Who is the arch-enemy of Obi-Wan?

Since there are a lot of discussions about Obi-Wan's new series, I wanted to see what people think about Obi-Wan's rivalries.

Anakin/Darth Vader:


I think the first clash started in Episode 2 Attack of the Clones,

Anakin: ''It's all Obi-Wan's fault. He's jealous''



Then Episode 3 Revenge of the Sith,

Anakin: "The Chancellor has requested... that I lead the campaign"

The film novelization has even this:

And then Anakin joins the dark side and the rivalry reaches to another level:

Episode IV A New Hope:

Vader: ''I've been waiting for you, Obi-Wan. We meet again, at last. The circle is now complete. When I left you I was but the learner. Now, *I* am the master.''

Ben Kenobi: ''Only a master of evil, Darth.''

Darth Vader: ''Your powers are weak, old man.''

Ben Kenobi: ''You can't win, Darth. If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine.''


Darth Maul:


They are unique rivals that fought in 3 different eras:

Spoiler

1- Before the Clone Wars
2- During the Clone Wars
3- After the Clone Wars, during the reign of the Empire

---------

Maul was the first Sith apprentice of Darth Sidious, a.k.a the Emperor of the Star Wars universe. According to George Lucas, losing Maul was not something that Sidious actually planned. This is how important Maul was.

While Obi-Wan was Obi-Wan, the original trio's first known Jedi knight, also known as Ben Kenobi, a general from the Clone Wars. He was the ''only hope'' of Princess Leia in the events of the Battle of Yavin, it's safe to say that while Maul was chronologically important, and a very important figure in the prequel trilogy, Ben Kenobi is even a more important figure and one of the iconic figures of the original trilogy.

George Lucas decides that these two must fight several times, first in the Battle of Naboo, and then in the Clone Wars, and then in the Age of Empire when Obi-Wan was hiding in Tatooine...

These two probably fought with each other more than any other two characters ever did in the series, it's the most iconic rivalry.

The Battle of Naboo - The Phantom Menace Episode I (1999 - Canon)



This is where Obi-Wan was in the line of being officially a Jedi Knight, his master Qui-Gon Jinn recommends Obi-Wan as a Jedi knight. And Obi-Wan believes that he is ready, but the Jedi council delays that so Qui-Gon couldn't take Anakin as his apprentice.

1000 years later, the Sith finally makes their move by using the Trade Federation and their army as their pawn. And they started their move with the planet Naboo. Although their actual plan was to show Naboo as a desperate and weak planet, so they could actually use this event to their advantage in the upcoming voting of the new chancellorship, so they could choose the Naboo's own senator Palpatine as the new Chancellor, who was actually the Sith master known as Darth Sidious.

The Gungan army fights against the Sith Lord's and the Trade Federation's droid army, while the Queen of Naboo and the Jedi were trying to capture the Viceroy of the Trade Federation and end the battle.

The battle starts at the gate in the Naboo Hangar, and they see the Sith Lord, who was trying to stop the Queen and her guards. Then the Jedi moves forward and tells others that they shouldn't interfere.

Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan perfectly fights as a team, they try to create an opening on Maul's defense, but that never happens. Instead, Maul kicks Obi-Wan during the duel, and disarms him and leaves him defenseless. Then he deals with Qui-Gon alone.

Qui-Gon fights equally with Maul for a while, but that doesn't last long, Maul starts to get the upper hand against Qui-Gon while Obi-Wan watches it desperately from the laser barriers that stopped him previously. Maul overpowers Qui-Gon and finishes him off with a lightsaber hilt bumping move, Obi-Wan screams in pain and then he turns this pain into a Force rage state, and he attacks Maul with all of his rage and hatred, and he manages to kick and cut Maul's weapon thanks to his adrenaline boost.

Then Maul once again gets the upper hand due to his superior fighting skills and he overpowers Obi-Wan in the saber lock, then he uses a Force push that hits Obi-Wan like a stone wall, it leaves Obi-Wan defenseless once again, shortly after he destroys Obi-Wan's lightsaber.

At this point Maul has basically won the duel, he killed Qui-Gon, outdueled the Force rage amped Obi-Wan and destroyed Obi-Wan's lightsaber. Obi-Wan failed to protect both his master and his lightsaber. I think Maul deserves a score here.

Maul 1-0 Kenobi.

After this victory, Maul starts to toy with unarmed Obi-Wan and he laughs at him. Then something that Maul would never think happens. Obi-Wan realizes that Qui-Gon's lightsaber was still there, and he suddenly jumps on Maul which surprises him and not only this, he doesn't realize Obi-Wan pulls Qui-Gon's lightsaber at the same. Before he can realize what is happening, Obi-Wan catches him off-guard. In the end Obi-Wan cuts Maul in two. It was a cheap-shot, but let's give a score to Obi-Wan here.

