Lit Reading NJO...Again

She is a Vong agent i guess.

So what do think of how Viqi handled the situation?

 

For some reason I’m re-reading Vector Prime and it stroke me that this volume is Ep. I of NJO.

The galaxy is totally clueless about the arrival of the Yuuzhan Vong. Yomin Carr is the Darth Maul of this volume, dying in the end (with no chance of return ever). When Yomin Carr is revealing his true identity to Jerem Cadmir before killing him, he is defying a direct order of Prefect Da’Gara, which was to let die all the ExGal-members from the Dweebit-haze. We had such defying of Darth Maul in the Darth Maul-comic (Star Wars special 8, Dino-Comics 2001), where Maul is killing Black Sun boss Alexi Garyn, neglecting Sidious orders to kill him swiftly without explanation not to speak of revelation of himself as a Sith, as Maul did. This episode is also mentioned in the Plagueis-novel of James Luceno.

It is also interesting that in the last-stand-chapter of Yomin Carr, Luke Skywalker was very distant – in the control room of ExGal-4 searching in some computers there - like his father was busy over Naboo in the N11-starfighter to fight some other technical abomination – the droid control ship of the Trade Federation. So while both Skywalkers were busy elsewhere, their red-blonde counterparts were fighting and defeating the enemy – in Ep. Obi-Wan Kenobi undid Maul, in VP it’s Mara Jade, who had to do that fight against Yomin Carr all alone. And Yomin Carr and Maul likewise are toying with their supposed victims, before ending them.

And I while re-reading, I realized another striking detail. When Bendodi Ballow-Reese gave his Jetpack to Tee-ubo and went into the Dschungel and Luther De’Ono followed him, Luther was shot and killed. At the first reading, I thought that Yomin Carr is around, killing the crew with a blaster one by one. Only now I saw in some formulations that it was different. A glance to Wookieepedia confirmed that Bendodi shot first Luther, who ran for him and then himself to spare oxygen supply for the two survivors. (One of us has to get back and warn them – just one)


Rebel’s Stand: Somehow I have the feeling that this star lance project is a big bogus. Can it be that the united light show in the Pyria system and the little testing blow at Tsavong Lah’s temporary residence are not connected with each other at all? It seems more like the Ukio-bluff, Thrawn managed together with Joruus C’baoth in the TTT. Am I too conspicuous?

It is obvious to me that the guy in the maschine tending suit under the remnants of that skip at the Borleias base is the new agent, Czulkang Lah is bringing in after Tam Elgrin did quit. And priest Harrar seems happier with his new military companion Charat Kral than he was with Khalee Lah.

@Ausstieg: I’m not finished yet with Rebel Stand, but I know about Viqi’s ending. Actually I did not expect her to survive the waste pit in Rebel Dream. It seems to me that Tsavong Lah, despite his allegations, wants Viqi staying alive in order to surprise him once more. He loves how she fights and the way she’s scheming, though it is not according to his plans always. He would never admit it though – and that is another reason for Viqi to call him a liar. If Viqi would really turn into a believer in the True Way, he would not challenge her that much, I guess. But the way she is materialistic and ruthless, Tsavong has no qualms to use her as a mere tool, contrary how he treated Nen Yim who at least believed in the cause of the Yuuzhan Vong Conquest during his life time.

 

Hmm, it's been forever since I read Vector Prime...so I just decided to look up Yomin Carr on Wookieepedia for a refresher. Why does he go berserk upon seeing R2-D2? This guy has been undercover among the infidels for some time, and there's droids everywhere in the GFFA...why lose his cool and blow his cover at that moment?

Also, he was able to render the atmosphere of the planet toxic and unbreathable with some bioengineered beetles. A whole planet's atmosphere? How many beetles are we talking here? Here on Earth we've been pumping CO2 into our atmosphere, but it's taken over a century before we started to feel any ill effects, and even in the worst case scenario at least we can still breathe.

 

Bit of real-life science: humans only contribute 3% to the total Carbon Dioxide emissions in the atmosphere. The ocean and natural fauna give off more CO2 than all humans combined.

As to Yomin Carr, maybe he was shocked that someone came too quickly to Belkadan and lost it when he saw Artoo.

 

First time posting here, hello all, i'm currently reading through the New Jedi Order series for the first time, and i wanted to share my general thoughts on the series so far here, since i've been watching these forums before.
I'm currently on Dark Journey, so keep that in mind.

Vector Prime: It was a very good way to start off the series, it felt like the beginning of a brand new era in a good way, at first i was a bit confused with Mara's disease, i thought i missed something between the previous books and this, i didin't get the fact that Mara's poisioning was supposed to be off-screen.

This book does a great job setting up the status of the galaxy for the rest of the series, and the philosophical dilemma the Jedi are going to get into, wich i think it was needed, we usually get stories that dive into the conflict between Jedi and Sith, their differences and so on, but honestly this series does something far more interesting in my eyes: It's central dilemma is what even are the Jedi? Is their job to defend the Republic at all costs and be warriors of order, having an organized and institutionalized training? Or are they seclusive monks who explore the living Force and do what the Force tells them, with a more spiritual path?

