ST I Have A Bad Feeling About This - The "Haters" Sanctuary

To be fair, parts of the film feel Like JJ Abrams is slapping Rian Johnson in the face for some of the decisions made in TLJ. I'll also state that the most obvious Reylo stuff is pretty sparse, to the point I wondered if it was slapped on in re-shoots. I mean...I could pull out a line from the end of the films second act and then either cut or rearrange some stuff in the climax to scrub the most prevalent aspects of it and the film would still work as well as it does.

Finn's actually portrayed fairly positively throughout this film. In general he's the one most on task, is the one who is clearly annoyed at this pointless bickering between Rey and Poe and seems to have a growing understanding of the nature of the force. JJ Abrams either always planned for Finn to show increasing confidence and ability or this is his way of making up for how poorly used Finn as in TLJ...but here he just ran out of time.

Honestly....if you axed TLJ from the trilogy and then took this film and expanded it into two films, giving the characters time to grow on screen and actually earn some of the endings they attempt to pull off....well it would've worked better than what we got at the very least.

Also, at that point I wouldn't try to market this as 'The Skywalker Saga' with this film being the end of said saga. I'd call it 'The Age of the Empire' with the prequels covering the Empire's rise, the OT covering it's reign, and the ST covering it's twilight. Honestly I think that's the most accurate way to describe these films as they now are. We've essentially been seeing it all from the POV of one family.

Also I will say they gave a decent reason for Rey not striking down the Emperor in anger when she had the chance...and that, per usual, the Emperor is a lying, liar who lies through his lie hole.

Anyways, it's absolutely clear to me that Lucas Film needs me in a position of power watching over the writing and directing of any future projects set in the Star Wars universe. Iger/Kennedy, I'll even do it for the low low price of a flat $60,000 dollars a year with all travel expenses paid...you've got my contact info via Disney+, give me a holler, we can work together to make most of the fans happy and everyone really rich! If you don't call me you'd be throwing away a fortune, don't be a fool!

 

He's intolerable....simply intolerable

 

It’s kind of funny to see people trying to push this narrative of “Oh the critics hate it, so the audience must love it” just because the inverse was true of TLJ. But so far, it’s IMDB rating is actually a couple of points lower & that’s in spite of the huge controversy of TLJ, which is the first film which didn’t really follow the rhythm of past films.

 

Nah. Only works if you're one half of the Force dyad and communicating with the other half.

 

That's exactly what he has believed ever since he took over....i guarantee it. Why do you think there was never any marketing around the Episode number. He believes he made Episodes 4 and 6.

 

It’s probably for the best none of the PT Music was used otherwise somebody might’ve had the bright idea to play “Across the Stars” during the Reylo moment.

 

Well to be fair @anakinfansince1983 that isn't just a Rey problem as the main antagonist (Palpatine) turn out to be just a puppet basically of the Sith since "all Sith live in him now". I think it was one of those many concepts that might worked well on paper but when you shot it on film it came off as silly and cheap.

The film itself feels that way. It truly was a lot like Batman vs Superman in that there is a lot of stories inside the movie itself that were intriguing and/or worked well on paper but on film it just fell flat. It also did not help they tried to shove an entire new trilogy in one film because this did not even feel like TFA let alone TLJ.

 

This is accurate, I could take this film and expanded it into two films that could work with TFA. I mean, if Episode 8 was about Luke and Rey training WHILE looking for Exgol, but are sidetracked by unforeseen events...then Rey finishing his quest in the final film might work out better. Rey learning her true heritage in the second film and dealing with the fear it brings about in the final film would also work better. Finn slowly realizing (Via Maz and his own experiences) that his 'feelings' are the force speaking to him during the second film...and then taking his first real steps toward becoming a Jedi in the third could be made to work. Heck, Kylo Ren learning in the second film that he's been played for a fool all this time by Palpatine and deciding to break away with his on forces starting an enemy civil war that has the unfortunate side effect of wrecking havoc across the galaxy, that results in him seeking to kill both the Sith and the Jedi in the third movie could work.

Kylo Ren: "No more Sith, no more Jedi...no more division...just ONE order...mine!"

But no...we got this instead....

As my father once told me, God rest his soul, "If you fail to plan, you plan to fail." and this trilogy has proved my old man's words right.

 

Not sure I have time to see it anytime soon. My bad feeling will have to linger a bit longer. But pertaining to the ST it’s been there ever since the “real desert” promo, so nothing new really.