Maul 1-1 Kenobi.

Old Wounds - Visionaries Comic Book (2005 - Not Canon, Not Legends)



In this comic book, Maul survives being cut in half somehow (they don't show how) and he starts to follow Obi-Wan for revenge. He says that he has followed him since the Clone Wars, since he starts talking about Kamino and then he says that he found a corpse at Mustafar, by implying the corpse that he found was Anakin Skywalker.

But it takes years for Maul to find Obi-Wan on Tatooine since he doesn't find him in the Clone Wars, and we see that Luke Skywalker was around 3-4 years old when he finds Obi-Wan on Tatooine. Maul realizes that there was a ''son'' of Anakin Skywalker and when he says that word Obi-Wan's heart quickens and at that moment Maul hears the sound of Obi-Wan's heart and he knows that Obi-Wan was hiding all the time at Owen's house.

Maul says he knew that if he found the boy Obi-Wan would reveal himself. Obi-Wan's first question was asking that if Palpatine knows what Maul already knows, Maul answers it with ''There is no Palpatine, no Empire, no Jedi, no light, no dark... Just you and I here now!'' Obi-Wan stops hiding and at the same time Maul reveals his new double-bladed lightsaber and his mechanical legs. Maul starts fast, and he manages to kick Obi-Wan, and then he starts to choke him later.

Then Obi-Wan manages to save himself from Maul's choke and they continue to their lightsaber duel, Obi-Wan punches Maul's overgrown Zabrak horn with his backhand and then with a huge jump he cuts Maul's hand and his double-bladed lightsaber. In the last moment Maul manages to kick Obi-Wan once again, but just when he was Force pulling one side of his sliced double-bladed lightsaber Obi-Wan recovers quickly and he points his lightsaber through Maul's head.

But he still can't finish off already defeated Maul, instead of Obi-Wan, Owen Lars shoots him with his pistol from the rear. Since the comic book wasn't canon or even legends, I am not giving a score to Kenobi.

The Clone Wars - Season 4 Episode 22 ''Revenge'' (2012 - Canon)



Unlike the Visionaries comic book, this time we actually learned that how Maul survived the Battle of Naboo and the cheap-shot bisection from Obi-Wan Kenobi. In the last moment, by using the Dark Side of the Force, Maul clings to life and somehow he manages to save himself and went to an off-world to exile, to the planet Lotho Minor.

But because of using too much Dark Side energy, Maul actually loses his mind. But somehow he still manages to live as a Spider creature with metalic legs like state. He says ''It has been so long and my path has been so dark, darker than I ever dreamed it could be.'' In Lotho minor, a snake like creature named Morley feeds Maul by luring the other people towards him, and every one of them becomes Maul's victims and his meals. When Maul finishes off his meals, Morley eats the leftovers. That's how Maul continues to live for years in Lotho Minor.

Despite his lack of mental health, one time Maul actually tries to leave the Junk World by using the Dark Side of the Force, he sends a transmission to the spaceship Salvage-1 and to its droid captain Spikewheel. He manages to get on to the ship and he destroys the droid captain and the crew member Gritz, but eventually he fails when the other crew member removes all the cargo from the ship alongside with Maul.

Later on, with Mother Talzin's and his brother Savage Opress's help, Maul manages to escape from Lotho Minor, and then Talzin heals his Maul's mind.

Maul challenges Kenobi through sending a transmission, and he says that if Kenobi doesn't come alone, he will kill all the people in the planet Raydonia.

Windu proposes to send reinforcements alongside with Kenobi, but Kenobi insists that he must go alone, Yoda also agrees with Kenobi. Then Kenobi goes to Raydonia and he faces with Darth Maul. Just when he was expecting a one-on-one duel, Maul surprises Kenobi by using Savage Opress who was hiding to ambush Kenobi, and so two of them together easily captures Kenobi by using the element of surprise.

Just when Kenobi was defeated and helpless, Asajj Ventress comes to rescue him. She sneaks on their starship, and she helps Kenobi by giving a lightsaber. Then the duel starts between Maul / Savage vs. Kenobi / Ventress.

Maul was kind of rusty for not using his lightsaber for years, but he adapts quickly during the duel, and he kicks Obi-Wan to a far distance first, then he taunts him by mentioning about Qui-Gon's death.

Obi-Wan gets enraged and once again, the Force rage gives him an advantage for a while, however Maul fends off Kenobi's power strikes, and overpowers him with another powerful kick. At this point, Kenobi realizes that he can't win the duel against Maul and he proposes Ventress to escape together.

Obi-Wan and Ventress manages to escape in the last second.
Maul wins this duel.

Maul 2-1 Kenobi.