This is presented in the conflict between Anakin and Jacen, wich i enjoyed a lot, it takes one of the things i heard people complain about the prequels for years and turns it into part of the lore itself (the fact that the Jedi in the prequels are more institutionalized and dogmatic, and do whatever the Republic tells them, as opposed to the Original Trilogy wich clearly shows how being a Jedi is more of a personal thing, not a school-like education program) wich causes conflict between not only the two Solo brothers but the whole Jedi, and this gets more extreme with the appereance of the Yuuzhan Vong and the issue about how to combat them and if it is okay to do extreme things to win the war, but anyway, you can clearly see i really like this plot with the Jedi, it's a good direction for this New Order to have to find it's way.

Now, the series does this very well but what i don't like about Vector Prime is how out of character Kyp Durron looks here, he doesn't feel at all like the same Kyp who got redeemed in the JAT and was struggling with guilt over what he had done, i mean later in the series it doesn get a bit better, but it's very obvious they had a previously established character fit into a role they needed but didin't actually fit character-wise, yeah a lot of time happened between Simple Tricks and the NJO, but it feels rather odd, as if Kyp suddenly forgot all of his previous character development because they needed a Jedi leader to oppose Luke and didin't want a new character to be him, since it wouldn' have the same impact, wich i understand, and i'm not saying Kyp's point of view on the role of the Jedi is unreasonable, i'm just saying they made it a bit too extreme on VP, maybe they should have escalated it as the war went on, that would have worked much better in my eyes.

The Yuuzhan Vong are great as villains, at this point in the series they don't have much depth, but at this point i was already sold on them, Chewbacca's death was very impactful and soul-breaking, plus Han's reaction to it, i like Danni Quee a lot, she's a very relatable character, compared to all the Jedi, the military, scoundrels, pirates and so on, she's the only "regular" person in this series and i think that's why her character works so well for me, even tho i don't care for her pseudo-relationship with Jacen.

Dark Tide: Amazing set of novels, Ganner and Corran's relationship that made Ganner evolve as a person was really good, this is the book where the Jedi conflict goes deeper, and the New Republic is shown to be...pretty useless against the Vong, wich i really have no issue, they are focused on matters they think are of more importance to them, the whole Jedi-Smugglers controversy and so on, they don't care for some zealout aliens in the outter rim, i feel these are pretty good though i don't know if i would call them the best Stackpole books, i think The Krytos Trap and Wedge's Gamble are much better, but this is much better than I, Jedi.

Another thing i like particularely about Dark Tide I is Anakin and Mara's master/student relationship, he wants to get rid of his guilt by protecting her and defeat all the Vong, but she teaches him a lot about not abusing his force talents and trying to live using the Force as little as possible, teaching him some humility.

Agents of Chaos I: This is the best Han novel i have ever read, his grief after Chewbacca's death is very believable and it hurts us as much as it hurts him, seeing him slowly recover from his greif by meeting this guy called Droma and stopping the Vong's attack on the Jedi with Elan is a great story in wich the two plots merge seamlessly, the scene with Han and Anakin at the end was quite cathartic.

Agents of Chaos II: In contrast, this one is kind of... pointless? i liked Droma as a character in the first and this book and his quest to reunite with his family, but Han and Droma's plot for this book leads mostly nowhere, the subplot with Leia trying to convince the Hapans to join the war and the Solo brothers visiting Centerpoint Station was way more interesting, especially because at least that plot impacted the overall plot much more in regards to the Hapans and Jacen and Anakin (whom i consider to be the protagonists of this series) Han and Droma's plot dives deeper into the refugee issue in the Vong War, wich is something i like, seeing the effect the war has over the regular people and how terrible it can be, but generally it feels rather underwhelming compared to the plot of the previous book, Han doesn't develop in any meaningful way or anything, not even his relationship with Leia gets mended in this book, it's just another Han adventure, his sons had way more development than him and they were in, like, 3 chapters.

Balance Point: Now due to the incident in the previous book, Jacen doubts himself and his use of the force to an extreme in this, and views USING the Force as something evil, like using something that is not his, ripping the Universe's energy to accomplish his own desires, wich is the same moral struggle Luke had in Courtship of Princess Leia, albeit more pronounced, and Jacen gets over this in a very good scene where he realizes the Force actually wants him to use it to save lives, as if the energy around him pushed into action to save Leia, i like his arc in this book, it deals with the inherent problem of using the energy of the universe to suit one's needs, and that's why he, during most of the book, refuses to use the force, probably the best thing about this book is this arc, oh, and the Mara and Anakin scenes, of course, i love their dynamic, too bad it won't get explored later, for obvious reasons.

Sadly i think Balance Point also is one of the weaker books from the series, while the characterization is solid and the stakes are high, i feel the book just has too much filler, a lot of time in this book is spend on absolutely nothing, i was hoping for a cutaway to something that didin't involve refugees and their houses, or scientist doing unimportant things that get erased anyway because the Vong destroy everything anyway,it just got very bland and uninteresting, the book picked up at the last part but there was just too much filler for my liking, and yes, i said that i liked the refugee situation in these books, but it really overstayed it's welcome here, overall the way this book is written is what puts it down, regardless of how good the protagonist's character arc is, oh, and Han and Leia's reconcilement felt very rushed, i get she loves him a lot and is finally glad to see him, but at least a bit of dialouge between the two would be nice (thankfully Troy Denning's "Recovery" fixes this).


