ST THE RISE OF SKYWALKER mirroring and symbolism

Spoiler

TPM





ROTS






ESB




TROS

 

Spoiler

- Kylo also does the Han "wait" finger point (I posted it earlier in the thread).
- And slides his feet on the floor like Han (both as Kylo unarmed at the start of the DS2 fight vs Rey, and as Ben running to help Rey on Exegol).

Spoiler

TFA / TROS - First Order air-raids.

Spoiler

Unmaskings seems to still be a thing.


In TFA - Finn, Kylo, and Rey are introduced with their faces concealed.






ROTJ and TROS feature a masked "assassin" type who is later revealed to be a beloved character.






Han: "Who are you?" Leia: "Someone who loves you."

Finn: "How'd you find us?" Lando: "Wookies stand out in a crowd!"


Lando also had a more subtle unmasking in ROTJ itself.

 

Spoiler

@Lulu Mars noticed this.
TFA/TROS - An old ally in a desert has a clue to Luke's/Sidious's whereabouts. One extra detail - both characters say "Go!" when Imperials approach.







Some character references for Lando:

"Hello, what have we here?"


"Do me a favour... give Leia my love."








"Good to see you too, old buddy!"

Spoiler

TFA - Rey learns the mind-trick. Takes several tries.







TROS - Mind-trick again. This time someone else is the prisoner.

"It's okay that we're here." ... "Your relieved that we're here."

"Thank God you're here." "Welcome guys."

 

Solos like doing this

Spoiler

 

Thankyou. Gifs are much more effective.

 

sometimes. depends on whether you want to emphasize a motion or a particular freeze frame in which case a still is better.

 

Does the Rey and Kylo fight on the Death Star mirror the Luke and Vader fight in the same location?

Does the Leia and Luke training fight mirror any other lightsaber duel?

 

The only similarity off the top of my head is that Kylo avoids fighting at first, like Luke is trying to against Vader. As the fight heats up Luke becomes enraged because of a threat to Leia and almost kills Vader. Kylo almost kills Rey then is pacified by Leia, and Rey in her anger stabs him. Luke spares Vader, inspiring redemption. Rey heals Ben, contributing to redemption. Both end with a form of reconciliation with dead or dying parents.

I'm unsure.

 

Ep1 Duel of Fates and Ep3 Battle of Heroes has a ****load of mirroring going on. The Ep3 duel also mirrors Kylo and Rey in Ep9 of course.
Im going to attempt to do the duels tomorrow.

 

*sound of crickets chirping*

I didn't mean to stifle other discussion guys, Ive just been working on this a lot lately. Shouldn't be too much longer.

 

I noticed this one.

Spoiler

Like father,

ROTS






Like daughter

TROS



Holding on the the arm of the opponent.Taking advantage.

Cheers!

MJ

 

Worth a watch

 

Further dialogue analysis.




Within opening crawls:

TFA
“...The sinister First Order has risen from the ashes of the Empire.”
TROS
“...A broadcast in the sinister voice of the late Emperor Palpatine.”

ANH
“Pursued by the Empire’s sinister agents, Princess Leia races home aboard her starship.”
TROS
“General Leia Organa has dispatched secret agents to gather intelligence.”

TPM
"The Phantom Menace" (the title itself).
TROS
“Supreme Leader Kylo Ren rages in search of the phantom Emperor...”


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Some misc. mirrors:


AOTC
On Padme using herself as bait for the assassin -
Obi-Wan: “What is she thinking?”
TROS
On Rey heading to the Deathstar ruins alone -
Poe: “What the hell is she thinking?”


--------


Palpatine (ROTS): "Do it!”
Rose (TLJ): "Do it!"
Kylo (TLJ): "Do it!"
Palpatine (TROS): "Do it!"

---------

TROS

Rey: "We need the dagger."
"How do you know?"
Rey: “A feeling.”

Jannah: "It wasn't a decision, it was like a..."
Finn: "...A feeling."
Jannah: "A feeling!"

Jannah: "How do you know?"
Finn: "A feeling."


-----------


ROTS
Sidious: “I am the Senate!”
TROS
Sidious: “I am all the Sith!”


-----------


ESB
Lando: “You know, that ship saved my life a thousand times, she’s the fastest hunk of junk in the galaxy.”
ROTJ
Lando: “I know what she means to you, trust me, she won’t get a scratch.”
TROS
Poe: “I’m fast.”
Lando: “Not as fast as this ship!”


