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Mandalorian Alignment Chart Challenge

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV- Current and Future Shows' started by godisawesome , Dec 1, 2021.

  1. godisawesome

    godisawesome Skywalker Saga Undersheriff star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 14, 2010
    Since I’m a teacher who wants to decorate my room, I'm thinking about having some fun and making a D&D style Alignment Chart using Star Wars… and since the Mandos can more fluidly switch between the different alignments without changing designation like a Jedi or Sith would, I thought thye’d be good for them.

    What I’ve got so far is:

    Lawful good - Fenn Rau (This was the hardest category to pick for without going for Satine)

    Neutral Good - Din Djarin

    Chaotic Good - Sabine Wren

    Lawful neutral - The Armorer (I figure a fundamentalist fits the category)

    True neutral - Jango Fett

    Chaotic Neutral - Boba Fett

    Lawful Evil - Almec (I was trying to figure out high profile examples, but Gar Saxon fits the next one better)

    Neutral Evil - Gar Saxon

    Chaotic Evil - Pre Viszla

    How would you do it? Where would Bo-Katan go?
     
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  2. Glitterstimm

    Glitterstimm Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 30, 2017
    I think Bo-Katan would be lawful neutral, the way she went about the Darksaber, but idk. As to Jango, I think he’d be chaotic evil, at least in AOTC.
     
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  3. godisawesome

    godisawesome Skywalker Saga Undersheriff star 6 Staff Member Manager

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    Dec 14, 2010
    I think the thing for me is that Bo herself still doesn’t quite come off as truly lawful neutral, since she can flit between terrorist, rebel, lawful ruler, and exiled noblewoman pretty seamlessly.

    And Jango, as much as he, like his son, serves a Sith Lord, also and simultaneously fulfilled an ostensibly legal contract with Kamino for the Clone Army; if his old Legends background is kept and it’s made clear he knew what they were for, than I’d think chaotic evil might fit, but the dude’s also just a stone cold mercenary who was trusted professionally to fulfill dual and opposing roles for the proxie war the Sith set-up.

    Bo fits more the idea of a shifting morality type of neutrality; her moral axis revolves around Mandalore rather than right or wrong. Jango fits more the idea of a completely unbound mercenary who’s position is dictated entirely by cash.

    Does Pre as Chaotic Evil fit to anyone else? I think his hypocrisy, willingness to change the rules right up until he ran out of maneuvering room at the very end, and, weirdly, his inability to actually overthrow Satine or stay on a single side throughout the Clone Wars, or to successfully defeat any of his enemies in the long run, removes the pragmatism needed for both Lawful Evil and Neutral Evil.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2021
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  4. Glitterstimm

    Glitterstimm Force Ghost star 6

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    Dec 30, 2017
    I think Pre is definitely chaotic evil, because while he might believe he is following a code in the “old ways” he’s mostly about seizing power for himself, by any means.
     
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  5. godisawesome

    godisawesome Skywalker Saga Undersheriff star 6 Staff Member Manager

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    Dec 14, 2010
    Even beyond that, his conception of what a "proper" Mandalorian is lacks the pragmatism and practicality that other power-hungry Mandos have; Gar is an opportunist, but at least he's got enough awareness that his opportunism makes strategic sense.

    ...And I've been thinking that maybe sliding out Almec and replacing him with Jango might make more sense for lawful evil; Almec would be just as gone form my list as Satine is if he didn't have the armor - while I think the civilians and New Mandos count, I want the cooler stuff in armor. Jango is a mercenary and outlaw, but he's a professional mercenary, and being so trusted in that capacity he could be on both sides of the Clone Wars at its start might be the ultimate approximation of someone who has an order they follow but still ultimately causes greater harm than they should.

    Boba still feels like he should end up as Chaotic Neutral because of his current criminal ambitions but tendency to land on the anti-heroic side whenever he's a protagonist.
     
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  6. Django Fett

    Django Fett Force Ghost star 5

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    Nov 7, 2012
    I don't know if Jango was true neutral, he's strictly chaotic evil in his later life as the more decisions he makes, the situation become worse for him and his 'son'. If his history is allowed to follow closely to his Legends history it would go as far as making him true neutral, but as yet that's still a mystery. He was up to the point where he's wronged and forced from Mandalore, morally good, circumstances forced him into a life where he has to accept contracts from nefarious people but it's only when he accepots Tyranus' contract does he really cross the line to evil.

    As far as Bo-Katan.goes, she's essentially a person with a decent moral code, it's how she goes about things that really muddies the waters.

    I can see many people won't agree with the underlined part, may be I'm letting personal opinion of the character cloud my view.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2021
  7. godisawesome

    godisawesome Skywalker Saga Undersheriff star 6 Staff Member Manager

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    Dec 14, 2010
    I think she fits True Neutral better, especially if I decide that Jango being mercenary and and honoring contracts means he could be lawful evil; Bo's moral code is basically a more practical and somewhat less mindlessly evil version of Pre's nationalism, with those components meaning that while she can't be judged as "good" for Star Wars, she avoids being "evil".

    "Decency" doesn't really apply to what I think Bo's moral code should be judged by; she's on the same side of the moral scale as the Armorer in believing in a warrior lifestyle regardless of whether she has a cause or not (thus why she was allied with Pre), but Bo will unflinchingly break with some rules if she feels it would hurt the larger Mandalorian people.

    She's civil and cooperative compared to Pre... but its pretty clear she is still more transactional in her dealings with others rather than noble or altruistic, and I seriously doubt she regrets the pointless massacre of that village.
     
  8. Django Fett

    Django Fett Force Ghost star 5

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    Nov 7, 2012
    @godisawesome
    Where would you put Anakin Skywalker on that scale?

    Chaotic Good???
     