Edge of Victory I - Conquest: Ok, so... this is my favorite book from the whole series thus far, in fact i would dare calling this book my favorite Star Wars novel thus far, beating Darth Plagueis. Compared to the previous book, this is masterfully written, fast paced but with a lot of moments of introspection, we see Greg Keyes incorporated a lot of elements and characters from YJK and JJK that mostly got ignored in the NJO, wich i loved, we see Tahiri again, and her relationship with Anakin evolves a lot, and the Vong actually attack the Jedi Praxeum, destroying the building we have known ever since A New Hope and, in-universe, was over 4000 years old, this is when the disrupting of the status quo that mostly gives the NJO fame started, this isn't a bunch of side stories with little to no relation to one another or a book filled with pointless scenes to pad out page numbers, this is mostly one story, the battle on Yavin 4 against the Yuuzhan Vong, from two perspectives, Talon Karrde from space and Anakin on the ground, who ignored Luke and everyone's permission just to save Tahiri from a vision he had of her

Now for starters, i love how Karrde is used here, he really has become a hero at this point, and i actually thought Shada died during their mission, so props for that.

But this story is about Anakin, in fact i would call this book THE Anakin Solo novel, he truly feels like he matures a lot from this adventure, not just as a Jedi, but as a person, he's a much more mature Anakin by the end of this tale, even Tahiri says so, he prior to this looked at the conflict with the Yuuzhan Vong in a very simple,kind of naive way, but in this book he meets Vua Raapung, one of my favorite Vong characters (and there are a lot i like by the way) who has an unwavering faith in the gods who is in a crusade to regain his honor and his place as a member of the warrior caste, he learns a lot about the Yuuzhan Vong, and in fact, we do as well, up until this point the Vong have been formidable foes, in Balance Point we had a glimpse of their society, but in this book we have it unraveled upon us, we learn about the caste system, we follow Nem Yim (another top tier Vong character) and her Shaper master commiting heresies for the good of the Yuuzhan Vong people, wich, without directly telling us, makes us realize just how decadent and orthodox their society really is, we really deep down want them to succeed in turning the Vong religion into its head, but at the same time we don't want Tahiri to become one of them.

Tahiri's transformation really broke my heart, i loved her in Junior Jedi Knights with her carefree attitude and child-like behaviour, she was so innocent, and the Vong destroyed her innocence, making her half-Vong and half-Jedi, interestengly, her original arc in JJK was her being half Tusken half Jedi, it's interesting how they reshuffled her character and made her mature in a more traumatic way.

The best part of the book for me is the moment Anakin realizes why did the Jedi have so much trouble with the Vong existing outside of the Force, realizing that Yoda was wrong, there was something that was beyond the Force, and Anakin's resolution is that the Force is part of a bigger truth, something that is part of the universe itself, the concept of good and evil is something that goes beyond the Force, and even without it, he has to use the same principles to combat them, and in turn, he gets to be the first Jedi to even be capable of sensing the Vong, trough his lambent crystal. I love that part, it's just so powerful, and gives Anakin a new way of looking at the Force and how it works beyond the limits of the galaxy, this is where Anakin matures as a Jedi.

But yeah, Conquest is good. Never forget Vua Raapung.

Edge of Victory II - Rebirth: Loved it almost as much as the first book, it didin't feel unnecesary like Agents of Chaos II, this time Nem Yim's plot is about saving a worldship at all costs, even if she has to commit heresy to do it, and in turn, gets rewarded with meeting Supreme Overlord Shimrra himself, whom i felt was a very imposing figure, maybe suggesting there's more to the Overlord than what meets the eye in comparison to his subordinates, i loved that subplot, and Nem Yim in general, the main plot i liked as well, Tahiri dealing with the trauma she suffered on Yavin 4 and her relationship with Anakin blossoms here, plus the plot with Jacen and Han where we explore their relationship and how Han feels inadequate for his super chosen one Jedi childen is very touching, and honestly i never considered Han and Jacen's relationship before, shows what i know about familiar bonds...

All in all, Edge of Victory was the best thing i've read of this series up to this point.

Star by Star: Lastly, this book i feel is actually one of the stronger ones, but pales in comparison to Edge of Victory, the characters all shine here, especially the older generation: Luke, Han, Leia and Mara, their dynamics as couples are very on-point, and this book also introduces us the Barbabels, wich are hilarious, the Myrkr mission starts off calm, goes from tense, to desperate, to soul-crushing, to depressing, Anakin's death was way more spectacular than what i imagined (and yeah i already knew he was going to die because of the internet) Vergere is a very enigmatic character, i really don't get her intentions (i know she's a Jedi because i've known her from the Legacy comic books, wich introduced me to the larger EU back in the day, but i don't know much more about her) wich only makes her more interesting, and her rivalry with Nom Anor is enjoyable villain banter.

Still, this book has a couple of flaws, the characters are interesting and the emotions are all there, but the book seems a little too interested in the action rather than the characters, in some areas it can get quite tiring, i feel the book could use having a breather from all the complex action that overflowed some scenes, and the other flaw i feel detracts a lot from this book is just how bad Borsk Fey'lya's last stand was, it was kind of underwhelming to be honest, i expected better from him.

