The Mandalorian The Mandalorian Season 2 Discussion (Spoilers Allowed)

But as we know, those Womp Rats shooting skills translate perfectly to starfighter combat. Din better watch out.

 

Din: *hands Child to Ahsoka*
Child: *Dark-sided tantrum*
Ahsoka: Um, you keep him.

 

No, no gymnastics, just looking at it from story.

And I understand the bond the child and Din are forming. That's what challenges the character. Do I keep the child, even though my lifestyle is horrible for the child? Or do I give the child to the "Jedi," which is what I'm quested to do? Will I be selfish, or selfless?

And with the quest: an argument can be made that's not to dissimilar to Rey handing the lightsaber to Luke and him tossing it over his shoulder. Only in this case, Din completes his quest, only then to decide, no, I'm keeping the child.

Usually the Star Wars story is "I get this thing, I do something with this thing, then I pass this thing along." Qui-Gon and Anakin. Obi-Wan and Anakin. Luke and Leia's message. Luke and knowledge of his father. Rey and... eh. (EDIT: No, to be fair, Rey brings Luke back.)

Let's do this: why do you feel Ahsoka is in the story? They literally could have done anything they wanted but they chose her, what is her reason for being there? Din's character narrative point directly at Ahsoka, that's what they set up, why? Let's start there.

 

I think you're getting way too hung up on the word "quest" in all of this. This isn't a video game where you complete the quest and then you're done. This is a narrative examining the lives of these two characters, with complexities and contradictions that ultimately cause people to change their mind about things and do something different than what they are setting out to do sometimes.

Din keeping the Child isn't selfish, and even if that does turn out to be the case - sometimes people are selfish. I maintain, however, that staying with Din is the best place for the Child to remain, especially if Ahsoka has a "quest" of her own that she is currently dealing with (which, from the end of Rebels, we know that she does).

You ask why we feel that Ahsoka is in the story if she isn't going to then exit the story with the Child? I answer that by saying - she is here to impart her wisdom on Din and the Child, and help them move onto the next stage of their lives beyond this "quest" that the Armorer sent him on. There are many more quests to be had in the future, and the show is making it a point that they are quests that Din and the Child will embark on together. Luke didn't stay and train with Yoda in The Empire Strikes Back, despite Obi-Wan sending him on a "quest" to do just that. The Hobbits didn't stay with Tom Bombadil in The Fellowship of the Ring, and Tom Bombadil never returns in later volumes, but that doesn't make his appearance early on in the narrative any less pivotal. Similarly, I do not see Din's "quest" to take the Child to Ahsoka as being this rigid story commitment that cannot be shifted or changed by a character's altering perspective.

 

But I'm not getting hung up on the word "quest," they mention it like every other episode. And every episode this season has been about his quest. That is literally what the show is about.

And the quest will obviously soon come to an end. And what comes afterward is the hangup. You've built the entire show about this one thing, and now that it's over, where do you go?

If the show was just about him doing bounties with the child, then that's opened-ended and you can do that forever (well, not really, but y'know, figuratively speaking). But it's about a specific thing, it doesn't feel open-ended at all. It feels like there's a beginning, a middle, and an end. As if there's chapters or something. And "completing" the quest is the middle, and resolving the situation that complicates this (the child is going to end up in Moff Gideon's hands for a time)... and resolving the situation that complicates this "completion" is the end.

And you have the perfect setup in Ahsoka to continue the story elsewhere, but no, some say...

Yeah, I'm starting to bore myself now. We'll see what they do in the episode.

 

I agree with your take 704, it looks like getting to Ahsoka will be a pit stop, so to speak, of knowledge and guidance. The grand story arc, imho, will eventually involve Fett. But I guess will see. - Stay safe may friends!

 

It occurs to me that at this point Din, having been raised by a cult in a sewer, might actually think “Jedi” is the name of the kid’s species. This leads to a reversal of Luke meeting Yoda in ESB, where a confused Din thinks that Ashoka can’t possibly be the Jedi because she isn’t an impish little green thing.

