ST I Have A Bad Feeling About This - The "Haters" Sanctuary

Cassian has the benefit of the "moral greyness" that was teased in RO. The ímplication that he did a lot of iffy and shady things on behalf of the Rebellion. Seeing that fleshed out could be interesting perhaps.

 

I think Abrams plan was to have the action and editing move so fast, he was hoping no ones critical thinking would kick in. [/QUOTE]

He did the same in Star Trek https://collider.com/rise-of-skywalker-problems-jj-abrams/

"The button he wants to hit is nostalgia and recognition of the audience. So, for example, when “John Harrison” exclaims, “I am Khan!” in Star Trek Into Darkness, the reaction Abrams wants from his audience is surprise and adulation because they remember Khan from Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan. It’s meant to piggyback on a previous positive memory you had, but Abrams doesn’t acknowledge why this reveal fails to work in his own movie. The Kirk and Spock who learn this information shouldn’t be shocked. Their reaction should be, “Who?” because Abrams created a different timeline. But Abrams goes for the bits of nostalgia at the expense of the whole."

 

I just want to say thank you for this thread existing. When I occasionally read other posts or sites fawning over TROS, it literally makes me nauseous. This thread helps me from going insane...

 

Considering how awful The Cursed Child (who on Earth would like to see that adapted) and the 2nd Fantasic Beasts movie were I'd be okay with WB going in a different direction.

The fact that JJ completely dropped the idea of Luke inspiring the galaxy was the final nail in the coffin. Luke needed to accomplish something other than allowing a small band of resistance fighters escape aboard the Millennium Falcon especially when you consider that Leia and co were in that situation due to Luke abandoning everybody to their fate (which is made even worse now that Luke apparently suspected there was something even more sinister than the First order going with him trying find Exegol). I understand why they chose Han for that scene with Ben but that was the last real chance to redeem Luke somewhat and give closure to those two characters. Ultimately, Luke didn't train Rey, he didn't inspire/unite the galaxy against the First Order and he didn't help turn Ben back to the light. Luke's failure now really is complete.

 

Yeah, no, my point still stands.

Lucas is also open to the critique of others. THAT's how Darth Vader being Luke's father came into play. Folks like RJ have proven he isn't.

A lot of what happened in ROS and TLJ were based on what Abrams and RJ THOUGHT would be cool in a Star Wars movie and not what fit in Star Wars as a whole.

It's also about respect, see?

 

Actually, their reaction should be the same as if someone in a modern setting said “I am Napoleon!” But the gist is right.

 

Yeah, on that note I still feel like this film cements how fan-fiction-y this "Trilogy" is.

I mean really, from the opening credits "The Dead Speak" or whatever, to the fact that REY is Sidious's GRANDAUGHTER!!!

Also Rey shooting Force Lightning ACCIDENTALLY? Really Abrams??



And that is another example about not respecting the source work!!

To Abrams, it's clear Star Wars is just another movie featuring super people doing supernatural things like any other superhero movie from Marvel, and it's not!

 

What really makes it nuts is seeing that timeline for Lando's life and Lando and Luke were there hunting for this thing 13 years before TFA. So that means Lando stayed there for thirteen years for no onscreen reason and that Luke was still out hunting and doing things seven years before everything went to hell. So when did he decide the Jedi and all of it needed to end? Was it just Kylo? He had no other reason to be disillusioned with the whole thing? I guess I have to buy a book to find out. ::imagine Leia's "no thanks" from Cloud City.::

 

At least I can agree with this one.

Ditto. I have ventured into a few other threads, it's not good for my health. I don't get the need to constantly make snarky comments about this thread, either.

 

That's a good point.

I just saw that TROS had a 67% male audience and 33% female audience. Doesn't surprise me. I think the Reylo predicament is partially to blame. There was a time when Star Wars was gaining more female fans, thanks to Ahsoka Tano in TCW, Rey in TFA, and Jyn in R1. However, TLJ was like throwing gasoline on a fire, and it apparently has caused lasting damage. With the exceptions of Leia in the CT, Ahoska, and Jyn, I prefer many of the EU's female characters, such as An'ya Kuro, Darth Traya, Bastila Shan, Satele Shan, Darth Zannah, Lumyia, Mara Jade Skywalker, and Jaina Solo. Imagine if they had filmed the New Jedi Order's Yuuzhan Vong War. People would have gone nuts for Jacen Solo and what I like to call the real Luke Skywalker.

It is telling that the last Star Wars film my Eponym saw in the theater was R1. She was like, "I love this!" She saw the recent things on DVD, and after she saw TROS, she was like, "I feel uncomfortable. I'm like you. I loved Frozen II and preferred it to this."