The Clone Wars - Sith Hunters Comic Book (2012 - Legends)



Instead of following Kenobi, Maul and Savage goes to the planet known as the Yellowblade's landing, where they come across a wealthy girl by luck and they decide to use her for their own plans.

While Obi-Wan and Plo Koon, and a couple of Jedi, decides to follow the Sith, and they manage to find Maul's and Savage's location in the Yellowblade's Landing,

Obi-Wan faces with Maul once again, he says ''You can't win Darth. You and your apprentice are vastly outnumbered.'' , but just before the Clone troopers and the several Jedi knights can capture them, Maul realises the Wampa beasts that are hiding inside the building. The wild and powerful beasts keep the Clone troopers and the Jedi busy while Maul and Savage escapes.

Just before they can escape, one of the Jedi calls Savage coward, and Savage turns and cuts the Jedi padawan's hand, before he can finish him, Maul stops Savage and tells him that he should prepare the spaceship for their escape.

Right at this moment Obi-Wan arrives and he challenges Maul. With the Dark Side of the Force, Maul uses a powerful Force choke and almost crushes Obi-Wan's windspipe. Obi-Wan is defeated, but his Jedi friends Plo Koon, the Jedi knight Grohto and the Clone troopers comes to rescue him,



And then Maul and Savage leaves the planet while Obi-Wan was injured and lying on the floor.

Maul wins this fight too. But since this is not canon, it's legends, no need to add it to the scorecards.

The Clone Wars - Season 5 Episode 01 ''Revival'' (2012 - Canon)



This time Maul was patient, and he doesn't follow Kenobi for his revenge so soon. Instead he takes his time, and he fights with other factions, and other Jedi knights, and even kills one of them (Finn Ertay) during the timeline between these two Clone Wars episodes. Then they attack the Cybloc system in the Outer rim territories.

While in Coruscant, Kenobi and another Jedi council member Adi Gallia (who was Qui-Gon Jinn's friend) proposes to capture the Sith once again, Anakin also wants to join them, but Chancellor Palpatine finds a way to stop Anakin to help Kenobi and Adi Gallia, so this time only the two Jedi goes to capture the two Sith in the Outer rim territories.

Maul forces Hondo Ohnaka's Space pirates to join their new organization, and with the 3 spaceships and with the Hondo's remaining pirate lieutenants, they attack the planet Florrum and Hondo's pirate base.

Just before they can arrive there, Kenobi contacted with Hondo, and they agreed to fight against the Sith together.

Before Maul's space pirates could prevail against Hondo's men, Kenobi and Adi Gallia arrives, and they attack the Sith. Another lightsaber duel between Maul and Kenobi begins, they fight equally until Savage manages to kill Adi Gallia, after seeing this Obi-Wan gets enraged and kicks Savage, catches him off-guard, but just before he can deliver the finishing blow, Maul stops Obi-Wan's lightsaber, and then he forced Obi-Wan to escape.

Obi-Wan flees to the tunnels alone after Adi Gallia's death.

This is another win for Maul.

Maul 3-1 Kenobi.

In the second round, Obi-Wan decides to use a different strategy in a confined area, so the brothers could get each other's way during the duel, and this time Obi-Wan uses Jar'Kai (dual blades) to surprise them. And he lures the Brothers away from the Space pirates, in here Obi-Wan manages to kick Savage's left leg several times, (where Adi Gallia previously hit before she died) however Maul uses the Force, and he slams Obi-Wan through the stone walls and he staggers him.

Before they can finish off Kenobi, in the last second Kenobi manages to hit Savage's left leg once again, and finds an opening on Savage's defense and he cuts Savage Opress's left arm.

Although Maul was fine, but it's still a score for Kenobi for cutting Savage's arm.

Maul 3-2 Kenobi.


But then before Kenobi could attack Maul, Maul uses a powerful Force push that sends Kenobi flying tens of meters, shakes the tunnel and knocks Kenobi out for a while. Maul essentially beats Kenobi again.



Kenobi got KOed.

Maul 4-2 Kenobi.

But Savage was injured and Maul needed to save his injured apprentice, so they decide to leave the planet together. Then the Space pirates betrayed Maul and that's where Maul gets into trouble, they start to run from the Space pirates and he had to bring down a spaceship by using the Force to delay his pursuers, and then finally they managed to escape from Hondo's Space pirates.

The Clone Wars - Season 5 Episode 16 ''The Lawless'' (2013 - Canon)



This time Maul allies himself with the Mandalorians, who are powerful warriors. And then he makes a plan to create a galactic underworld, which includes intergalactic crime syndicates such as the Hutts, the Pykes, the Crimson Dawn and the Black Sun.

He gains the control of the planet Mandalore, then kills Pre Vizsla, and captures Duchess Satine.