 

Yup, I've been thinking this as well actually. Until he meets Ahsoka, I think he's under the impression that Jedi is a "race" for sure.

 

When I was a little kid I thought that the Jedi were a race! Back then the only non-human Jedi we ever saw was Yoda, and with him being 900 years old, I thought that his looks were just due to his age and what the force did to him over a long period of time.

 

Yes, but is this the real quest of the show? It's probably not just a focus on an external plot, an external quest, but on an internal one, a quest for identity. Din's growing and changing every episode, and so his goals will change as well. We saw this clearly when he completed his quest to deliver the Child to the Imperials. Internally, he had changed and no longer desired to leave the Child in Imperial hands. Therefore, his external quest changed and he rescued the Child. Something similar will happen when the time comes to hand the Child over to a Jedi.

However, there are obvious external plot reasons why the Child won't be handed over to Ahsoka in the next episodes. First, Gideon will block this, probably kidnapping the Child. Second, we can't assume Ahsoka will train him because we're not sure what she's up to, what her state of mind is, or if she's even a Jedi. If she tells Din she's not a Jedi, why would he necessarily hand the Child over to her?

As I argued in a previous post, the show's plot is more character based and these quests only serve the purpose of making Din and the Child grow and change. That's the actual story, not the clash between the Empire and New Republic. That clash is part of the story too, but it's not the emotional pulse of the show; it's not where the depth and beating heart exist.

 

Very well put Chalk Jedi!

The character drive, personality evolution, and total emotional arc is what makes a great story when it’s backed up by these factors. It’s an elementary ingredient in what makes a legend or story grandeur! ....only this one is in the back drop of a long time ago in a galaxy far far away.

 

The third Solo alien species was first seen in TLJ, actually. On Canto Bight.

 

Ok so take this with a grain of salt. but the "Heavy Spoilers" youtube channel claims there has been some leaks, possibly from reddit that was quickly deleted as thats the screenshot they posted. but they were apparently saying that

Spoiler

The threat this episode will basically be another side story that Din is helping with. a women called the magistrate is executing innocent civilians in some city and she will be the villain that Ahsoka is determined to stop. and there will also be abit of conflict between Din and Ahsoka in the episode.

We will also learn abit more about Baby Yoda in the episode. including his real name and where he is from, as Ahsoka reads the childs mind but is unable to see anything else about him mysteriously.

Ahsoka does mention that she is on her own mission to find grand admiral thrawn at the end. the plot going forward then turns into Mando on a mission to find out more about the child.

He does say more in the video, including the apparent leaked name of the child. but just incase its not true, I'm leaving it there.

I guess we will find out if this is true Friday. don't think too hard about it though just incase. the channel does say this isn't their information so it could very well all be wrong.

 

I hate to post this after Daxon's post, but curse my slow typing fingers...

In bold first: who thinks that's going to happen? I certainly don't. That would be a little ridiculous to me (more than a little).

No, I, like most, assume the child will be kidnapped. Giancarlo Esposito basically said as much. I think that'll probably be the season two cliffhanger, because why not. And then they spend probably half of next season resolving that and getting the child back. And then Din gives the child over to Ahsoka near the end of the third season because what else is he going to do with it?

And again, this is my big thing on this: if Din doesn't give Ahsoka the child, then what does he do? They fly off in the Razor Crest and go and do what? Does Din go back to being a bounty hunter? If so, where? Nevarro is cleaned up now, isn't it? And Greef Karga isn't in that line of work anymore, is he?

Does he go and join Bo-Katan? If so, okay. And then he does what? Drops the child off with someone while he goes and fights with Bo-Katan and then picks the child up later?

This is what I'm talking about, what in the world is the show going to be about after he meets Ahsoka?

You see what I'm saying?

It doesn't seem as though Din has much agency as a character outside of fulling his quest with the child. And that may be all that Jon Favreau created the character for?

Obi-Wan was "quested" with bringing Luke to Tatooine to be raised by his "family." And that's the end of that particular story. And then you continue the story later on with something else. Simple, right.

We gotta let the child leave Din, otherwise he's like Luke never leaving Tatooine. Right?

