Full Series The Clone Wars 7.12 - Victory and Death (SERIES FINALE!) - Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

Any idea on how much time...

Spoiler

from the ship crash to when Vader shows up?

 

Wouldn't it be two years at minimum? Because Clones weren't phased out until about two years after the clone wars ended.

 

Just when you thought Darth Maul couldn’t be more savage and evil - “You wanted this chaos” (his only words the entire episode. Just when you thought Ahsoka’s mastery of the lightsaber wasn’t good enough she fends off half a battalion long enough to allow Rex to get to the Y-Wing, and Rex staying my her side even in the face of possible death is the turn meaning of family.

The only thing that could have made this better and it was already perfect was the Imperial March after Darth Vader picked up Ahsoka lightsaber.

 

The finale was sort of the opposite of Shattered for me. The finale had an amazing second half/ ending and a decent first half, while Shattered had a decent second half and an absolutely phenomenal first half (perhaps the best stretch of TCW in its run, and the reason Shattered gets a 10 for me). This was not as good as the last two, as I wasn’t impressed by the over the top action and return to the traditional and overly bombastic TCW score (with too much choral work this time - unjustified given the small scale), but the episode stuck the landing so perfectly that it’s still up there with the best. And they really nailed making Vader’s pose, in profile, match animated Anakin’s pose. Would have been good to get one more beat of Anakin turning into Vader over the past two episodes, but I understand the desire to not want to be seen trying to “improve” on Lucas’ ROTS, even though there’s lots to improve on, IMO.

8.5 on this one. But man did Filoni close TCW with a bang. Excellent job.

 

What I meant is if we saw these episodes before Rebels then while watching it we wouldn't have already known what Ahsoka, Rex and Maul's fate would be until the end of the episode. As it was we all knew they would all make it so there wasn't the same level of anxiety over their fate as they made their way through the crashing ship.

 

Makes sense...Yeah, that’s what I’ll go with. Episode improved. Thank you.

 

So now that is is done....how long until someone cuts together RoTS and SoM.

 

It’ll be on YouTube before midweek knowing SW fans; and us being on quarantine

 

Since Hoth is a planet and not a moon, no, it won’t be revealed to be Hoth. And after all the “this planet with the same look as that existing planet is actually a new planet” we’ve gotten in the Disney era, what makes anyone believe this kind of thing anymore?

 

With breakdown, analysis and guest commentary; who knew in a time of no sports Star Wars would rule the world.

 

So now that all is said and done, what was the big thing the producers were all talking about that "will change everything and how we look at the Star Wars universe"?

 

8/10

Still a very good episode, but weakest from the whole arc. In general, the Siege of Mandalore peaked for me in Part 2 (the best episode of TCW for me) and then it kept getting weaker. Part 3 and 4 are still great episodes, and SoM is probably the best story arc in TCW, but from the moment Order 66 happened, it just lost the tension and drama for me.

The rest of the arc, and especially this episode, just became too predictable. Everything happened exactly the way I expected, there wasn't a single surprise for me. Its fun to watch, but I didn't feel any strong emotions either way.

We knew Ahsoka, Rex and Maul are all gonna escape without any harm, and that all the clones and the SD will be destroyed, so there are no witnesses. Even the Vader scene at the end was expected, but it was still lots of fun to see him in TCW style animation plus stormtroopers and snowtroopers.

One thing that bothered me while watching this episode, and in general in the whole arc, was also just how powerful Ahsoka is. The way she was portrayed, she should be sitting next to Yoda and Mace on the Jedi Council. She's pretty much in the top 10, if not top 5 most powerful Jedi we ever saw on the screen at this point. Poor Luke, why do we even need him. If Ahsoka wouldn't have been hiding and instead been around during the OT, she could have trained Luke, and together they would have taken out Vader easily in TESB. Not to mention, if Ahsoka would have helped Luke with rebuilding the Jedi Order, perhaps the whole Ben Solo going insane thing wouldn't have happened.

Mod Edit: Nope. . Somebody should have died at the end of this arc. If not Ahsoka, than Rex. Imagine the powerful tragic moment, if Ahsoka would be forced to kill Rex to save herself because of Order 66.

 

Yeah lets not go there @MrDarth0. We have had enough of that kind of baiting lately. Knock it off.

 

Yes! The cruiser sinking beneath the clouds, but Ahsoka and Rex flying away, was simply gorgeous!

 

When it comes to the discussion of whether or not this moon is Hoth... IRL snowball earth as they are called are said to be some of the most common exoplanets and that probably would go for moons too. I like the idea of a planet with dynamic weather patterns and seasons. This could be the equivalent of this moon's equivalent of where Rochester, NY.

 

Someone did die though. Jessie. And an entire ship full of Rex’s brothers and clones that Ahsoka has served with for three years. Not to mention R7 and the other two droids. And that was despite Ahsoka’s purposeful effort not to kill them. Rex lost hundreds of his brothers because he made a choice to put his loyalty to Ahsoka- his friendship with her over his loyalty to his own brothers who were just following their programming. That’s a decision that has incredibly tragic consequences for Rex and for Ahsoka.

