ST Kylo Ren/Adam Driver Discussion Thread

Until about a year ago that's what I kept hoping for / expecting to happen. It's also very similar to Jacen's path, so maybe that's why they didn't go that route.

 

Apparently there are interviews with Abrams and Kennedy in which they said the character was always meant to die.
I remember the official poll revealed that he was the character most people wanted to see in TROS, by a whopping 85% and the polls were reset several times but always came back with the same results.

Rey was meant to be the main character, the one that people wanted to see the most, but it didn't work. Killing off Ben, elevating Rey to Mother of the Unifying Force, to quote a fellow poster....just didn't work.

 

Kylo was the best character by a country mile, and those that keep insisting that he wasn’t that popular are dead wrong.

 

Considering that polls don't take into account peaple who don't vote in them, and different polls in different places can led to different results, that does'nt really mean all that much.

That being said, I won't deny Kylo is very popular. But then agian so are the Porgs, Baby Yoda and Babu Frik, so make of that what you will

Did'nt work for you maybe - personally aside from the kiss and Rey being a Skywalker/Palpatine (Skypatine? Palpawalker?) I thought the ending was pretty good - especially considering it came at the end of the uneven climax to an uneven trilogy.

Your country, or mine?

Jokes aside, being "the best" character is subjective based on the viewer, but I don't think anyone her is insisting Kylo was'nt fairly popular irregardless of how they feel about him - I've seen far more peaple expanding (IMO) exorbitant amounts of energy denying that Finn or Poe weren't popular, but to my memory never anyone denying Kylo is.

 

True and, honestly, considering in what dire straits TROS left everyone (Finn a meme, Poe a non-entity, Rey #NotMySkywalker), it's better for him that he's dead than dragged back in a cash grab that's guaranteed going to flop.

 

Not me! For example, this forum thinks Finn is the best and has the best potential and I absolutely don't ha ha. Just because others love a character, it doesn't mean that their opinion polished a turd. It didn't. It still smells the same. Metaphorically speaking of course.

 

I think Kylo might be the most popular character from the ST, at least on the internet. Worldwide, I couldn't really say because I don't really follow fandom in other territories. I just wouldn't say the ST itself is all that popular.

Here in Germany the ST was more like an "eh, it happened" anyway. No media lionized and defended it here, though so even the also-divisive TLJ hardly made waves. And Kylo is probably the most known character from the ST here, even to casuals. But only as Kylo Ren, not Ben Solo, and in his full masked garb. It's more like a Vader-type deal, though far less iconic.

 

None of ST characters was nearly as popular as old SW characters or most popular MCU characters. So ranking is pointless since they simply didn't achieve an iconic status. They are known but they are not pop culture reference.

 

It's funny, but as an unashamed Reylo fan, I honestly - and stupidly - thought Rey would end up saving Kylo, that they would bring a balance to the Force between them.
Silly, naive me.
Rey was never meant to save Kylo. Her purpose was to replace him.

 

she saved him because she was one of factors that made Ben kill Kylo. Combined effort of his loved ones - Rey, Leia and Han. And then he saved her. And she replaced all Skywalkers not just him.

 

Nice that she remembered him, wasn't it?

 

Not to mention Mara Jade

4.471 billion and a lot of happy fans (not to mention plenty of new ones brought in to the francise by it) would indicate that yes, it's popular.

If the ST is unpopular (to say nothing of divisive) then it's only as much as the PT was, which lo and behold most peaple relize now was'nt actually that bad after all.

I don't recall the media lionizing or defending it here in the States either - I do remember the cast and crew of the film having to defend their word from a particulerly vocal and entitled segement of the fandom, but I don't recall the media ever doing anything other then critiquing the films (both positively and negativly) and reporting on them and the events surrounding them.

And frankly if the media were going to do that it would'nt be for a bunch of action-drama popcorn camp sci-fi films, it would be for something actually importent - I don't know if you've noticed over there in Europe, but the media over here across the pond has had far more pressing concerns to worry about within the timeframe that Disney has been making Star Wars films.

Whew, good thing being iconic pop-culture references are'nt requirements for fictional characters then?

That's like saying Luke's purpose was to replace Vader.