 

Agreed. And I think what some fans (who say “nobody asked for” a Cassian show) miss is how unique and potentially awesome a spy thriller in the GFFA could be. Sometimes it feels like there’s so little imagination in the broader fandom.

 

I would have preferred a spy thriller to this.

 

I can't stand the "nobody asked for it" rejection as if they speak for everyone.

 

I will say that those who missed George Lucas did not do so without justification. I like Lucas, flaws and all. I think he had some ridiculous ideas and some really good ideas. I mainly appreciated how he let others do their own thing when writing the stories for EU novels, comics, and video games, but he also had a good role with TCW. He worked best as part of a group. That's a lesson against the near-authoritarian control Johnson had for TLJ. I wouldn't be surprised if people dislike Johnson more for TLJ than they disliked Lucas for the prequels. The way I see it, the way Padme was written was the most problematic aspect of the prequels, and the way Rey was written was the biggest quandary in the last two sequel films. I'm seeing a pattern...

 

They aren't shocked. New Spock even has to talk to old Spock to find out who Khan is.

 

I see a pattern and I have a solution. Deborah Chow directing the next film series.

 

Lucasfilm employees are openly laughing about this movie on twitter.

 

Can you post the tweets? I don’t have the patience to dig through that toxic platform.

 

With nothing being absolute (my interests ran the gammut), there is a target audience for stuff like Twilight and there is a target audience for stuff like SW. Women can like both, just as men or they can like one or the other.

Now it is not sexist to say that gothic vampire romance does better with female readers and audiences. Which, in terms of that demographic doesn't exactly have to be the same as women who enjoy fantasy adventure stories or hard SciFi.

SW always had a female fanbase. I personally also like goth vampire romance (which I'm not kidding myself to be anything close to healthy and cute romances). What attracts me to one genre is completely different than what attracts me to the other. Each genre independently can fulfill my needs for enjoyment. Mixing those however does not. Some genres really do not work together.

 

I'm back from this movie and I don't really hate it to my surprise. I think I need a night to think about it, but my first impressions are that the movie had its moments and even fixed some terrible things from TLJ. *Luke was only fixed to a very little degree, but I knew before it was an impossible task*.

What worked well:
- some banther between Rey and Poe.
the hints of Finn being force sensitive throughout the movie *yeah still remains the question why no hints in the previous 2 movies*.
Finally the bad guys were serious again with this new general. He was really good.
No slapstick humor.
Ian as the emperor including the sith planet *it was a nice mix between KOTR and some Harry Potter*
I liked the Ben/Han scene, despite that I did not expect it
I liked Poe throughout the whole movie and finally he had something to do.
The scenes with Luke were good and it was indeed finally a moment I wanted to see for decades to let Luke doing something impressive *it even seemed Mark was smiling to the audiences in that moment*
I also liked the farewell of Leia *I knew this was also an almost impossible task*

What didn't work:
The opening crawl and the dead are speaking....ok we knew they needed finally a serious bad guy, but...
Reylo kiss *ok I was drinking some beer during that scene, but...
why did Rey die after she defeated Palpy....yeah the script needed it???
I am all the Jedi
I'm Rey Skywalker
Sometimes less is more *talking about too many fights/force skype fights between Rey and Kylo* where is the force skype ignore function?
Rey Palpatine, it really felt shoehorned the whole movie and there was no chance for Rey to somehow mentally connect to her unknown parents

 

For some reason - and this happened in the NJOCC a long, long time ago in a forum far, far away - some people really don't like that you don't like what they do. Even worse, you have reasons for why you don't like it.

Where it all becomes tragic is that the outlook that everything must be a to-the-death debate, your view destroying all rivals blinds people to the fun and benefits of no-stakes discussion.

For instance, @ChildOfWinds and I have, over about the last 18 years, talked Dark Empire. I love it, she doesn't but neither of us have had the other trying our minds either. For me it's 'this is why it works for me' but CoW has no obligation to buy in. What tended to result was a fun back and forth dance, I think it's fair to say we both know all the steps even now.

The bigger problem with the ST is it has gone into very serious territory, but without the seriousness of handling to match. This charges the discussions in a very different way and works against a productive exchange.

 

I'm hoping that the Kenobi series leans into the detective story aspect we saw in AOTC.

 

Still no guarantee. And since Lucas didn't make the ST, and you've not read his ST treatments, then there is no point. Only conjecture.

@ChildOfWinds is a girl?

 

O Benny, Benny, wherefore art thou Benny?
Deny thy father and refuse thy name.
Or if thou wilt not, be but sworn my other half of the dyad
And I'll no longer be a Palpatine.

It's like poetry, but it doesn't rhyme.