-----------


ESB
The Emperor: “The son of Skywalker must not become a Jedi.”
Vader: “If he could be turned he would be a powerful ally...”
TROS
Sidious: "The Jedi apprentice still lives. Perhaps you have betrayed me. Do not make me turn my fleet against you."
Kylo: “I know where she is going. She'll never be a Jedi.”

Palpatine really wants to turn her and possess her. Kylo isn't admitting he already wanted to turn her.
In ESB The Sith are conspiring together (and against one another) to turn Luke.

ROTJ
Emperor: “I wonder if your feelings on this matter are clear, Lord Vader?”
Vader: "They are clear, my master."


-----------


ROTS
Sidious: “We must move quickly. The Jedi are relentless. If they are not all destroyed... it will be civil war without end.”

(TFA crawl - “...and will not stop until Luke Skywalker, the last Jedi, is destroyed.”)

Sidious: “In order to assure continuing stability... the Republic will be reorganised into the first Galactic Empire... for a safe and secure society!”
TROS
Sidious: “Let this be the final word in the story of Rebellion!”
...
Sidious: “The Jedi are dead!”



ROTS
Sidious: “You will not stop me. Darth Vader will become more powerful than either of us!”
TROS
Sidious: “Nothing will stop the return of the Sith!”


TROS
Sidious: “And now, the power of two restores the one true Emperor!” (Ultimately happy to be a one-man Empire as always. He is rejuvenated and no longer cares about possessing Rey or Kylo.)


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fear themes:


TPM
Anakin: “I miss her.”
Yoda: “Afraid to lose her I think?”
Anakin: “What has that got to do with anything?”
Yoda: “Everything! Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.”
AOTC
Anakin: “I wasn’t strong enough to save you.”
ROTS
Anakin: “Just help me save Padme’s life. I can’t live without her.”

ESB
Luke: “I won’t fail you. I’m not afraid.”
Yoda: “Oh. You will be. You will be.”

TFA
Rey: “I’m never touching that thing again! I don’t want any part of this.”
...
Kylo: “So lonely... so afraid to leave.”
...
Rey: “You... you’re afraid! ...That you will never be as strong as Darth Vader!”

(Also, in TROS;
Kylo: “You can’t hide, Rey. Not from me.”
Rey: “I see through the cracks in your mask. You’re haunted. You can’t stop seeing what you did to your father.”)

TLJ
Rey: “Something inside me has always been there. Now it’s awake. And I’m afraid. I don’t know what it is, or what to do with it. And I need help.”
...
Luke: “I’ve seen this kind of raw strength only once before... in Ben Solo. It didn’t scare me enough then. It does now!”

TROS
Luke: “It was fear that kept me on this island. What are you most afraid of?”
Rey: “Myself.”
(Also, in ROTS;
Obi-Wan “He is in grave danger.”
Padme: “From the Sith?”
Obi-Wan: “From himself.”)
Luke: “Confronting fear is the destiny of a Jedi. Your destiny.”


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


TLJ
Kylo: “Rey I want you to join me. We can rule together and bring a new order to the galaxy.”
TROS
Kylo: “We’ll kill him together and take the throne.”


TLJ
Kylo: “I know what I have to do.”
*Kills Snoke to save Rey and take the throne for himself*
TROS
Kylo: “You know what you have to do.”
Rey: “I do.”
*Rey jumps to Finn on Falcon*


TROS
Poe: “He wanted her alive.”
...
Sidious: “She will come and her friends will follow.”
Pryde: “As I served you in the old wars, I serve you now.”
ROTS
Sidious: “The end of the war is near General.”
Grievous: "But the loss of Count Dooku?"
Sidious: “His death was a necessary loss. Soon I will have a new apprentice. One far younger and more powerful.”

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Balance theme:



TPM
Mace: “You refer to the prophecy of the one who will bring balance to the force?”
AOTC
Mace: “Remember, if the prophecy is true, your apprentice is the only one who can bring the force back into balance.”
ROTS
Obi-Wan: “Is he not to destroy the Sith and bring balance to the force?”
Mace: “So the prophecy says.”
Yoda: "A prophecy that misread could have been."
...

Obi-Wan: “You were the chosen one! It was said that you would destroy the Sith, not join them! Bring balance to the force, not leave it in darkness.”