He uses Duchess Satine to lure Kenobi out. As he predicted, Satine contacted with Kenobi and the Jedi council, but the Jedi council can't send any reinforcements to Mandalore without the approval of the Galactic Senate, because Satine never wanted to join in any war, which includes the Clone Wars and they stayed neutral and they didn't join the galactic war against the Separatist forces.

For this reason the Jedi council can't help. But Kenobi decides to go on his own, and he borrows a spaceship from Anakin. Anakin also wanted to help Kenobi, but once again the Chancellor finds a way to stop Anakin, and he prevents him to join Kenobi's secret mission to the planet Mandalore.

Kenobi successfully infiltrates inside the palace, and he saves Duchess Satine from the prison, however Maul and his men were expecting Kenobi's arrival, and they attack Kenobi's spaceship with a rocket launcher when they tried to escape, before they can escape their spaceship crashes to the port. And Kenobi realizes that Satine is wounded after the crash and he uses the Force to remove the wreckage that fell over Satine, and then he realizes that Maul is responsible for this attack, he sees him and he ignites his lightsaber.

Before Kenobi can attack Maul, Maul uses a powerful Force choke and he pulls him with the Force. He lifts Kenobi by using one hand and he disarms Kenobi's lightsaber with his other hand. At this point, Kenobi is captured, and Maul's plan worked perfectly. And shortly after this, Maul executes Duchess Satine in front of Kenobi, and takes his revenge, and he sends Kenobi to a prison cell to rot.

Maul wins another round against Kenobi.

Maul 5-2 Kenobi.

The Clone Wars - Son of Dathomir Part 3 (2014 - Canon)



After escaping from the CIS captivity, (which Darth Sidious puts Maul there after killing Savage Opress), with the help of his loyal Mandalorians, Maul once again makes a plan to take his revenge from both Sidious and Kenobi, but this time Sidious was his priority.

At the same time, the Jedi learns the battle between Maul's Shadow Collective and Grievous's CIS droid army, and they send their Clone troopers and the Jedi knights to capture both Dooku and Maul. These Jedi strike team was consisted of Mace Windu, Aayla Secura, Tiplee and Obi-Wan Kenobi.

Maul captures Dooku and Grievous in the battle, and then Maul and Talzin ask Dooku to join them instead of serving Sidious, Dooku wasn't ready to abandon Sidious, however he doesn't say no, before they can finish the negotiations, they learn that the Jedi and the Clone troopers attacks the Mandalorian outpost, and they inform Maul about it.

Then Maul asks Dooku that what's going to be? Death or allies. Dooku answers it with ''let us go kill some Jedi together.'' , and Maul says ''wise decision.''

Obi-Wan surprised see that Maul and Dooku are working together, and Maul says that the only of their shared hatred of the Jedi could be strong enough to unite them.

The battle continues in off-panel, we see only that Obi-Wan shows his classic Soresu opening stance against Maul while Maul holds his Darksaber with two hands. And Tiplee matched with Dooku.

Before we can see any action, Mace Windu and Aayla Secura arrive for the battle, then somehow Maul and Dooku changes their Jedi opponents. Maul goes after Windu and Aayla, while Dooku goes after Obi-Wan and Tiplee.

Maul has successfully held Mace Windu back, and kicks Aayla Secura at the same time. He doesn't ask any help from Dooku. So Dooku could deal with the weaker matchup, he sends a Force lightning to Obi-Wan and Tiplee, and both of them deflects Dooku's lightning successfully with their lightsabers, meanwhile the Mandalorian guards see the duels, and they prepare their rockets to help their leader Maul.

And then Dooku uses the Force to pull Tiplee during the duel and he kills her with a lightsaber stab.

Obi-Wan cries in pain, and he fails to save Tiplee.



While the Mandalorians were ready to help Maul and they send their rocket towards Aayla Secura, Maul successfully protects himself from the explosion while Aayla and Windu got KOed. Then Maul and Dooku make an exit to their spaceship while Obi-Wan was defeated and helpless.

In the end Mace Windu and Obi-Wan fails to capture Maul and Dooku, and the Jedi Tiplee dies during the battle.

Mission to Tatooine - Rebels Twin Suns (2017 - Canon)



Maul actually expected to see Kenobi in the Siege of Mandalore for the last time in the Clone Wars so they could finish their unfinished business. But Grievous and Dooku manage to kidnap the Chancellor Palpatine, and Kenobi had to choose between joining the Siege of Mandalore and facing with Maul, or joining his friend Anakin to save the Chancellor Palpatine. Kenobi chooses to save the Chancellor, so that last duel between Maul and Kenobi never happens in the Clone Wars.