 

Ahsoka (Old Friends Not Forgotten): "Race you to the surface!"
Rex (Victory and Death): "You don't want to race me to this surface, kid." (yeah i know he didn't say that, but maybe he was thinking it).

Revenge of the Sith: Anakin on a starship that's about to crash into a planet.
Victory and Death: Ahsoka on a starship that is about to crash into a planet.
Interesting how this parallel essentially signifies the new paths that the two characters were headed towards.

On first viewing, the thought that went through my mind was Ahsoka, Maul, and even Rex are going Force Unleashed in this episode. On subsequent viewings, some of the more incredible events do not see so over-the-top considering the presence of the Force. As Vader says, "The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force." And similar to the dialogue in ESB: Luke says, "I don't believe it!". Yoda replies, "That is why you fail." There was tremendous belief between Ahsoka and Rex that they would make it out alive against all odds. The Force was with them.

The scenes that hit me the hardest:
-The opening of the bay doors and the moon looming before them. I was getting such a sense of dread (the music!), it was like seeing the Monolith in the movie 2010.
- Ahsoka dropping her lightsaber onto the ground. (Your weapons, you will not need them.)
-Obviously, the ending scene with Vader and the convor flying overhead. Peak Level!

This entire arc is easily a 10/10. Who am I kidding? It's a 1,000,000,000/10. This is what Star Wars is meant to be and I'm not sure if we'll see such epic level storytelling again. I'm really going to miss this series! And yet, I'm so glad it was able to finish its tale.

 

After two rewatches, a few more thoughts.

- It's clear that this would have benefitted by Shattered and Victory being one long episode. (Though possibily at the expense of Shattered's punch.) It doesn't have enough meat to stand on its own. I'm not as convinced of the merits of doing all four as a single movie. The Phantom Apprentice's ending is not particularly cliff-hangy. Furthermore, it marks a clear switch in story emphasis. Old Friends and Phantom are Ahsoka's story with Rex being virtually sidelined. Ahsoka makes her biggest character decision in Phantom by accepting once and for all that the Jedi and the Republic are hopelessly dysfunctional and that Maul could have the better argument... if it weren't for the bit about Anakin turning into a Sith. Shattered and Victory are clearly Rex's story. Order 66 is his biggest betrayal, his biggest agony. Ahsoka is certainly not sidelined in these two episodes but this mass betrayal and having your world end is something she's been through already. She's the experienced one here even though Rex has the rank. It's not a betrayal of Rex that Ahsoka is making the decisions and taking the lead here. Under the circumstances, he can't possibly be at his best.

- The original TCW run (Movie + S1-5) brought around full circle the Anakin/Ahsoka relationship. They started off with their meeting as Master and Padawan and ended it with the Padawan leaving the Master. it was a great coming of age story. Adding this season on strangely makes the cycle about Ahsoka/Rex. They started out with Rex's experience outranking Ahsoka's superior title. They end with only Rex having a rank and Ahsoka experienced (and more experienced when it comes to being betrayed by everyone you know.) By also becoming an arc about the futility of the war and how every path lead to hell and ending without much optimism, it turns into meta-acknowlegement that Ahsoka's story is now a never-ending one in a much larger franchise. Her arc this season started with a fortune cookie about making a path. Hers is an eternal struggle of finding a path: that between soldier and peacekeeper - that between helping individuals and sacrificing individual acts of mercy in service of the bigger picture - that between loyalty and possessive attachment - and doing so in a galaxy where all the paths lead to hell. But no matter how many times her choices fail her, she never gives up. I guess that what makes her so fascinating and relatable? All I know is that Rebels just feels much more necessary to her story arc now, despite not being its purpose. World Between Worlds gave me a sense of completion to her story that Victory didn't.

- My biggest regret is that the pain Rex must be feeling isn't given more time to play. In contrast, I'm fine with no time being spent on Ahsoka mourning Plo Koon, Anakin or the other Jedi. It's not that I expect her to not to care but that the death of the Republic means everyone suffers, not just the Jedi. It was great that the final scene had her paying respect to the gravesites of the clones. The Jedi were hosed by Sidious but they had free will the whole time. The clones were truly the innocent victims. They had no choice.

- Once the Y-Wing spins out the hangar with Ahsoka flying alongside, I couldn't helping thinking "Rex... Rex... Rex... you forgot to get her a jetpack again."

- Not sure if this is the intent but I saw Vader holding a blue lightsaber as a foreshadowing of his future redemption.

- Dave clearly mirrored the Rebels epilogue-style ending here. The timeskip, the two main characters physically absent but spiritually present in the memories of the person in scene. The final shot of the Ahsoka-painted Clone helmet serves as the TCW version of the mural shot of the Ghost crew. For those watching this season without having seen Rebels, this also serves as a story tease.

- I guess what I can say about this episode is that its... faithfully stays the course? No violations of characters and the theme of futility is faithful to that of the prequels. I guess I'm used to Dave pulling that extra rabbit out of that for the final act and end on a "Wow" factor that wasn't here.