EDIT:

It sounds plausible to me except for the mission part.

Spoiler

Because she comes back from the Unknown Regions to do what exactly? And now she's going back?

But yeah, we'll see...

 

Our assumptions about the plot and purpose of the show are just fundamentally different. You assume that the point of the show is to deliver the Child to the Jedi or his people. My assumption is that the show is about the father-son relationship and how it alters and changes both the Mando and Child, as they synthesize and balance one another, forcing each to grow.

Your interest is in what I call external plot, or the galactic story, so you assume that the Child's purpose is to be a Jedi. However, I think it's clear the story is more about the internal, personal story, and that story can work within many different kinds of external plot situations.

So, for instance, if Mando decides to help free Mandalore from Imperial control, the Child would still likely accompany him most of the time as we see him do now -- sometimes being part of the action, other times being dropped off with babysitters, and these babysitters are more important to the show than some think. First, they help provide more experience and growth for the Child, and second, they provide an opportunity for world building (as well as humor and drama).

After the Gideon/Mandalore plot, we could very easily see Din and the Child join Ahsoka on her mission, whatever it is, perhaps for Thrawn. Then we might have a season or more dedicated to a focus on the contrasts between the Jedi and Mandalorian beliefs.

Since the show is called the Mandalorian, I believe part of it will always be exploring what that identity means for Din, and so the show's plot will usually be framed by contrasting that Mando identity with other identities.

But yes, if you assume these characters have no agency, and that they never will have it, then I can see the show just having the external plot guiding their actions. However, I see no reason to assume the characters don't have agency when we've already seen it -- Din's changing beliefs about droids are one of the most obvious examples, but also his initial choice to rescue the Child. Every episode we see Din navigating his belief system and learning to make his own choices relative to his dogmas. So I don't understand why anyone would think he has no, or little, agency.

 

A real Monkey Puzzle (by Julia Donaldson).

 

Not to be cynical, but I think the child's purpose is to sell merchandise. But also to become a Jedi, because yeah, what else are you doing to do with him?

And everything else that you said, yes, I agree. This is what's happening now in the show. This is all clear.

But overall, what are they going to do with the show? This quest of Din's isn't like some three or four episode story-arc. It's the entire show.

And the agency that you're speaking of is moral agency. That's a given. But that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about agency as in what is driving the character to act.

We're flying around the galaxy doing what and why, now? We've completed our task, now what are we doing? Similar to what we were doing before, but with no overarching goal now? We're in Chapter 32 of the Mandalorian doing what? Something. We created a Force-sensitive character, but we're not really going to do anything Force-related with him. He's just going to fly around the galaxy and meet people. We had someone that was a Force-user to actually teach the child and do some cool Force stuff with, but we're not going to do that.

Okay, I guess...

Yes, I've gotten cynical. And sorry, but I have Obi-Wan on my mind...

 

But you can do plenty of Force sensitive things with the character, without literally dumping him off with another Force sensitive character. And the bond that Din and the Child share, the bond that will continue to grow between them, is larger than either one of their backgrounds individually.

You say that Din's quest to find a Jedi isn't some short term story arc but... he didn't get that mission until the end of the season one finale. By the time we actually see Ahsoka in the next episode it will only really be five full episodes (of thirteen) that have featured this as his dominant quest. There is plenty of room to explore other narratives once this part of their journey is behind them.

Come Chapter 32 of The Mandalorian we may be seeing these two working together to reclaim Mandalore or to discover ancient Jedi secrets or any number of other possible "quests," which could change from season to season, episode to episode, and further strengthen the bond between the two. As it stands currently they have a relationship unlike any other that we've seen between a Force user and a non-Force user in Star Wars to date. The Jedi and the Mandalorians have a notorious history as enemies, which some characters (like Ahsoka) have helped bridge in the past - this is the next evolution of that, and their path forward as that bond strengthens and that gap closes offers near infinite possibilities for adventures that the two of them can embark on.