Afterwards that the majority of the Jedi dies because of Order 66 and also because of the attack on the Jedi temple. And at this point, Maul starts to believe that Kenobi actually died during the Clone Wars and after, and he believes Kenobi might not be alive during the Age of Empire, just like the majority of the Empire and the Rebels believed that Obi-Wan Kenobi has actually died.

However, 17 years after the Clone Wars, Maul still has hope to kill Kenobi so he could move along with that past he could get rid of his obsession about Kenobi. But he doesn't know where Obi-Wan is or if he is still alive or not.

Maul decides to use his secret knowledge about the Jedi and the Sith holocrons, Maul could actually use that now because;

A) He learned from Ezra Bridger that Kanan Jarrus has a Jedi holocron.

B) He and Ezra already have acquired a Sith holocron from Malachor.

He knew that if he could reach both of the holocrons, he could learn the secret knowledge. And if he captures the Ghost crew he could take the Jedi holocron as well. He demands that both of the holocrons from Ezra and Kanan after capturing the Ghost crew.

Now Maul has a Jedi (Ezra) who can unlock the Jedi holocron too, since Maul couldn't unlock the Jedi holocron by himself even if he could get both of them.

It was a perfect chance to learn if Kenobi lives and if he does, and where was he.

Maul and Ezra combined the Jedi and the Sith holocrons, and they actually learn the secret knowledge of destroying the Sith (the key was Luke Skywalker) and Kenobi's location at the same time.

After learning Kenobi's location, Maul goes to Tatooine, and he senses Kenobi's presence in the Force, ''I can see him in my mind's eye.'', but Kenobi hides from Maul and he still doesn't want to be found on Tatooine.



At this point Kenobi knows that the fight against Maul is almost inevitable, and if he has to face him he needs to be prepared; Kenobi says ''Maul is an old adversary, and persistent one at that. One doesn't survive as long as I have by being foolish or unprepared.''

Previously, Maul makes a plan by using the Sith holocron, he uses his Sith abilities to deceive the young Jedi Ezra Bridger, and he reaches him through the Jedi holocron, he gives him the impression that Kenobi is in danger and he draws Ezra to the planet Tatooine.

Ezra goes to Tatooine, and in there Maul telepathically manipulates Ezra Bridger, and deceives him and leaves him alone in the desert where the droid Chopper and Ezra gets knocked out due to the extreme conditions. That's where Ben Kenobi had to reveal himself and save Ezra Bridger and his droid.

And that's exactly what Maul wants, when Ben Kenobi revealed himself, he could easily find him in the desert, and he does.

The lightsaber duel starts after Ezra Bridger goes back to his spaceship. Maul says that he came to kill Kenobi, but after seeing the condition of Kenobi, he says that ''Look what have become of you, a rat in the desert. I've come to kill you, but perhaps its worst to leave you here, festering in your squalor.''

Maul completely underestimates Ben Kenobi due to Kenobi's current poor condition in Tatooine. He doesn't realize that Kenobi was protecting the Chosen One, Luke Skywalker.

Kenobi doesn't want to fight, or capture Maul anymore as he wanted in the Clone Wars. This time he isn't interested in Maul, he doesn't seek any battles, he is just doing his ''secret job'' which was probably the most important thing in the galaxy right now.

Of course Maul was clever, and he wanted Kenobi to fight. He wants to provoke him. And Maul starts to sense that what Kenobi is actually doing on Tatooine; ''Why come to this place, not simply to hide. Oh, you've a purpose here. Perhaps you're protecting something. No (with the voice of Sith Chant in the background), Protecting someone.''

This is where Maul actually senses the truth about Kenobi's secret mission.

At this point, Kenobi couldn't allow Maul go free, according to the director Filoni, Kenobi was ''When pressed, because Obi-Wan is protecting someone else in the end, he does fight. But because he is so true and knows who he is in that moment, you can’t defeat that.'', he was amped, he immediately ignites his lightsaber. And takes a Soresu opening stance, which he took several times in the Clone Wars against Maul.

Then Maul takes his own Juyo stance, and he counters Kenobi. This is like a ''game within a game almost'' according to the animation supervisor Keith Kellogg.

The writer Henry Gilroy states that ''The actual lightsabers hitting each other is actually longer because they’re basically playing it out in their heads''.

Then Kenobi realizes that stance is not going to work against Maul.

As Dave Filoni says, Maul as well, was capable of dispatching Ben Kenobi;

Kenobi's tactics didn't work in the Clone Wars. It won't work now. According to the Maul's voice actor Sam Witwer, ''he takes a breath, no no... That was a mistake that young Obi-Wan did, I am actually Ben Kenobi. I am a different guy. And let's see if I can trick him with the old Qui-Gon pose. So he could lure Maul as if Maul could replicate the same victory that he gained against his old master Qui-Gon.''