 

@Adept



That is exactly I thought should have happen in Episode VIII or was going to happen. Instead of Luke + Rey being like Luke + Rey stuck at one place, Luke + Rey would go on a mission together as Luke needs Rey's help and it wounds up becoming a spiritual journey as well for both of them. Nope.

 

I guess they kinda forgot that the Force does not make one great and that Force ghosts cannot intervene.

Rey after the TFA becomes less of a character and more of a wish fulfillment. For reasons unknown even to her she's had to be the next Luke. She's never really left to develop and grow with each movie like Luke was. Her version of wrestling with the Dark Side in all three movies and various times loses her to it and she gets worse in this movie. She starts losing the tug of war with Kylo and just fires the Force lightning at Pasaana and later she almost kills Finn cause as he shouted to her to pull back with a big Force push onboard the DS II wreckage. She fights the sharpened tooth Walken Hessian horseman looking Dark Rey and she loses against this double-bladed vision.

There is never any doubt from any of the heroes and past Jedi that she's it, she the chosen one. This is reinforced since Leia deliberaly trains Rey despite somehow realizing she's a Palpatine. We never really feel anything for Rey when she "dies" cause she's a wreak of a character and always so good at everything she does cause which is simply explained she comes from Palpatine's bloodline to answer the Mary Sue objections to her character since her debut back in 2015 that has plagued the character and Kylo is course a Skwaylker so he's naturally gifted and they come this dyad star crossed destined to be lovers cause they're Star Wars royalty. When Ben dies its the same thing, who cares, too little too late. Him battling the KOR warriors was weak since he's like a Marvel superhero fighting a generic thugs with baseball bats , guns and knives.

Palpatine being "all the Sith" more or less is just his new version of "I am the senate". He's just Palpatine,we never see or hear any Sith spirits like Rey with the Jedi aiding her and using her to avenge themselves cause they were all too weak and ineffective but hey its Rey Palpatine the perfect vessel. With Emperor Palpatine, he's just in some other newly created holy Sith homeworld instead of using Korriban or Malachor .

 

So, for all intents and purposes, a zombie of a villain, kept going through artificial means and all of their predecessors being channeled through them, is in a zombie of a movie, kept going through artificial means...

You get the analogy.

 

I still find it weird that Kylo is refereed to as "Ren" all the time. JJ has called him that since the beginning, and it has always stuck out to me in interviews.

It's like when Obi-Wan calls Vader "Darth" in ANH.

 

Time and time again this movie would introduce moments that were clearly supposed to land with a heavy impactful weight and EVERY SINGLE TIME it did not land, felt unearned and at times felt illogical and confusing.

Palpatine is back! That's huge! Actually is confusing and unearned. They gave zero explanation for it. Hope you remember that one scene from that one PT movie to vaguely explain it!

Rey is a Palpatine! Wow! What a gut punch! No it's not. I'm too distracted by the convoluted mess it creates for me to be shocked by the revelation. It's reminding me that they didn't do anything to explain and justify the Emperor returning and it's making me wonder when the hell Paplatine go some lady pregnant, and when did Palpatine's kid grow up? Where was his son during the OT? It's making me wonder why Palps didn't give a crap about his own son but was hugely invested in Rey. It's making me wonder why Palpatine didn't turn his son evil. It's making wonder how Palpatine seemingly left his son's family alone for a number of years before deciding to go after Rey.

Kylo returns to the light side! Finally! No not really "finally". I can tell that the movie wants us to feel like it's been building up to this moment but they never made Kylo a sympathetic enough character for his turn to the light side to be earned. Prior to seeing TROS I actually DID want Kylo to return to the light side but I thought and expected them to give us a sufficient tragic backstory so we would buy into his return to the light.

Rey wanted to hold hands with Ben! Whoa! She DOES have feelings for him! I should feel sad for these two star crossed lovers! What? Why? We don't know Ben. We know Kylo Ren, the guy that kidnapped and tortured Rey, the guy that killed Han Solo, the guy that sliced up Finn and countless others and sat idly by as his friends blew up multiple planets killing trillions of people. He's the guy that is oppressing the galaxy and trying create an even BIGGER evil army capable of blowing up EVEN MORE PLANETS! We're supposed to understand why Rey has feelings for him? He's not family, like Luke and Anakin were. He's just some evil dude.

