Mini Series Official "Obi-Wan Kenobi" Series Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

Arrogance is a common theme with the Empire from the top down: they think they're better than they are. 'Who needs a shield when you're awesome like us?'

Maybe the attack on the Fortress had an impact on the planned defences of the Death Star. They may have originally thought that that was too terrifying to attack.

 

By the way I hope we get full CGI Tarkin soon

 

I’ve been enjoying everything more than you, but I agree completely that the cinematic brilliance of Mando 1 Chapters 2, 3 and 7 have not been matched since. And to me, that has to do with the killer combination of Greig Fraser and Baz Idoine as DPs, Deborah Chow and Rick Famuyiwa as directors, and John Favreau as writer and show-runner. This team needs to work together again.

To me the Mandalorian is simply better conceived as a concept and narrative, better shot (having the benefit of one of the best DPs in the business), and better written overall than the other two live action shows. Has nothing to do with legacy characters being ruined or not.

 

Mando at its absolute best is up there with Star Wars best work. Period. That’s a very high bar to leap and I take issue with and probably won’t ever fully understand this whole “if it’s not a 9 or 10 out of 10 it’s basically a 1 or 2 out of 10” mindset some have regarding Star Wars works. It feels rooted in legacy protectionism and a perfectionist mindset.

I absolutely want and hope for all new works to reach the heights of ANH, TESB, the best of Mando and Rogue One. Those works have the most unity between critics, casual mainstream audiences and the hardcore fandom. They’re the hardest to attack (though EVERY SW work can and is attacked).

But there’s absolutely a place in the GFFA for 6.5-7.9 out of 10 Star Wars works also for anyone who wants to spend time in the GFFA more than most other cinematic/TV universes out there. Works in that range aren’t crap. They’re solid entertainment for those of us who care more about being entertained in the GFFA than we do of how Star Wars as a brand is perceived in society.

Kenobi, by the way, is on the very high end of that secondary spectrum IMHO. 7.5-7.9/10 range.

 

I'm becoming increasingly concerned about the lack of adherence to canon in Disney Star Wars and Kenobi is just the most recent glaring example of it. That said, I never have expected perfect adherence to canon because that would be ridiculous, but Kenobi is just a bit too obvious about it. I do have concerns about some of the acting in the show (some of it feels like fan fiction quality of acting and that's not a compliment) but I can overlook that usually. But the canon breaking writing is just too hard to swallow in this show. Unfortunately Star Wars is losing the magic and has been going down hill ever since we got the gem of Rogue One (with Mandalorian being the only exception). I wish Disney could get their act together because they are very hit and miss with this franchise.

 

And the more prequels Disney pumps out the worse it will likely get. Over the next 20+ years we're probably going to see every single gap filled in between the PT and the OT and the OT and the ST and some if not a lot of that retroactive storytelling is going undermine the Skywalker Saga films.

 

At the very least it is going to become overstuffed that's why they have to try to move. Forward or back, bc you can only tell so many stories in this 100 yr time span. That's why I'm at least looking forward to the high Republic and the acolyte to see if something else can occur

 

Disney are gonna make star wars forever. They will probably fill as many gaps as possible.

 

Yeah seems like they might have more wiggle room when working in the High Republic era but Disney and Lucasfilm can't help but attach everything to what we've seen before. Remember this season when Obi-Wan told Leia, "that's not how the Force works" just like Han told Finn in the ST? Yeah we're going to get more of that stuff. Isn't Yoda going to be on the Acolytes? If so, there's going to be a lot of Yoda dialogue that references things that we've already seen and heard. Maybe we'll see somebody tell Yoda that, "size matters not". Ugh.

These shows and movies must have a checklist of references they feel like they need to include. I think we've heard the Wilhelm scream once if not twice in the Obi-Wan show. They really need to retire that. It's very forth wall breaking at this point. And yet, buckle up because the Wilhelm scream is coming to Acolytes and Andor, and Mando season 3 and every other Star Wars project.

 

I haven't heard the Wilhelm scream.
And the show does not break canon.

 

I've heard it a couple of times (unless I'm mistaken?). But surely that's a subtle nod to the Lucas films and George Lucas himself?
EDIT: And repetition of dialogue also. That's been in SW since the OT.

 

Well if this isn't the actual Wilhelm Scream it sounds a hell of a lot like it and that was no accident I'm sure.

 

Finally got around to watching Kenobi episode 4. I thought it was pretty good! Kinda surprised it’s been getting mixed reception.

 

Sorry to report I’m on the critical side of the ep. I want new things happening in the SW universe, not the same things happening over and over. Sequel Trilogy all over again…

I still like the show and liked several things in the episode but I’d rank it lowest so far, and by far, because of the retread aspect.

 

Yes, they scrapped the moat defense because of all the in-filtration.