 

It was utterly ridiculous after TLJ. According to articles and bloggers (I was never talking about CNN here or something, I thought that was clear) only 9 neckbeards living at home basically disliked it and then only because they hated women or something. Female fans disliking it was unheard of if you believed the articles. Fans were mean and toxic and bla bla. And those articles still haven`t really stopped. Where I live, there wasn`t a single one like that, at no point. Noone called fans who didn`t like it any names or made up all kinds of "because headcanon, waaah" reasons and dismissed the divisiveness. Noone even tried to sell it as this epic, bold masterpiece that needed to happen.

Back when the PT came out articles and bloggers were the most bloodthirsty of the bunch in terms of ripping but somehow TLJ was a holy cow. Admittedly, they then went and ripped TROS in the same manner for which they lambasted fans re: TLJ which was highly amusing in its hypocrisy.

 

Is there a turd? Or is that an opinion?

 

Not the same thing.
Vader was a hollow man. His wife, the love of his life, was dead. His body was ruined. He thought his children were dead. He was more dead than alive.
Luke was his child, one of the children he conceived with his beloved Padme. He was young, strong and had his whole life ahead of him. Vader gave up what was left of his life so Luke could live. So his son could live. He went peacefully into the Force and in all likelihood to his wife in the afterlife.

Ben Solo was only thirty, young and strong. He was Anakin's grandson. His own life was a sad mess of psychological abuse, packed off to a galactic monastery at ten by parents he thought wanted to get rid of him. Unlike Anakin, whose mother sent him away to get him out of slavery (ironic when you see the rigid code of the Jedi.)
He could have - should have- lived, and atoned for his past deeds. Instead he was used as a metaphorical organ donor for Palpatine's granddaughter. Because no matter how you look at it, that is exactly what it was. Even worse, he was immediately forgotten by the woman he died for, who five minutes later is seen sliding down sand dunes with a big smirk on her face. Even Vader shared some last tender words with his son, and had a funeral pyre. Ben Solo might never have existed.
Post TROS the entire purpose of the ST was to kill off the last Skywalker, and replace him with someone else. They could have made Rey a Skywalker, but they didn't. They wanted the family gone. And only they know why.
I don't know if anyone here has seen Once Upon a Time, but that story ended with some genuinely dark characters having happy endings. Regina murdered Emma's lover Graham, and countless others, yet got to live and continue as town mayor. Rumplestilskin, who killed his own wife, got to have a happy ever after with his second wife and son. Captain Hook, who murdered David's father, got to live happily with Emma. And these were just a few.
This was also made by Disney. I wonder what changed?

 

None of that tells me why he should have. He's Kylo Ren. TFA had him be a villain. I think TLJ sought, as far as I can tell, to me, double down on him being a villain. He's not Anakin. Anakin's backstory, to me, was interesting and had a layered characterization, to me, in the movies. Kylo, in the movies, isn't that, to me.

They could've made Rey a Skywalker. And, for the time being, I don't think they have. But I'd take her, as she is, over Kylo's character being waxed about more. Ben Solo might as have never existed and I, personally, am not sweating it. I think he didn't do much for the story of these movies, but, I think, to me, facilitated not strong character work and storytelling.

That show was bad. Not just the opinion of Star Wars disliking. Like legit not good.

 

It's interesting but he's written quite sympathetically in the TFA junior novel, not so much in the 'adult' novel.
I wonder if, like us, the writers had opposite opinions!

 

Novels don't mean squat precisely because they are novel writer's opinion and not necessarily what movie writers intended. Also, they have no impact on future content cause they are just companion pieces to movies, not a strong canon that makes a difference.

 

I'm genuinely baffled as to what anyone intended for TROS, they were so busy retconning TLJ I think they forgot to actually tell a story.
Almost half a year has passed and I still can't get my head around how genuinely bad a film it was - TPM is like Citizen Kane in comparison.

 

TPM is a fine movie. I think that main confusion comes from undefined protagonist. Though PT is the Anakin trilogy, he isn't the protagonist in this movie, at least not a clear one. I'd say Oui Gon is the closest though I've seen good cases made in favor of Padme.

OTOH, TROS has a very clearly defined protagonist (Rey). No confusion there.

 

TPM it is Qui Gon, it's him we follow trough the movie. In TROS it's Rey and like that she hears Qui Gon.

 

Agreed.