TFA
Lor San Tekka: “Without the Jedi there can be no balance in the force.”

TLJ
Rey: "The island.
Life.
Death and decay.
That feeds new life.
Warmth.
Cold.
Peace.
Violence."
Luke: “And between it all?”
Rey: “Balance. An energy. A force.”
Luke: “And inside you?”
Rey: “Inside me... that same force.”
...
Rey: “Beneath the island. A place. A dark place.”
Luke: “Powerful light, powerful darkness.”

Luke says something interesting (even if out of character) - "To say that if the Jedi die the light dies is vanity, can you feel that?"
This can apply to the period after ROTS... the Jedi are all but extinct but the light is not vanquished completely.

...

Luke: “For many years there was balance. Then I saw him... my nephew.”
...
Snoke: “Darkness rises... and light to meet it. I warned my apprentice that as his power grew his equal in the light would rise. Skywalker, I assumed. Wrongly.”
TROS
Anakin: “Bring back the balance Rey, as I did.”


As the dyad - the “chosen” of the current generation is split into two individuals that act as one. Balance is still returned when the Jedi survive and the Sith die. Palpatine having been clinging unnaturally to a state of semi-life, before Ben returns to the light and aids the other half of the dyad. Balance arguably returning through a form of symbiosis (as discussed in TPM), with shared energy – Rey healed Ben's mortal wound and Ben in turn revived Rey from death. Ben becomes one with the force and the Jedi Order continues on post-TROS through Rey.

 

Someone on another website brought up how neat it was that TFA ends with Luke and Rey, TLJ ends with Leia and Rey and TROS ends with Rey and both of them, but I think it goes even a little bit beyond that.

TFA ends with Leia sending Rey to get her brother so Luke can come back and bring hope. "Rey, may the Force be with you."

Spoiler

TLJ ends with Luke and Leia both realizing that it's Rey who is their hope. "I will not be the last Jedi" / "We have everything we need."

Spoiler

TROS ends with Rey acknowledging that she was their hope all along. "We've passed on all we know. A thousand generations live in you now. But this is your fight." Rey ends Palpatine using lightsabers once belonging to both Leia and Luke.

Spoiler

"Who are you?"
"Rey."
"Rey who?"
"Rey Skywalker."



TFA ends with Luke/Rey, TLJ ends with Leia/Rey and finally TROS ends with Rey/twins. It was about the twins passing on their legacy.

 

Word.
Lots of those were really good. I wish I knew how to edit videos

Whoa. Well said. I didn't notice that it was so direct.

Nine is underrated in its tying a lot of this stuff up quite neatly.

Great post.

 

Not to sound pretentious but...
SW fans, you should really read everyone's contributions here, you're missing out.

Looking through the thread is satisfying.

I cant believe the post two above only got 2 likes. The observation makes the ending of the saga really click.

Just my opinion...

 

Spoiler

AOTC Anakin




TROS Rey

Spoiler

ROTS - The man that pulls Anakin to the dark.

ROTJ - The man that pulls Vader to the light.

TFA - Kylo first meeting Rey... they will end up with the same goals.

TROS - Kylo first meeting Palpatine... their goals will diverge completely.

After Palpatine turns out to be behind Ben's fall of course. And a Palpatine descendant helping bring him back.

 

Thank you. This is one of my favorite threads, by the way. I really do like the Luke/Leia/Rey ending, despite my feelings it could've been written better across the trilogy. I think it's a nice "tie-up" for the characters. Throw in that it was a Palpatine who started it all with Sheev (Palpatine) helping seduce Anakin (Skywalker), it's fitting it's the twins (Skywalker) who train Rey (Palpatine) and turn it around.

 

ROTS

Anakin conflicted with two sabers (His own and Dooku’s red saber) has them crossed and eventually with Palpatine’s prompting kills Dooku. (Leader of the Separatists and should have ended the galaxy’s conflict.) Anakin has no idea at this point the man behind him is making him do his bidding. It is Palpatine providing the impetus that hate solves it.

Palpatine says Dooku was too dangerous to be kept alive. But Palpatine becomes emperor resulting in the hunting down of the Jedi and rending the Jedi all but extinct.

TROS

Rey has two sabers (Anakin’s and Leia’s) crossed but signifying no conflict! Son of Leia had earlier thrown away his saber). Kills Palpatine (who was kept alive unnaturally) the phantom Emperor. Not doing his bidding. The son of Skywalker gave Rey the idea to take both sabers. Rey has no hate just being a true Jedi. The Republic is restored. The Sith extinct.

