, unless he is recovering, or his plan all along was to corrupt the next generation.
     
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  23. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 30, 2000
    Oh no, Hux is Cobra Commander.

    We could easily have an entire Sunbow series of him shouting, "RETRREAAAAAAAAAT!"

    We need a Baroness, though.

    A remade Lumiya?
     
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  24. Jid123Sheeve

    Jid123Sheeve Guest

    Episode 9 needs to star like this then

     
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  25. FS26

    FS26 Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 2018
    Snap found starkiller base; Finn actually didn't give the Resistance any useful intel in TFA. I'm pretty sure Starkiller is mobile (the galaxy map said original position & I have a vague memory of a hyperdrive being mentioned)
     
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