And he says Maul thought that Kenobi was an old desert rat, not an active Jedi master on guard duty. Which is why Maul underestimates him.



He was wrong. He wrongly underestimates his opponent and he goes for the killing move directly as if he could easily kill him.

After getting cut by Kenobi, Maul understands that Kenobi was doing something extremely important for the galaxy, which is why Maul anticipates that ''is it the chosen one?'', and Kenobi answers that ''yes, he is''.

Kenobi wins the final round; 5-3.

The final scorecard is; Maul 5-3 Kenobi.


This is the end of my review about Kenobi vs Maul rivalry and Kenobi vs. Vader rivalry, so what do you guys think, who is the no.1 arch-enemy of Obi-Wan Kenobi?

 

Grievous.

 

Death sticks.

 

Obiwan is Maul’s archenemy, but Vader is Obiwan’s.

 

I think a strong argument could be made for both so I did not vote and I don't think that the Obi-Wan Kenobi show will change this because Maul certainly had a huge impact and was Obi-Wan's enemy for a longer timespan. That being said, Vader being Obi-Wan's apprentice and falling to the dark side is also huge but Vader ultimately became a friend again. If Vader died on the dark side I think it would be Vader otherwise it's a toss up for me but maybe leaning towards Maul.

 

Obi kills Maul twice. I think that's five points per victory to House Kenobi, not one.

Vader is Obi's nemesis, Obi is Maul's.

 

Precisely.

 

Kenobi fought to avenge his master, while Maul never wanted to kill Kenobi, he had his own plans. Maul defeated him all the time he fought Obi Wan from TPM to TCW, Maul kept sparring him and tossing him around.

I Never Planned On Killing You But I Will Make You Share My Pain, Kenobi." - Darth Maul

"Surrender. We are two, and you are no match for us both." - Darth Maul

Maul's archenemy was in actuality the Sith/Sidious and the Jedi in a generalized and personal sense - primarily since they never came to Dathomir for him - along with Sidious' other betrayals on his family.

Vader more wanted to kill Kenobi, while Kenobi didnt appear willing to kill his former pupil in ROTS and even later in ANH. Kenobi also passes the buck to Luke to kill Darth Vader and avenge the Jedi Order by killing both Vader and the Emperor.

 

How can you kill someone twice? Lol.

Either you think he died in TPM then you don't acknowledge Maul's Post-TPM story or if you acknowledge Maul's post-TPM TCW/Solo/Rebels story, then Maul didn't die in TPM. He survived, only Jedi wrongly thought that Maul died just like they wrongly thought Sith was extinct before.

Also Maul in return killed Obi-Wan's master Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan's love Satine and then Maul choose not to kill Obi-Wan on purpose as @Vorax said.

 

I think you know what I mean.

 

I know which is why I said you either accept post-TPM story where Maul didn't die in TPM, if you don't then he just died in TPM and its over.

 

flying, he hates it

 

Are we separating Anakin from Vader? If not, I don't think he views Vader that way. Maul killed his master, Vader is his pupil. There will always be some inherent hate for the former and love for the latter.

 

OWK and Anakin have such a strong relationship, so it hurts each other incredibly so when they feel the other betrayed them. Maul is Qui-Gonn's executioner to OWK, but as time passes OWK understands Maul was just a pawn of Sidious.

 

The Tatooine Suns. Just look at how they aged him in 18 years.

 

Scorecard is useless, of course they were keeping Maul alive because he is a popular character. And how can you give Maul a point in their first encounter when he was cut in half and technically killed?
Obi Wan killed Maul not once but twice, he is Maul’s daddy. And not even his main adversary. Vader is.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

You haven't quite understood what I meant @Erkan12 , but @Vasco_Rojo has given a similar, and more clearly explained, view (thank you).

I admire the effort you've gone to, to provide the Obi v Maul and Obi v Vader timelines. I enjoyed them.

 

So you needed the quote the whole thing for no reason lol?

Keeping someone alive for being popular applies to almost every character.

How can I give a point? Easy. Because unlike Vader and others, Maul killed Obi-Wan's master and he altered the course of Anakin's and Obi-Wan's life by doing that. Even him losing his Sith lord status caused Anakin's fall to the dark side as Sidious needed a new apprentice. Maul proved he is the superior fighter by disarming his opponent, that's why its a point, in the Jedi sparring sessions and in sparring competitions, if you disarm your opponent you win the fight. That's basically means Maul won. Obi-Wan just surprised him with an extra weapon from dying Qui-Gon, when Maul was toying with Obi-Wan. Maul's own overconfidence let him to get cut in half, not Obi-Wan's skills. Otherwise Obi-Wan's master would be alive and Obi-Wan's own original first lightsaber wouldn't be destroyed.

Based on this logic Obi-Wan also cut Anakin but couldn't kill him in the end.

