ST Kylo Ren/Adam Driver Discussion Thread

really? when/where did JJ said that?

 

I don't think it was ever ego driven with Kylo. He literally hides behind it.

 

Well yes, I'll say self esteem instead.

 

Self esteem in what way?

I think he hides he is not as evil as he needs to be to be succesfull/unquestioned in an organization such as FO.

 

I honestly just assumed that it had taken him that long to get all the little pieces gathered up and put back together.

 

Right, he wears it as a way of enforcing his persona of Kylo Ren, thus raising his own self esteem and masking his self doubt.

 

an uncommitted villain feeling guilty for his uncommittment to the evil cause using a mask to commit to it more fully?
Perhaps...or perhaps he wears it to hide what he already knows, and what he has always known (feared) that he will never be pure evil that's necessary to be to have the legitimacy to rule FO, a role he is stuck in after killing Snoke.
He didn't kill Snoke for power, he did it for liberating himself from chronic enslavement/danger, and Rey from the acute one.

I agree with you on helmet/cowl look being superior to helmet/cape. The helmet works better in half hidden combo, because to me it gives a sort of background for that void in the eye parts of the mask they were going with in TFA.

The kintsugi lines give perfect meaning to it in TRoS, as to the state of his soul. It serves also as great foreshadowing of his redemption. And as that it should never be destroyed again because it transformed from means of hiding who he isn't to showcasing what he is. Repaired/restored.

Can you imagine how awesome would he look if he wore it in combo with the cowl...wow. The switch to cape was to make him look more like Vader to appease to Vader fanbase, I think. At least that's how I understood it.


Kylo is not a monster. He just likes to present himself as one. For many reasons.
First, because it is what everyone expects from him. When it comes to insignificant people (FO, Galaxy, the world) it is a means to separate himself from them, keeping them on a distance, guarding his privacy.

For those close to him, who should know better what he really is, he wears that mask/fascade/Kylo Ren persona to hide how hurt he really is about that grave misunderstanding. That hurt generates a sort of defiance in a sense oh you think I'm a monster, well let me show you just how big of a monster am I. He doesn't necessarily has to have helmet on to enable it. (That happened when Rey called him a monster first time, on Takodana)
Childish, perhaps, but tell me who hasn't done the same at least once in their (adult) lives.

And then there is a remorse triggered part of him that thinks he doesn't deserve to be anything else than a Monster, so he complies with it. And that is shown here:


Kylo's humanity does come out when he is maskless. But I completely disagree (once again) with your representation of it. If he truly was that sinister then he would have never been redeemed and reinstated as Ben Solo. Because Monsters don't get redemptions. Kylo is not a poorly written villain. Or a failed villain. He simply isn't one no matter how hard he tries to be. Some may declare his reasons for wanting to be one (a villain, a monster) as childish or the result of bad writing or time limited/shallow on screen presentation, but I think that people get out of characters primarily that which they bring in themselves. Their original idea/ prejudice. The writing and execution of the artist are there for guidance of how one will understand the character. And the guidance here is: Kylo Ren is not a monster as he is sometimes presented, one should look deeper, past that. Because Monsters do not get redemptions.

I don't think Kylo manipulates Rey at any point in their correlations because them being a dyad eliminate any possibility of manipulation: they feel and see each other as they truly are. They are one in the Force. He does that from the start of their bond (the interrogation) while Rey does it later in the story, after they touch hands in TLJ when she realizes that he should judge him based on what she feels and knows about him through that bond and not based on what she should feel about him. Or better yet what she's expected to feel about him.

 

That's a delusion right there. They make sure to solidify his status as a monster in his introductory scene. Ordering the deaths of a village of innocents without compulsion or hesitation makes one a monster, full stop. When he acknowledges himself as a monster to Rey, the movies give us no reason to believe he's lying. He obviously feels uncomfortable in the position he's carving out for himself against all sense and positive outside guidance, yet a monster he clearly is.

 

Monsters have no light. His mother insists she has throughout all of ST. Luke insists he is not really gone. Rey insists his choice hasn't been made. Them three, through the Force have an insight into who Kylo Ren trully is. Not how he is meant to look like.

 

And that is what disappoints me. The Jedi Prodigal arch is getting over used: Vader/Anakin, Revan, and now Ben.

 

Sure, every character's every action is defining in fantasy world, not just their current/last one, gotcha


Am I looking in the wrong places but there seems to be no official Kylo Ren infused with red metal lines Helmet of premium quality to buy?! That, if true, seems to me like a huge marketing miss. I'd buy a black series one in a second to mirror the TFA one I have.

 

Kylo Ren is absolutely a monster. As was Darth Vader. The fact they came back to the light side does not mean they weren't monsters while they were on the dark side. They were. If they weren't, there'd be no need for redemption.

 

Every monster can be redeemed even someone like Palpatine, but they must deep down want to be redeemed. Anakin and Ben Solo wanted and got redeemed. Maul wanted to be redeemed but he cond't let go of the darkness and he only found peace in Kenobi's arms.

 

Palaptine did nothing wrong, so redemption for what exactly? he was a legally elected Chancellor. He brought peace to the galaxy when he created the Empire in place of already broken Republic. he wouldn't be able to start a separatist movement if there wasn't already dissatisfaction with the republic itself. he just gave them tools to act out on it. he was nice to and full of understanding for Anakin unlike mistrustful Jedi Council. So that's good. OK, he tried to kill his granddaughter's boyfriend which is understandable, and also boyfriends uncle (when uncle was young) which is understandable too. otherwise, he did nothing wrong.

 

lol “palpatine did nothing wrong”

 

Well except for killing and erasing an entire religion. and his cruel reing with his facism regime.

 

Palpatine was just a misunderstood puppy dog.

 

Jedi erased themselves when they swapped feeling the Force for Ikea sofa politics.

 

If the puppy dog likes to turture you and laugh while doing it and makes you watch as he does to all you know and tells you hoe he'll do it. oh and likes oprea.

Welll that's not true as then they be wiped out ages ago as it seems by TPM they were already deep into politics.