 

Please don't take what I'm saying as negative or insulting, but you seem to have limited yourself ahead of time from imagining possibilities for this show. In one of my posts above, I said I expect the Child to synthesize Mando and Jedi culture, which would make him much more unique than other characters we have met so far in the GFFA. And yet for some reason you assume there's "nothing else" to do with him. I'm sorry you feel that way, but I think there's more possibility here if you forget what you know about typical Star Wars plots.

 

Yep, this is what I've been expecting too. The Armorer already dubbed them a "Clan of Two" and it is almost certain that Ahsoka is going to impart some Jedi wisdom on the Child (that will also double as a lesson for Din, even if he, as a non-Force user, enacts the philosophy in a way that is more in line with his creed).

George Lucas told Star Wars from the POV of the Jedi but it was really those symbiotic relationship between all lifeforms, of which the Jedi are only one part, that form the basis for what we see as the Force and as balance. And right now, Din and the Child are one of the purest forms of balance that Star Wars has offered for us in this modern, post-Lucas era. That these characters come from two entirely different walks of life, from two creeds that were literally at war with one another at one point in history, is no happy accident. The bond between them is the central focus of the series, and the relationship that will continue to expand, more so than either of the characters on their own are.

When I repeat that Din and the Child have a lot that they can teach one another over and over in my posts, this is the sentiment that I am most referring to. In a post-Return of the Jedi, post-Imperial rule galaxy where there is now an actual sense of "peace," it is important to remember that this was achieved by Jedi like Luke Skywalker, Ahsoka Tano, and Ezra Bridger who moved beyond the restrictions and failures of the Jedi Order of old. Why, then, should we just simply expect the Child (and other modern Jedi) be forced back into that rigid Jedi doctrine that the films have emphasized as being a failure? The Child is clearly being set on a path where, while he may train with a Jedi at some point in the future, he is going to learn a lot more about life and the galaxy and himself first, and most of that will come through the synthesis born of his relationship with Din.

 

It’s really simple. Mando and Baby Yoda will develop together (character) while pursuing different missions each season (plot). The mission the first season was to end the Bounty Hunter Guild threat to himself and Baby Yoda. The mission the second season is to find Baby Yoda’s people. The mission the third season may be for Din to find out where he came from, and why he was never told that he belonged to just one small Mandalorian cult. The season after that might be about him helping liberate Mandalore. And Baby Yoda will accompany him, while growing mentally, morally, physically, etc, including through increasingly purposeful and regular force usage, I imagine. Notice that in this last episode, we see that Baby Yoda can already follow (sort of) some simple instructions from Mando, and is starting to think critically. Big step. That was just the beginning, I’m sure.

This show is about a father and son growing and changing together. That’s the main thrust. The internal character story. Secondarily, the external plot(s) will be multiple different ones (as I described above), likely tied together by the overarching story of the New Republic’s failure to establish control and the rise of the First Order. That’s the show.

You’re far too stuck on the importance of the external plot. Unlearn what you have learned, and you’ll see that Mando and Baby Yoda are in this thing ‘til the end.

 

You're probably right that they're only droids, and this would certainly make sense given Din's experience with them and the idea that the Force can't easily be "injected" into things. However, I personally would like the Troopers to be a bit stranger than the usual droid antagonist. I also think Midis can be injected, but that the results create something monstrous, and that keeps us in line with the unnaturalness of it while still allowing cool weird creations.

Now Pershing's recent experiments may have failed, but that doesn't necessarily mean they always have. It just may mean Dark Troopers are difficult to create.

 

These guys brought some mapping back from a scouting expedition...\

I would like to see more to the Outer Rim than all these backwater worlds we have seen so far. Lianna and Eriadu are OR planets....and pretty well built up and populated.

 

We saw the outskirts of a city with massive high-rises at the beginning of this season.

 

It would be interesting seeing Din and the Child eventually have to go to a core world - potentially even Coruscant - for some purpose down the line. To give them a real change of scenery and take them (and the show) out of their comfortable element. I feel like the structure of The Mandalorian is ripe for a noir episode and Coruscant, maybe even the underbelly like level 1313, could be ripe for a narrative like that.

Could even do Canto Bight! The Razor Crest does look like one of their slot machines, after all.