You can't kill someone twice LOL. Did Obi-Wan kill Anakin for cutting him into pieces and burning him alive?

Maul was in the same situation as Anakin after TPM, he didn't die. But he at least killed his master Qui-Gon, and disarmed him, destroyed his weapon, and toyed with him unlike Anakin could.

Then in the Clone Wars he beat him several times, his apprentice even killed Obi-Wan's Jedi friend Adi Gallia in front of Kenobi, Kenobi couldn't stop it because of Maul, Maul even killed Obi-Wan's love Duchess Satine in front of Obi-Wan, when Obi-Wan was just helpless to do anything.



Then Maul sparred Obi-Wan's life on purpose.

Maul could kill Obi-Wan if he wanted.

--Savage: ''Do we kill him now brother?''
--Maul: ''No. Imprison him below, let him frown in his misery. Take him to his cell to rot.. ''

I think you didn't understand a very simple thing about killing someone.

Maul doesn't have 2 lives.

He has 1 life like everyone else. You two just don't want to see Maul besting Kenobi (which is fine), and making up things like this to prevent this.

Producers even said it should be Obi-Wan that kills Maul because they ''Robbed'' Obi-Wan's victory on Naboo by bringing Maul back. Because Maul didn't die.

According to your logic Anakin also died when Obi-Wan cut him and burned him alive but Anakin didn't die just like Maul didn't die.

Maul's and Vader's survival was very similar and almost the same as explained here:

Also in the last fight, Kenobi was hiding from Maul all the time, while Maul find him by force, its not like Obi-Wan had any mission to kill Maul.

It was a self defense mechanism by using his long dead master Qui-Gon's stance to trick Maul so he could survive. If he didn't kill him, Maul could even find Luke and he was also going to kill him, as Maul killed Qui-Gon, and Satine.

 

I think the removal of Maul is maybe a mistake, we will see.

 

Erkan, I give you a lot of credit for all the references and argumentation.

But this statement is incorrect, characters in Star Wars and other fictions can and do die multiple times. It is not real life my friend. So Obi Wan indeed killed Maul twice, and he never got a single scratch. That is how I count it.

Best, Obi Best Kenobi : )


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You say you give credit but at the same time you don't read lol.

Sidious said he died because he switched bodies. Maul remained in the same body. This is the obvious difference that you don't understand. Two different things. Yes in Star Wars they can die twice but that didn't happen to Maul. While Maul's survival was related to his dark side mastery, he didn't have the same dark side knowledge that Sidious and Plaguies have so he can't resurrect himself (not even Plaguies unless he is ready for it)

Producers said Maul survived just like Anakin survived, he didn't die like you believe LOL, read the quote. They even compared the two with each other which debunks your illogical claim about dying.

Here:
Dave Filoni: ''The Force is what holding his (Maul's) body together. So Vader holds on to life at the edge of the lava flow, because he is such a condemned for Obi-Wan, such an anger for whose happens in his life. And that same type of focus, hatred what sustains Maul.''
---Source: Star Wars Celebration Clone Wars Season Five Premiere (2012)

''Sustains''

You know what sustains means right? The quote doesn't say Maul was resurrected, it says he ''holds on to life'' just like Anakin did.

If you read the ''Sith Hunters'' comic book you can clearly see Maul still had his conscious and he kept fighting during all of his travel to Lotho Minor, if you don't know that as well I can show it to you.

Obi-Wan never legitimately win against Maul, after his weapon got destroyed (in the Jedi sparrings that's the end of the competition, disarming your opponent), he cheap-shotted Maul by using Qui-Gon's weapon because of Maul's overconfidence (not because of Obi-Wan's skills as you believe) which is why Maul refused to die there and you still keep saying he died in TPM lol. You can't have both. If you are one of the people who think in their head canon that Maul's survival isn't acceptable then Maul died in TPM and that's it, if you accept post-TPM story then Maul didn't die if you can read the quote above. Its that simple, not sure why you insist on trying to have both.

As for Kenobi not getting a scratch, that's not true as well, Maul knocked Kenobi out unconciousness several times not just once, he tortured him physically and mentally by killing Qui-Gon, and then Satine in front of him.

It looks you still don't read since Maul was in the position to kill Obi-Wan but he chose not too,

--Savage: ''Do we kill him now brother?''
--Maul: ''No. Imprison him below, let him drown in his misery. Take him to his cell to rot.. ''
--- The Clone Wars Season 5

They are talking about Kenobi here if you are wondering.

And you still talk about killing as if Maul couldn't kill him if he wanted, and when Obi-Wan was hiding from Maul on Tatooine and didn't even want to fight until Maul found about Luke's existence.