But i would say the good outweights the bad, my 2 favorite things about the book are that Tsavong Lah gets a lot of character introspection, and honestly i feel he became a really interesting character now, i felt sympathy for him in a couple of ocasions and seems like a nice guy to hang out with, and lastly, and most important of all: Mara cooking some Tatooine meals for Luke, that is just comedy that writes itself.


Overall, i'm enjoying myself so far with this series, i'm very interested in seeing how it continues, sorry if this post is too long, i hope i don't get banned, i just wanted to go a bit in depth on what i think works and doesn't work in this series.

 

Damn. Now I want to re-read this. More stuff for the backlog....

 

You know, it's been a while, but I remember agreeing with you on Agents of Chaos when I tried to reread it. The first one is definitely wonderful. It's the NJO-era successor to the Han Solo Trilogy/Han Solo Adventures books, which split the difference between showing you Han's adventures and taking you on a tour of the GFFA's underworld. And then the second one was... meh? I actually stopped reading partway through, and don't remember much about it in general.

 

Yeah, it felt like Luceno really only wanted to write one book but the contract said he had to follow a duology format similar to Dark Tide, but that's just my guess.

 

Welcome aboard! I envy you getting to experience the story and mystery unfold for the first time - I think there are a lot of surprises ahead for you. My understanding of the first book: R. A. Salvatore HAD originally written a new character. It was the publishers who thought the character fit to be Kyp Durron, and recommended that he use an existing character rather than write a new one. If he doesn't seem to fit, it's because he was never intended to be Kyp in the first place (I'm not sure the author even knew who Kyp was).

 

Thank you i can definetly share the sentiment, recently i gave a friend of mine a couple of my SW: Republic comic books and i enjoy seeing his reactions to stories i already know front to back.

As for Vector Prime, it's kind of obvious at first that they wanted to go for a "soft-reboot" of sorts, primarly working with new characters and concepts, and reworking older characters, putting them in new positions that now define them, such as Borsk being Chief of State (that title is so much better than Chancellor by the way) and Kyp presiding the "opposition" to Luke in the Jedi, but over time older elements of the story got incorporated, like Tahiri, Tenel Ka, Zekk, Ikrit and those characters, i have to say i'm glad they didin't ignore them completely, and in fact they took they storylines further, such as Tahiri whom i already talked about.

 

I think part of what gives the impression that they originally wanted to focus on new characters is that the first book is written by a Star Wars newcomer. Story lines being continued into the following books necessitated that significant page time be given to the series' established characters, and there were limits to how much new characters could be added to each book once Star Wars veterans became involved. As the plot evolved, there was opportunity to focus more and more on pre-existing characters. As to the point about existing characters finding themselves in new roles - I agree, and am of the opinion that it is one of the best decisions they made. They give a real feel that there has been a passage of time, as well as characters having to find new paths in the aftermath of the end of the last war. I really liked Borsk Fey'lya as Chief of State, Gavin Darklighter as leader of Rogue Squadron, etc. I really like that Wedge Antilles comes back not to jump in the cockpit of an X-Wing, but to be a consultant. The series takes seriously the idea of passing the torch to the next generation. It's a shame that there was so much regression after the series ended.

 

Ultimately, Wedge doesn't come back as a consultant, but as a flag officer. Which was a really satisfying place to put him, since we'd seen him acting above his rank for years and we all knew he could handle it.

(Technically, we've also already seen him as a general in the Bantam era - but usually still in fairly small scale operations, and often as a front-line general who'd jump into a cockpit or get roped into some ground operation as soon as the opportunity arose. I don't think we'd ever seen him as simply the mastermind commanding entire campaigns from headquarters, as we do in the NJO).

 

"Wedge Antilles, the man who failed to lose."

As Tycho Celchu said it. He wanted to lose an engagement but the Lusankya buggered it for him.

 

So you are two books behind me. I'm also reading NJO for the first time. Though I know many things due to spoilering in this thread and Wookieepedia already. But it doesn't downscale my pleasure in reading too much.

I was also irritated by that. Anyway, there is a nice fanfiction about this event at fanfiction.net with an alternative ending though but very vivid on the main events six weeks before VP.

Sold on them - I read this formulation for the first time, but I think I'm sold on them too. R.A. Salvatore really did a great job here in introducing them. And no, Danni Quee is not the only regular person. Nom Anor is her counterpart in this regard. But both have breaks in some volumes.

I can assure you that the authors of NJO didn't care for what you call a pseudo-relationship of Danni with Jacen either. This is not a pairing anyway, but a clear case of unrequited love as you find that term even as a tag in "Archives of our Own".

What me strikes at VP was, that one time, Helska IV on some occasions in VP and in Wookieepedia is described as a planet made wholly from water. But then R.A. Salvatore is writing about volcano-activities in the ocean. Volcanos can't be made from pure water, can they? In my imagination there must have been at least some fishes and weed at Helska IV. But of course, when the world ships did vanish, no Obi-Wan could sense the crying of millions before eternal silence is snuffing them out.

Actually I didn't care for the Droma line so much either, but the Hutt line with the introduction of Nas Choka and Viqi Shesh was very interesting.

Fixed.