Aw! Isn't it sad that Ben died right after he returned to the light side? I want to say yes but again we never got to know "good Ben". We have no connection to "good Ben" and I can't feel sympathy for his passing just because Rey had the hots for him and his passing hurts Rey. In the OT they built up the Luke/Vader relationship, and it was a father/son relationship and we understand why Luke, a fatherless son would want his father back. With Rey I' m thinking, "Rey! There are plenty of fish in the sea! Why are you focusing on THIS horrible monster?"

Chewie got the medal at the end! That's so touching and...wait...what? Why is this happening? Oh right, fan service.He didn't get a medal at the end of ANH and fans complained about that so here you go Chewie!

Rey goes back to Luke's old home on Tatooine! Oh it makes so much sense to go back to where it all begin and...wait...what's Rey's connection to this place? None. It's supposed to be a ceremonial funeral for her dead mentors that she's never going to see again and...oh hey guys there you are! Ah right this is scene is really because the audience, not Rey, has an emotional connection to this place.

You thought the Skywalkers were dead? They're back baby! Rey adopted their name! The Skywalkers live! Wait...That's not what I'm thinking. I thinking, "why did they make Rey a Skywalker in all but name only but then eventually give her the name? Makes no sense. Also the lesson of TROS is that Rey shouldn't be afraid of who she is and in theory she accepts herself in the end but...doesn't accept her real last name? I get it. It's like if your last name was Hilter you would change it, but from a narrative stand point Rey denying her real name in a movie about accepting who she really is is muddled beyond belief.

 

Do you have a problem with Palpatine having a kid between 15-5BBY while yes Palpatine was old that doesn’t mean anything. Also I didn’t get the hint that Pryde served with him during the clone wars. He said old wars which could just be the galactic civil war.

 

I just love how they tried to have a End Game "assemble" moment with Lando leading a thousand faceless ships. The audience doesn't care who they are though unlike End Game where you spent 20+ films learning and caring about. You just root for them because they are the "good guys".

 

It's dumb as hell but I liked Batman vs Superman. But one thing that neither version, be it theatrical or the extended cut, could sell me on is the whole Batman vs Superman conflict where Batman is concerned. It sort of worked for Superman, especially in the extended cut, but Batman immediately going 'he's my friend' seconds after impaling his 'friend, with a Kryptonite spear is utter bollocks of the highest order, as is the infamous Martha rubbish.

Where the film shines is Irons' wonderfully acid Alfred, Gadot as WW and that final trinity fight with Doomsday that is a hugely fun spectacle.

But the big difference between it and SW? (And this applies to Man of Steel too) If you don't like it? It's a version of the characters, there are others. The Sequel Trilogy makes the claim - and has the expectation that we will passively go along with it - that the presentation of Luke, Han and Leia are the accurate, definitive versions. No others allowed. It generates an entirely different dynamic and far, far more resistance when it doesn't work.

I think the issue is more how kids are made.

 

Wait what? Puppet Maz? She was cgi in Ep7 and now she's a puppet?

Am i reading that right?

 

Also, if the Palpatine name is Hitler, what's Skywalker? Goebbels? Himmler?

 

Do you have a problem if I do? LOL

I never said I did anyway I made the point that he was scarred and he sired a child very late in life.

While Pryde sounded he said Clone Wars but I could be mistaken on that part if it was "old wars" whatever that meant, presumably the civil war.

 

Well to be fair we don’t know if his son was made the natural ways or through some weird Sith stuff. You can not like Sheev having a kid from a story point of view but from an in universe view there isn’t anything wrong with it yet.

@Vorax I have no problem if you do or do not have a problem with Palpatine having a kid. I just responded as if you did as you mentioned it in the Haters thread so I just assumed you did. My bad.

 

I know right? That's what I thought when first heard the name adoption rumors. It's my understanding from the Bloodline book that when people found out that Vader was her dad it was major scandal and it put her life in danger. What's going to happen when people learn that Rey is passing herself off as a Skywalker, seemingly related to evil Kylo Ren and Darth Vader, but not really because she's actually a Palpatine. Seriously what the eff?

 

Do we really want that question answered though? No matter what answer we get it'll be gross!

 

If Palpatine has a kid and that kid has a kid with all that Force Power...

Why isn't Palpatine's kid strong enough to protect Rey? And why would they sell Rey to some junk dealer on Jakku instead of leaving her in an orphanage on a Core World? Or with literally ANYONE ELSE? She's abandoned during the New Republic - why not get in touch with, I don't know, any one of eleventy billion survivors of the Galactic Civil War and tell them what's happening?

Anyone?

This.