Rogue One Was Baze the only one who didn't make a big contribution to the Battle of Scariff?

You claimed he did'nt apologize, I provided qoutes were he did.

I'm not trolling, it's an honest question; I pointed out how he admits his justifactions were only window dress to hide his guilt and you said it was too little to late, which indicates you think it would have only mattered if he had said it earlier.

1: He did'nt kill Galen; an X-wing airstrike he did'nt order and tried to call off killed Galen.
2: He did apologize for doing what he did; right before he leaves for Scarif he admits that he (and the others) have done horrible things in service to the rebellion and that it was wrong, expresses clear guilt and offers to make amands, and Jyn is moved by this and accepts his sentiment.
3: She was aggressive and rude to him as well, even though he had chosen to do the right thing and not kill her father (as well as tried to save her when he realized she was in danger due to her own actions). I understand that she was upset at that point, but neither of them were really at their best, so it seems odd to single one out for being a rude dick but give the other a pass.*
4: Only if you chose to end the film right before he offers her help on the mission to Scarif, as he very clearly acknowledge his position was wrong and showed remorse in that scene (it's kinda like the entire point of it).

*I'll be honest but if we're putting all our cards on the table I've always personally felt her anger came off as pretty misplaced in that scene and her attitude was a bit judgey and self-righteous.

I mean, that's not surprising, since he DID'NT kill Galen (unless you think he was somehow also flying the X-wing that carried out the bombing run, but I'm pretty sure he's not a Jedi who can force-project).

What he did apologize for was his flimsy justifications for why he ALMOST killed Galen and the general ills he had done in service to the Rebel cuase.

Why are you quibbling over specifics in grammer like that?

I know your not, but I thought you were; that was my bad, but again that's how your prose read and it's very hard sometimes to correctly interprete peaples moods online.

When did I ever say I was'nt fine with how you felt about the character?

Again, all I'm doing is pointing out what the movie says. I don't really care how you feel about the character, that's between you and your priest.

He did'nt "accept" anything; he was given orders and he, relectently, went along with them (for a time, before he realized he could'nt go through with them becuase they were illegally given).

I don't think you understand how militaries work; they say jump, you say how high. It's not a case of "I'm telling you do this thing, but only if you want to."

Your making it sound so insidious, lol; he had to get them out of the way, becuase if they were with him they would have tried to interfer with his mission. There really was no other way for him to go about it.

Well, flip side of the argument I thought it was more Jyn who was in the wrong in that situation, becuase he had just chosen to spare her father and do the right thing and she came in super judgey and acting like he HAD killed her (you say he was aggressive, but IMO she was the aggressive one and he was just being defensive). But I don't hate her becuase she never apologized to him for that

And he did'nt need to admit he was wrong becuase he did'nt do anything wrong; again, when push came to shove he chose NOT to kill her father.

If he had tried to call it off earlier Draven would have just ingored him and Galen would still have died; he only cared when he did becuase rebel personel were in danger, he would'nt have agreed otherwise.

It was'nt sarcasm. I'm geniunly confused.

He chose not to kill her father, so why should he have to apologize for that? - if anyone it's Draven who should apologize, since he gave the orders that got him killed (or if you want to be more personal the pilots of the X-wings). It seems really weird to blame the grunt on the ground who explictely decided NOT to kill the man for the man's death.

 

I think you're forgetting a critical detail in the film, actually, that is coloring your perception of Cassian a lot. After Cassian decides to not kill Galen, and after he realizes Jyn is on the platform, he asks K2SO to CALL OFF the X-wing attack (an attack he didn't even know was going to happen until K2SO tells him it's underway - remember that General Draven orders it only after he loses communications with Cassian and K2). The X-wing attack wasn't supposed to happen, and was never part of the plan. Cassian literally had no idea it was happening, and when he found out, he IMMEDIATELY tried to call it off with the only means available to him at the time.

After Cassian tells K2SO to have Rebel Command call it off, K2SO pleads with Rebel Command to do so. General Draven then tries to call them off, but his subordinates tell him it's too late because the X-wings are already engaged (meaning, they've silenced communications). So Cassian does exactly what you say he didn't do, and it's literally all he could do in that moment.

That new information, for you, should change your assessment of the character's actions during this scene. Significantly.

Nobody said you don't have a right to dislike the character. That's silly. We are having a reasonable discussion about Cassian's actions. And in this case, I am simply presenting you with important details of a scene in question that seems to be central to your condemnation of the character's actions, in general. So if we are operating on logic, that should affect your view of the character.

If you simply don't like his attitude, and the fact that he didn't explicitly apologize on camera (despite atoning for his previous sins), that's another matter, and you have a right to feel that way. We're just presenting a legitimate and fact-based articulation of what happened in the film, and why we think Cassian should be given a bit more credit (and less blame for Galen's death). That's all.

 

@Bor Mullet Well put, but it's even simpler then that for me; I was just pointing out what happened in the movie and were it conflicts with the interpritation being given. Beyond that accept or don't accept it, I don't really care *shrug*, but the movie says what it says.

 

I will give you that, for sure. And I was manipulated once again into going in cyclical arguments because as opposed to you, sometimes some people don't care for the well being of a conversation, and are actively trying with every word to be condescending and aggressive. However, the percentage of how responsible Cassian Andor was for Galen Erso's death is not that significant to me, because I am not putting him into trial for his murder. I have my own beef with the Rebellion anyway.

What seems silly to you, is apparently the way that others function in multiple threads, showing a complete lack of will to understand the other side, and trying to teach lessons, unsuccessfully of course.

However, my view of the character is not one where I think he is the murderer of Galen Erso. But he is the murderer of the contact on the Kafrene Ring. In cold blood. And the quote above is my most significant problem I have with him. It's not that he didn't apologize to the camera. It's that every time he is talking about how hard it has been for him, the fight, and the cause, the entire rhetoric is based on the idea that he doesn't ever seem to regret or show remorse for the things he's done. He is always justifying them. And the scene where I hated him is the one where Jyn Erso confronts him after her father died.

 

Makes sense. I just think he recovers from his unfortunate defensiveness in that conversation by supporting Jyn later, and dying for that choice. Jyn also didn't realize in the conversation that Cassian had declined to follow the order to kill her father, and had ordered the X-wings to stand down.

 

The Cassian discussion above was continued over in the Cassian thread... just making sure it doesn't get continued anymore here in this thread. Thanks.

 

If Baze represents anything in this war movie, it is the comradeship among soldiers. He and Chirrut remind me of Donald Pleasance and James Garner in The Great Escape, with Garner's character looking out for the other, who is blind. Pleasance didn't know kung fu though, obviously.

 

^ Ha!