If you want to know more about Vergere, just read "Rogue Planet" from Greg Bear. That is kind of a prequel to NJO, regarding Vergere and the Yuuzhan Vong. It came out in the wake of NJO, not revealing too much, but you may recognize much while reading "The forgotten Planet" "Final Prophecy" etc. from NJO.

Concerning the action in SbS, Troy Denning is great in causing confusion, not only for the characters, but for the readers too. While some scenes are stretched very far, other small but important details are squeezed into the shape of a singularity in a black hole, not easy to detect and you may wonder if you did miss something while reading on. Some people say, Troy Denning is evoking such confusion on purpose, to water board the reader even more into confusing scenes. Just to cite Darth Guile: "What celestial body is more luminous than a singularity? Hiding in plain sight but more powerful than all."

Fey'lya's last stand for me was good. I did not expect such. And I was glad Tsavong Lah didn't come down to sign the Bothan's pretended capitulation because - just as you said - Tsavvy is such a nice bloke to hang out with.

Anyway, you are not banned for too long post - rather for hacking them into pieces and posting them as multi-postings without anybody else butting in with another posting.

I'm reading on Rebel's Stand. I find the way very interesting, how Leia and Han at Vannix were refusing Addath Gaden, who was more sympathetic to Leia, preferring Admiral Apelben Werl instead. Leia is really tough towards Addath Gaden in the end - for some reason. Fasald Ghem - what an amazing turn! I think I will also use that reporter one time.

I laughed several times while reading. Tarc's remark about the monkey lizard in regard to Tam. Han's banter with Tycho Chelchu after returning to Borleias. The flight of Han from Aphran IV was also very entertaining, when C3-PO and Artoo did fop that droid with faked pictures of Corellian food.

Viqi at Coruscant reminds me so much on the princess in the fairy tail "King Thrushbeard", where the king is sending the princess to some humble work to wipe out her haughtiness. I don't know if Tsavong Lah is assuming Viqi to die here but he doesn't seem to believe anyway that Viqi will ever turn into a true follower. He seems very pragmatic in her regard, more stubborn regarding the advice of his father.

 

That's also what i feel, the characters grew, feel like we've known them for a while (and we do), one of the better examples for me is Luke, while most people call Luke in the post-RotJ EU boring because he is "too perfect" and "without conflict", i totally disagree with that notion, Luke in this series is tested as a master, he has to try to keep the Jedi together but simply can't keep up, he has to decide how are the Jedi going to operate from now on, and on top of that, he has dealt with Mara's illness, and now has to get used to being a father in such desperate times, that's very human, he doesn't feel like the young and naive hero we saw in the OT era, nor the inexperienced but powerful Jedi Master we had in the Bantam era, he has learned from his previous adventures, and now faces things that are new to him, and that's what makes it interesting for me, he isn't a static character, none of these are, they feel like real people, and that's what writers should always focus on when writing characters.


Dark Journey suprised me, i wasn't expecting it to be this good.

Now, i haven't talked a lot about Jaina here, heck, i think i didin't even mention her yet, and that's probably because up until this point she hasn't been the most interesting character for me, while her brothers got into a philosophical debate and recieved a lot of introspection, inner crisis, doubt, development and growth, she's been mostly static as a character, and compared to Anakin and Jacen, seems almost oblivious to the whole Jedi philosophy debacle, wich certainly makes her the most pragmatic of the three, wich i can understand since she's been apprenticed to Mara, while the boys were Luke's apprentices, but overall i feel she's been neglected by the authors.

This book, in turn, deals primarly with her inner struggle, she slowly, by closing herself to others and hiding her emotions, begins turning to the Dark Side to get revenge on the Vong, and i like how gradual it is, it's not overt and it does a great job of showing her own justifications for doing what she does, and i like how it builds upon a small bit of introspection we get from her in Star By Star, where she realizes she's been numbed to emotional suffering since she lost a close friend of hers (i think it was on Balance Point but i could be wrong) but Anakin's death gave her a very emotional response, this book builds on that, and she slowly turns to the Dark Side. I like this, a lot, it finally gives Jaina the attention she deserves, and her overcoming her Darkness feels earned after realizing what she's become, while Luke saw Vader as the thing he didin't want to become, Ta'a Chume is what Jaina sees herself if she continued on this path, and this book actually builds up that scene in YJK: Shadow Academy, where Jaina and Jacen fought each other, and gives it more weight, but i think her arc wouldn't be so memorable if it wasn't for the inclusion fo Kyp in this story.