 

I suppose you could make an argument about how much it "breaks" canon vs "bends it" but regardless, it's definitely not doing us any favors.
Here is what I've noticed so far:

1. In ANH, Leia never even lets on at all that she personally knew Obi-Wan "Ben", much less that they actually formed a bond due to his saving her twice in this show. She only referred to him as having served her father in the clone wars. Well, those wars are long since over and you'd think she would be more excited to see her old friend in her message for help. Just saying. Maybe you can excuse it away somehow, but IMO that's a stretch at best.
2. In ANH when Vader refers to their last interaction, it was very clear that he was referring to what happened in ROTS. Having them interact in this show, especially with Vader having handed Obi-Wan his butt in their duel, just doesn't fit in with canon. I don't see how you can get around the canon breaking in this example.
3. It was a very closely guarded secret that Vader was Anakin. If you read the new Thrawn novels (which are part of Disney's canon, BTW), Vader tried to conceal this fact from Thrawn adamantly. Thrawn was able to figure it out only because he's a freaking genius but even then he never flat out admitted to Vader that he knew, because of Vader's insistence that Anakin was dead. But regardless, it's canon breaking IMO for Reva to know that Anakin is Vader or, at the very least, it's a glaring inconsistency in the story. Maybe this will be resolved by the end of the season but I won't be holding my breath for it.
4. Obi-Wan not knowing that Vader was still alive after ROTS. This might not necessarily be canon breaking but it's danged annoying and just doesn't make any sense. At best, this is another example of poor writing.
5. The Grand Inquisitor being killed. Isn't he supposed to be in Rebels, which takes place after this show in the canon? Maybe I'm wrong but if he's supposed to be the same character, what the heck?

Anyway, these are the most glaring canon issues IMO. They don't even touch on the other examples of poor writing that have bothered me. But regardless, I've rambled on enough. I really wish this show would have been better.

 

They don't seem completely averse to the notion of contradicting the (new) books at times. TLJ contradicted the TFA novelization; TCW season 7 contradicted some things from the Ahsoka novel.

It remains to be seen whether they will allow Rebels to be contradicted.

 

True but with Dave filoni so heavily involved going forward in general and knowing how much he loves Rebels, I can't imagine they wouldn't rectify the situation with the grand Inquisitor

 

On the contrary, to me that one is most certainly not a stretch. I was always under the impression that Leia had met Kenobi in person prior to the events of A New Hope, mostly because of her exclamation later in the movie when she finds out that Ben is on the Death Star. Hardly a stretch IMO.

There is still one more Vader VS Kenobi battle to be seen in this series, for sure. Let's wait and see what happens perhaps?
Yes, their duel on Mustafar retroactively makes the "learner vs master" comment in ANH perfect.
But it's not out of the question that there can be another duel where Anakin/Vader realizes that he is still the learner.

I have not read these novels, but as far as we know, there aren't many people in the Galaxy that know who Darth Vader is.
For all we know, it could be Reva and only Reva outside of Kenobi and Yoda.
Vader trying adamantly to conceal the fact from everyone, doesn't mean that he succeeded 100%.
Perhaps Reva knows that he is Anakin, without him knowing that she knows.
Or maybe he knows but cannot do anything about it.
Especially if she knows him because of what happened at the Jedi Temple during Order 66.

Subjective though. This didn't bother me at all when I watched the 2nd episode.
I only realized that some people were bothered after I read it here.

The Grand Inquisitor is either not dead, or there is a clone, or there is a twin, or it's just a rank that will go to someone else.
So this will be eventually addressed one way or the other.

This is true. Disney LFL doesn't care about breaking minor continuity that overrides comics and novels.
And that's fine. The movies and live action shows should probably be more important to the canon.

 

I hope you're right and to be fair, we still have two more episodes so maybe they will resolve this somehow. And TBH, it's not like I am a big fan of the character or anything, but to kill him off in a show that takes place before Rebels is just insulting to the fandom IMO.

@DarthFixxxer, we'll have to agree to disagree then on most points. I do hope most of my concerns are addressed by the end of the show. I really do. I just don't have a lot of faith that they will, considering how much I feel the writing was so poorly done.

 

The lousy writing is, and what will always be the problem. It's like they're churning out product after product for us to consume because they know we will. I just wish there was some love put into it. I felt that love in R1 and The Mandalorian but the utter dreck that was the BOBF and now this....I dunno. Maybe I'm old.

Sure hope Obi-Wan doesn't get himself into terrible peril in the next episode. Unless of course there's a strong brave woman nearby to save him.

 

What is even the point of a second duel if the outcome is the same as the first duel?

ANH hope established that Kenobi was the master and Anakin the learner. The duel in ROTS confirms this. Then the Kenobi show throws that out of wack for a couple episodes when Vader beats Kenobi but by the finale the two will face off again and Kenobi will win, which will make the master/learner speech makes sense again. But...the duel between Anakin and Kenobi in ROTS was an epic battle, a pivotal battle that changed the fate of both men and the galaxy at large. There's absolutely no way a second duel, one that we already know the outcome of, will be on the same level as the ROTS duel. It's simply not going to have the same emotional impact that the ROTS duel had. AND because it won't it lessens the build up to the Vader/Kenobi showdown in ANH.

It's way more impactful if Vader and Kenobi dueling in ANH is the first time they've come face to face with each other since Kenobi was forced to slice up the man he considered his brother and the chosen one. This next duel isn't going have that impact and because it won't it will hurt the duel scene in ANH.

And where does it end? If Kenobi gets a second season and Vader's it in then there will be two more duels? Ugh.