Cheers!

MJ

 

There's also San Tekka's 'to me she is royalty' and ANH Leia at the end of TROS.

If one tales a look at the 9 films and their costumes, TROS Rey is some kind of jedi Padme or jedi Leia...and, retrospectively, TLJ Rey (long hair) is the Qui-Gon path Ben Solo never had, a path Kylo Ren was too blind to see.

When Rey says 'there's still time to save the fleet' after killing Snoke's guards, Kylo is behind her...but looking at the throne, his and her POVs forming a 90° angle. 'It's time to let old things die'. Then they talk eye to eye and it becomes a 180° thing, opposites again.

That Qui-Gon path would have been that of jedi Leia, one would assume...and that's Ben running in Exegol.

 

Missed a few posts due to work and stuff, lol. But I am glad the thread is still going.

 

Agreed. Imo both the PT and the ST have some subtle elements that are lost on most viewers because arguably the writing or execution is lacking. The OT was much more successful at being what it was trying to be. It reaches the wider audience but still has depth, probably why it is so iconic.
It is fun to think about this stuff though. I'm enjoying having a completed nine episodes to watch now, despite the drama with their production circumstances.

Thanks. Appreciate everyone joining in here. Btw, are you planning a PT rewatch at any stage?



@ScreamingWoman2019
That Adam Driver quote is awesome. He does appear to feel looser on Exegol, it was done well.




I thought I should explain some of the dialogue post from yesterday.

Both the First Order and Palpatine "rise from ashes" of their fallen past dominance of the galaxy.

A role-reversal for Leia.
And a third use of "sinister".

Another Padme/Rey parallel from an AOTC deleted scene:

AOTC
Padme: "That was when I worked with a relief group. Their sun was imploding and the planet was dying. I was helping relocate all the children. See that little one I'm holding? His name was Nakitolo which means sweetheart. He was so full of life... they all were."
TROS
Threepio: She is saying "welcome".
*child talks*
Threepio: "Her name is "Nambi Geema." "
Rey: "That's an excellent name. I'm Rey."

----------------------------------------------------

Another ROTJ/TROS theme I missed:

ROTJ
Luke: "Your overconfidence is your weakness."
Emperor: "Your faith in your friends is yours!"
TROS
Poe: "How did you do it? Defeat an Empire?"
Lando: "We had each other! That's how we won."

------------------------------------------------------------


Just wanted to clarify I was implying all in the following quote are related:

Ulltimately happy to be a one-man Empire as always. He is rejuvenated and no longer cares about possessing Rey or Kylo. In ROTS he stated to Yoda that Darth Vader is his ticket to the Sith's stranglehold on the galaxy. With Anakin, Rey, and Ben Solo all ultimately defying him, Sidious shows his true colours by draining the essence of the dyad and attempting to reign solo. Not just the Jedi stand in the way of his goals - everyone is essentially expendable to him.

Both holo scenes with Sidious here involve Sidious implying to an underling that he will turn first Anakin then Rey, respectively.
And they are both after Sidious has lost an apprentice - Dooku (as planned), Kylo (as a setback).

Just wanted to add, my reading is obviously the balance was brought back in ROTJ, but Palpatine's state of half-death and attempt to fully live again threaten to throw the balance out again permanently. The Jedi destroy him moments after he regains his full strength and balance is once again returned.

As an aside I feel like something overlooked in the scene Rey kills him in; is that Rey doesn't appear to be simply deflecting the lightning like Mace did. If you watch closely, Palpatine stops shooting lightning eventually, yet Rey is still sending power back at him for several seconds. Perhaps this is to do with the past Jedi's strength being added, it really looks like Rey herself and Luke/Anakin/Leia's sabers are charged and generating some of the power themselves.

 

Ohhh I almost forgot! Oh yeah, I should def get on that. Will fit perfectly with my night shifts next week I reckon, hehe.

Wait, what was this again? I think I missed some of the context of that quote.

 

Cool.
My favourite thing to look out for was links between episode 1 and episode 3. Keep your eyes open because they are everywhere lol.

This description of Ben by Driver.

It totally shows in his performance as Ben I think. He seems much lighter on his feet and happier.

 

Ohh right, sorry I thought there was something previous as well. But yes, nice find!