This story, for me, is the redemption of Kyp Durron, both literally, and as a character. I already told you guys how i felt his inclusion in Vector Prime as this hothead angry Jedi felt rather out of character at that point, and later books smoothed it out a bit, the presence of the Vong certainly help make his extreme approach much more understandable, and he clearly turns darker as the war goes on, but this book finally acknowledges Kyp's character as it existed prior to the NJO, from the first scene with him i could tell i was seeing the same character i've read about in the Bantam era books, it shows us how he feels remorse for all the pilots that die under him, he remakes his squad only for them to die, everyone on his command dies, and his aggresive stance on the Vong seem to lead nowhere, he reunites with Han and Leia, and in a conversation with her, we get that everything he's done was in a desperate attempt to make up to the Galaxy, wich i find reasonable, his stance was always of fighting the evil that menaces the Galaxy, in the Jedi Academy Trilogy, he turned because he wanted to destroy the Empire and wronged everyone, in Simple Tricks, he tries to make up going around in the Galaxy helping people, in Darksaber, he takes the fight to the Empire again, this time not to get revenge, but to defeat them and protect the Republic, in Leviathan, he isn't saciated until all the souls the Leviathan absorved were liberated, see what i mean? he's always been about fighting the bad guys, but, in this book, when he appretices Jaina, he sees a lot of himself in her, and doesn't like what he sees, and he understands that there are some lines that isn't okay to cross, and tries to keep Jaina from commiting the sames mistakes he did, at the end of the book, he manages to help Jaina get through her inner Darkness, and in turn he redeemed himself while doing so, i love this arc for Kyp he and Jaina saved each other, wich is a great idea for a redemption arc, again, i would have liked it more if his aggresive tendencies were introduced more gradually back in the first book, but as it is, this is a very good arc for Kyp Durron, and it's all thanks to this book.

Speaking of Jaina and Kyp, i like their master/apprentice relationship, even tho some of their pseudo-flirting at the beginnig was kind of...creepy, considering Kyp is like 32 years old at this point or something, and Jaina is 17, in fact another moment of creepy flirting was at the beginning of the book, the strike team is escaping the Worldship, the Vong are about to destroy the ship they stole, and Ganner flirts with Jaina while she sits on his lap.... kinda weird...

But turning that subject into something we can all enjoy, i love Jag and Jaina's dynamic here, heck, i love Jag Fel in general in this book, he knows his stuff, is a very experienced fighter and pilot, and has a mission to win this war... but is awkward as hell in showing his emotions, and Jaina feels she's inadequate for him since he's the son of Baron Fel while she's a Rebel girl, and in fact this plot point isn't even finished when the book ends so i wonder where they're going with this.

I enjoyed the Hapan politics here, you could argue the main villain in this book is Ta'a Chume and not the Vong, the whole Jaina having to marry Isolder was hella creepy, but it is meant to be that way, Ta'a Chume only cares about having a queen that can combat the inevitable Vong invasion on Hapes, i can't say that's a bad motivation per se, but her way of going about it is what makes it despicable, plus, i love how, every time she does some insidious stuff, Tenel Ka is just like "yeah, that's my grandmother, alright", speaking of Tenel Ka, we finally get scenes from her perspective, wich suprised me, i found hearthbreaking how she was sad about Jacen's dissapereance and how Jacen only looked at her as a friend even though she loved him, now, correct me if i'm wrong, i haven't read past the first six books in YJK, but this may be the first time her feelings are this explicit (even though they were pretty obvious to begin with, lol), her sacrifice by the end made sense, she sacrificed her life so that Jaina gets to live hers, it's kinda sad, honestly, given that she thinks Jacen is dead, she probably believes there's nothing else she can do.

I like the dynamic between Harrar and Khalee Lah, and the priest in particular i found very interesting, he slowly ends up adhering to this Jeeday Heresy, he progressively associates Jaina to Yun-Harla, the Trickster, and with Jaina's little trick to fool the Dovin Basal, he is pretty much convinced, as is most of the crew on his ship, slowly the Yuuzhan Vong are filling themselves with heretics, i'm very interested in seeing where this goes, especially given Harrar is still alive by the end of this book.

Speaking of the Vong, we get a lot of how their biotech works in this book, and Jaina and Lowie find a way to exploit it, this is another thing i loved about this book, the biotech thing probably isn't for everyone, but i found it fascinating, and a logical extension of the Danni Quee plot on the Yammosk in the last book, the heroes are finally beginning to understand this enemy.

Despite all the things i love about this book, it still has some flaws, for starters, i feel Isolder is way out of character here, he's nothing like he was in the previous books, for one, he is totally ok with divorcing from his almost-vegetable state wife due to there being fights between them, wich feels... wrong, i mean, she got this way due to the Hapan fleet being destroyed in Agents of Chaos II, and she lost her son due to this, and keep in mind, that's Isolder's son as well, and he doesn't even care, he is supposed to be a very good and caring guy, why is he like this in this book? it looks like he's okay with how his mother operates now, it doesn't look like the same character as before, and keep in mind, i'm not just comparing him to how he was in Courtship, no, in YJK, he was 100% supportive of Tenel Ka being a Jedi and having nothing to do with Hapan politics, but here.... he wants her to take the throne, almost as if he's willing to force her, i mean i get that there are few options in this situation, but it's not about what Isolder does, but how he behaves is what bugs me.

And the other thing i didin't like about this book was the pacing at the end, for starters, this book begins right after SbS, wich i like, usually we get an unspecified time jump for things to cool out between books, but not here, here we get right into the immediate aftermath of the Myrkr mission, we get to see how that terrible experience affected everyone, we see Anakin's funeral, wich i think it was an amazing and powerful scene, we get Jaina slowly becoming distant towards her friends and more aggresive, we get a lot of tension between Jaina and Kyp, a lot of buldup of Jaina understanding the Vongtech and preparing for the final battle... and then the final battle goes about in two pages... i mean, i get it, the important part is Kyp and Jaina's redemption, but by making the third act go by so quickly it felt rather rushed how everything played out, Kyp gets his X-wing exploded mere seconds after engaging, and the book doesn't have any details on the fight, we don't get to see any of it, we don't see Jag and his boys finally get head to head with the Vong, any of it, this book could have benefited from having 30 or 40 pages more, that way the third act wouldn't feel like it came by so quickly.