 

Ekran, this is a lot of fun. I like chatting about this. Let me answer some of these points

1- giving you credit does not mean I have to agree with you. I give you credit for supporting your arguments with evidence, even though i do not agree with all of that. This is like speech debate my friend.

2- I based my points in movie facts, not statements from producers that are rationalizing bringing a character back from the dead. Maul did die in episode I. He even remained dead for the entire prequel trilogy. Kenobi was the first Jedi to best a sith in a thousand years. That is a movie fact. Of course we know what happened, Maul is a really cool character and they had to find a way to bring him back. But he was killed fair and square first. And the again. I know it is not life logic, but it is movie logic.

3- You cannot take away Obi Wan’s victory in Naboo. You cannot break the battle into two, or say he lost after his saber was destroyed. The battle is not over until is over, and it was only over when Obi Wan sliced Maul in half and again, killed him. You are over rationalizing that battle. Maul as every sith was overconfident in his abilities and lost. But there is only one end to the encounter.

4- And could Maul have killed Kenobi in Mandalore? Well, maybe. Who knows? But it never happened. Maybe if they had tried Obi Wan would have blocked the blow. Jedi are capable of impossible feats. Vader thought he could kill Kenobi too. Never happened.

We’ll never agree Erkan, but it is fun to share perspectives.

Btw, and just for fun, I share a question that my son has asked me: how does Maul go to the bathroom? He probably has no intestines? : )



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I didn't say you should agree, I said you don't read, because I am not trying to make you agree with my opinions, I showed you facts, when you see facts, it's not up to personal opinions, as I said right now you still don't read. If you read you can see the facts, which you can't argue about it. I don't care what your personal opinion is or not, I am not going to argue about your personal opinions, I am talking about facts.

Same producers decided to bring Maul back and told us that he didn't die, and you accept their story, so of course it's a good source.

Which is why I told you and @DannyD that you two can stop right here if you think he really died in Episode I.

If you think he died and didn't survive, then you can ignore the rest. The problem is, you want BOTH. You want to see both he died, but then you also accept the rest of Maul's story, and say that he died twice, that's not how it works, LOL. Either you ignore rest of Maul's story, which means he died and it's over in TPM, or you can accept the rest of his story, which means Maul DIDN'T die (because they specifically told us he didn't die) and he continue to live, he wasn't resurrected as you just made up.

They brought Sidious back, it's almost the same, ''almost''. The difference is Sidious really died, he just changed his physical body. So Sidious actually died twice.

Maul didn't die, he didn't change his physical body, or he didn't use some kind of clonning experiment like Sidious did, they could bring Maul with that way if the producers wanted, Maul would have a complete new body, not the old one, then you could say Maul actually died, but they specifically told us Maul was still alive after getting cut in two in TPM and they compared this to Anakin's survival on planet Mustafar. Which part you don't understand of this?

If you are focused on only with killing, then as I said, Maul killed 2 people that Obi-Wan loved, and in front of him when Obi-Wan was helpless because of Maul. Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon went to battle against Maul, Obi-Wan failed to protect Qui-Gon, he came back from Naboo without his master. He went to save Duchess Satine, he failed, he came back again with empty hands, without Satine.

Maybe? I showed you that how Kenobi was helpless to do anything after getting knocked out unconscious by Maul, you say ''Maybe''? LOL.

Ok, this is your maybe?





And this (second time) ?



You think this is ''maybe'' ? LOL.

Kenobi: ''My last encounter with Maul didn't go so well.''
----Source: Darth Maul - Son of Dathomir #03 (2014)

Even Kenobi said this, yet you say ''maybe''.

The thing is, you think killing is the most important thing here, while Maul leaves Obi-Wan alive ''on purpose'', you understand this right? He leaves Obi-Wan alive on purpose, you can't argue about killing at this point, when Maul still toys with Obi-Wan's life, and considers him not worthy to kill.

Even Obi-Wan too, wasn't focused on killing Maul after the Clone Wars, he was HIDING from Maul on Tatooine, didn't even fight him until he had no other choice because he had to protect Luke from Maul.

This is not about personal opinions, as I said, it's a fact that:

- Maul didn't die in TPM (if you accept the rest of Maul's story)
- Maul could kill Obi-Wan if he wanted, he choose not too, so this debunks your argument about killing.
- Maul killed 2 most important people in Obi-Wan's life, and Obi-Wan couldn't do anything about it, if you want to give scores based on killing someone.

While you are talking about non-existent things like Maul dying twice or killing means everything when Maul spared Obi-Wan's life on purpose and you say giving a point is useless etc LOL.

 

My comment wasn't meant to be understood literally as a critique. It was figurative and light-hearted, @Erkan12 .

Why set a poll if you don't want to invite a different view?

Anyway, you don't need to explain your perspective to me. I understand it and I'm sure lots of others do too.