  9. godisawesome

    godisawesome Skywalker Saga Undersheriff star 6 Staff Member Manager

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    Dec 14, 2010
    Anakin as a Jedi would be Chaotic Good at his best, Chaotic Neutral at his worst.

    Vader is full on Lawful Evil, and arguably works great as an example of how someone who is a self-righteous rebel can become a fascist tyrant.

    If we're doing Bo at different points of her career, she ranges between chaotic evil with Pre to chaotic good when teamed with heroes against bad guys (and a presumed short lawful good period offscreen after TCW); Neutral is almost more like her batting average.

    ...I mean, part of the problem is that Star Wars has enough dynamic characters that the alignment chart would break for several because its too rigid. Its really only in comparison and with "cheats" that you can solidify anyone for a chart.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2021
  10. Gamiel

    Gamiel Chosen One star 9

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    Dec 16, 2012
    Jango and Boba are evil. They do assassins work, Jango kill an allie to keep her from possibly talking, Boba do terrorism bombings.
     
  11. Django Fett

    Django Fett Force Ghost star 5

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    Nov 7, 2012
    I don't believe you can separate Anakin and Vader, they're the same person. Anakin murdered a village full of Tusken women and children, something as bad as anyone else has done and still be considered redeemed.
     
  12. godisawesome

    godisawesome Skywalker Saga Undersheriff star 6 Staff Member Manager

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    Dec 14, 2010
    That's what I meant by how the characters of Star Wars are too dynamic to enforce a D&D ranking in a strict sense; the complexity of Anakin the Fallen Hero and Vader the Monster is just as dramatically tricky as Bo-Katan the Terrorist and Conspirator and Bo-Katan the Resistance Leader... except by how the films dramatically separate the personas for him and don't separate her personas.

    Bo's not as bad as Vader, but she never quite got as heroic as Anakin either; with out the persona separation, he's a greater monster than her but also won greater heroic victories than her as well. He's also more personally dynamic while she's more contextually dependent.
     
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  13. Django Fett

    Django Fett Force Ghost star 5

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    Nov 7, 2012
    @godisawesome
    I think at the time Bo is the leader the Mando's need, heroism doesn't necessarily come in to it. Yes it's inspirational but a Mando shouldn't need to be inspired by another Mando's heroic actions, that's not "the way".
     
  14. godisawesome

    godisawesome Skywalker Saga Undersheriff star 6 Staff Member Manager

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    Dec 14, 2010
    …I don’t even think she’s the hero Mandalore needs or ever really needed aside from maybe, and briefly, the end of TCW, because I think her deficiencies as a strategist and diplomat are glaringly obvious. Don’t get me wrong, she’s not as walking catastrophe like Pre Viszla is, but she’s too blatantly transactional in her diplomacy, myopic in her strategic vision, and clearly struggles with a larger command than her own faction.

    She’s a field general in a situation that constantly needs much more political acumen and a larger organizational skill, strategic perspective, and wider empathy then she has, and some of her deficiencies are tied to her ideals and elitism. Her sister may have been inadequate at handling Maul’s organized and massive false flag operation, but she clearly had the best handle on the larger political culture we’ve seen in the current setting, and could hold it against the kind of terrorist tactics Bo supported and was a part of herself.

    And Bo has twice benefitted from a kingmaker scenario from someone else who was more heroic than she was and had a greater empathy and strategic vision than Bo had… and both times Bo wound up being reduced back to her own smaller faction. Her falling prey to the Empire’s treachery is forgivable, but she had a connection to the Rebel Alliance in Rebels, and they came out on top as heroes of the Galaxy… and she’s clearly abandoned that alliance.

    Bo may be a cleaned up, more practical counterpart to Pre’s war mongering nationalism… but she’s still exposing the failures of the war mongering nationalism.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2021
  15. Gamiel

    Gamiel Chosen One star 9

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    Dec 16, 2012
    Why not go for Satine?
     
  16. godisawesome

    godisawesome Skywalker Saga Undersheriff star 6 Staff Member Manager

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    Dec 14, 2010
    My shallow as hell reason? She doesn't have armor.

    ...That's it. I initially thought of Almec as Lawful Evil, but only because he had armor in the last season, and part of the reason he's less secured and now gone is because he only wore the armor once. I am thinking strictly about what would look SICK in my classroom.

    Since Fenn has the armor and his faction was loyal to Satine, I figure he can occupy her place... and if F&F get ambitious enough to sneak Kevin McKidd onto set and have Rau make it past the OT, he could end up being more relevant for my students, who are much more likely to watch the Live Action shows.
     
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  17. Django Fett

    Django Fett Force Ghost star 5

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    Nov 7, 2012
    Morality may be best described by Migs Mayfield...
    [​IMG]
     
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  18. Ricardo Funes

    Ricardo Funes Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Dec 18, 2015
    Din Djarin starts True Neutral then ends Neutral Good.
     
  19. Bor Mullet

    Bor Mullet Force Ghost star 8

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    Apr 6, 2018
    You’re not really supposed to agree with Mayfeld. And of course, by the end of that episode, he drops his bothsiderism and recognizes that there’s a moral side and an immoral one in the galactic conflicts at play.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2021
  20. The Togruta Jedi

    The Togruta Jedi Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Nov 22, 2020
    I’d put Bo-Katan in just neutral. (Not good or evil) she literally looks out for only her interests and uses everything at her disposal (relationships, connections, etc) to serve her purpose and objectives.
     
  21. Glitterstimm

    Glitterstimm Force Ghost star 6

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    Dec 30, 2017
    True neutral is the weirdest D&D alignment imo, usually only makes sense for elementals or other non-mortal creatures with another level of consciousness. For mortal characters, I tend to think it applies to people who are extremely passive, letting whatever power is most present dictate their decisions.