Luckly the pace is corrected in the Epilouge, wich serves as a great ending for this book, because if it ended in the previous chapter it would have been very underwhelming, and that's coming for someone who complained about Star by Star being overly-descriptive of it's battle sequences, it just feels like it had a lot of build-up but no pay-off, but that's just me.

But overall, this was a great book, the redemption story for Kyp and Jaina was very well made, i enjoyed the Hapan politics, Tenel Ka got a lot of protagonism, the way Han and Leia reacted to their children dying broke my heart, Harrar was a very human character, with his longing for something to truly believe in, and the heresy subplot gets even more intriguing. This book really did suprise me.

 

Regarding out of character Isolder, I agree, but I think if we want to reconsile his behavior in this book inuniverse with his behavior in previous books, we need to take a closer look at his own flaws and suppressed emotions.

In COPL he was rebelling against his mother and for all he achieved, he did not get Leia, nor the reforms he wanted for Hapes and announced at COPLs end. Hapes is slow to change and it did change a lot from COPL days to Tenel Ka's reign in later books, but far from what Isolder wanted to achieve and at a much higher price he ever expected.

Isolder loved Leia but settled for Teneniel, who he learned to love too. Likewise Teneniel wanted Luke but settled for Isolder. They were a nice couple and made it work but I get the feeling both still longed for the love they originally wanted even if understanding they could never get those. Their marriage went well but was complicated by Ta'a chume, as was their reign, their reforms, their parenting.

By the time of Dark Journey, it all summed up. Isolder was the perfect charming lover in COPL, the perfect father in YJK and the perfect ruler in early NJO alongside his wife. But since then, they lost a large chunk of the fleet and people, and with that the support of their population. Ta'a and other rivals got a major foothold in hapan politics. And despite that inner turmoil and facing potential inevitable invasion by the Vong, Isolder in addition to all that lost his wife, his son and nearly his daughter too to a suicide mission by the Jedi he entrusted her to.

You can see this man got it all and lost it all really quick. Now he is pressured by his mother to do something to solve the issues (she in part created for her own ends, in part just subverted). As Isolder despite his love for Leia settled for Teneniel in COPL, he now seems to falter again and despite his love for Teneniel would settle for Jaina to save Hapes at his mothers pressuring. He'd even get a young copy of Leia out of it, which is tempting to a man his age and with his feelings for Leia. Especially in Hapan society which is not affected by age-gap awkwardness like we are (see Ta'a having a consort that is younger than her own son and closer to Jaina's age herself).

Still, and as struggling as Isolder is, he is wise enough to hope his daughter will take the throne so he does not have to do something he knows Leia and Jaina might regret. He does not want to force it on his daughter, but he knows only Tenel Ka is strong enough to withstand Ta'a chumes influence, with or without the Force, which came as a bonus here.

 

welcome @Irredeemable Fanboy

Glade to see your enjoying the NJO.

Jaina doesn't get as much focus as the boys, which I think is a shame. I like her arc in Dark Journey (even if I feel she comes out of it WAY to quick, I would have liked more of that), are you onto Enemy lines books next?

 

Eventually. I was referring to his first introduction in the series - when he is a retired officer who basically shows up at Gavin's door asking "What can I do to help pitch in around the office?" For me, that was a more satisfying role for his character. I'm not generally a fan of the pilot turned fleet commander trope that was very popular in the EU. I am generally a fan of the old guard getting to mostly retire.

 

I haven't thought of him in that way, maybe because he's a Vong and i'm not supposed to root for him, but, thinking about it, he feels like the most "regular guy" among the Yuuzhan Vong, since he isn't overtly religious, nor is he too much of a fighter compared to his higher ups, and we are sorta rooting for him to get their approval, as Tsavong Lah and the other high officers really start to hate him when his plans fall apart. Maybe i didin't think about him that way because this is a dynamic we only see playing from the Stackpole books onwards, in Vector Prime, he's very mysterious and a main villain, he is the one giving orders in that book, instead of recieving them, still, he doesn't loose his core traits, he's still pretty intimidating when he wants to, and he's very cunning and resourceful, and he's the most familiar with the Galaxy, so that gives him something over the other Vong.

So i agree, Nom Anor could be called the pov character for the antagonists' side.

And, speaking of him, i like his rivalry with Leia a lot, it's been bult up since the first book, so i wonder if Leia is going to be the one that finishes him off at the end.

Another thing i really like of the Vong is how we get a feel of enemy progression as the series goes on: on Vector Prime, the heroes face the Praetorite, wich acted as a vanguard for the real invasion, then on Dark Tide we know Shaedo Shai, who is a commander from the actual Vong army, and then we go higher until we meet Tsavong Lah and, at the point i'm reading, he's in center stage, while Shimrra was introduced on Edge of Victory II, he's more of a mysterious figure that leads everything, and i'm sure i'll get to see more of him as the series reaches its final books.
I like that progression, it makes the Vong army feel as massive as it is, while going from Yomin Carr to the Supreme Overlord, progressively making the stakes higher.

Good thinking, that's a good way to reconcile it in-universe, though i disagree with the notion that Isolder and Teneniel still loved Leia and Luke, because it was made clear in Courtship that Isolder really wasn't in love of Leia and he was just doing what was best for Hapes, but then he met Teneniel and fell in love at the end of the book (but yeah you could say that, in a way, he was making up for losing Leia due to how rushed their pairing came to be in the book) but i think their love was genuine, because we don't get anything that suggests otherwise.

This post kind of puts into words my inwards justification for his actions, as i said before it's not like his actions don't make sense or like they have much of a choice, since the Vong are about to invade Hapes, but the way he goes about it doesn't mesh well with his prior characterization for me, but maybe i'm just rambling on this because i really liked Isolder in Courtship.

As for the Hapan society, with Tenel Ka on the throne maybe we can get some real changes to their society, i like the concept that, even though the characters want to change it, sometimes a society is too corrupt to just change from one day to another, and it requires time and sacrifice, the sad thing is, Tenel Ka is probably going to be absent during most of the later books, now that her duties as a queen demand her attention.

Yeah i'm sure it feels it went out if it quickly because the book itself wraps up too fast for my liking, but in regards to her arc i feel it was handled well, it's just that they sped up the third act too much, wich i don't understand, the book itself is pretty short, shorter than a lot of Bantam books even, so i don't get why they were in such a hurry.

And yes, i'm going for the Enemy Lines books next, those were the first NJO books i got my hands on and they've been waiting forever to be read.

 

Have you read Dark Nest or Legacy of the Force?

Yeah I would have liked to see Jaina have to pull her self out of it more. Rather than just go, 'nah done being evil'. It could easily have added 50 more pages or even if some of the stuff she did came up in later books (like how she mind wiped Lowie) but it doesn't, which is a shame.

Ah nice. My first NJO book was The Unifying Force.

 

Nope, i haven't read those, i'm pretty much going in chronological order for the post-RotJ EU, even though some of the Bantam era novels i've read out of order, i haven't read anything beyond the NJO era besides the Legacy comic books, so since you mentioned this, i guess Tenel Ka doesn't just dissapear, that's great, i like her a lot.

As for the fanfic @Sudooku sent me, it was very nice, it builds it's own canon so to speak but it is largely consistent with the actual story, and it was nice actually seeing how Mara got infected by the Vong plague i mean there's nothing wrong with things happening off-screen as long as it makes sense, but i guess i've become too used to seeing everything important that happens in this universe, the EU spoiled me i guess. But on the other hand, yes, Nom Anor and Mara's first meeting leaves a lot of questions when first reading the series, you would think something that important is supposed to be featured IN the novels.

 

With out spoilers, I can say that no she does not disapear after NJO.

 

I don't think it's over for Jaina feeling dark in vol. X. DJ was just the beginning of melting the icelation, she had erected around herself. There are hints here and there in Enemy Lines about her soul repairing going on. Jacen is still amiss and in Rebels Stand you see clearly how Jaina is like a flower opening again. At first she confesses her feelings to somebody, then she agrees to go out with a bunch of friends. She exchanges some thawing words with her mother. All these steps to regain a kind of normalty lost during the war. A silent but important victory. And being stuck in Rebels Stand, I suppose there are even more things to come in this regard.

Shawnkyr's open words to Fel indicate for me that Fel won't be around next time - if not until LOTF. And my assumption about the new super weapon seems to be true. Borleias IS Ukio.

 

I'm a fan of that too, but I don't think that means it should have already happened in the NJO.

It's only 25 ABY. Luke, Leia, Mara et al are only in their forties, Han is in his fifties, which isn't retirement age even on Earth, let alone in the GFFA. Wedge is somewhere in that ballpark. He's military, so conceivably he could already be retirement age, but with an emergency like the Yuuzhan Vong War it would strain belief for the New Republic military to have left an officer with his skills and his iconic status retired - or even assigned to consultant work.

At this point I don't think the Rebel Alliance generation should be retired, I think they should mostly be in leadership positions while the next generation gets to do what they did in the OT. Which for Wedge, at least is what happened. After the Yuuzhan Vong War is when they should have started retiring.

 

I totally agree on that, i loved seeing Wedge in command of the Lusankya back in Crimson Empire (even though, with that short hair he looked like James Franco's Harry Osborn in that comic book, but whatever) and Luke being the leader of the NJO, it's funny how Leia has been on a leadership position back in the Bantam era (when she was Chief of State) but still she was involved in a lot of fights and adventures, and now that she's retired from the political scene and helps Han with his pseudo-piratery to help the Jedi, she is for the most part taking the back seat for the new generation, so the old guard being the ones that plan out the battles and do most of the big power plays fits very well with how this series is structured, i don't think they have to outright retire to make the "next generation" feel work.

And on top of that, older characters like Talon Karrde and Garm Bel Iblis are STILL on the move even after all this time, makes me think that maybe at lest Garm should have died of old age along with Mon Mothma in the time between Vision of the Future and Vector Prime.
As for Karrde, it would be nice if Shada inherited his criminal organization once he passes away.