Mini Series Official "Obi-Wan Kenobi" Series Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

I'm all for good clone stories. There's a lot of interesting stuff you can do with an army of de-humanized soldiers, slaves of the Republic, etc. But in 7 seasons of Clone Wars, Filoni barely scratched the surface with them. And the Bad Batch is really generic stuff.

As is, I think their best use is to characterise and parallel other characters. Like we could have had Cody in the Obi-wan show, living in his isolation and fear himself before reuniting with Kenobi. Could have been nice to see the detached general/commander dynamic become an actual relationship between two outcast men, no rank between them now, both free of the rules of their old institutions. Maybe this time around, it's the general who needs the commander's guidance or protection.

They also coulda been used to good effect in TBOBF. Like instead of the lame Tusken Raiden flashback story, how about instead we get to see Boba's first job for the Empire, from Vader, to locate the remaining clones and kill them all, ending with Boba going full John Wick and disintegrating any trace of family he has left.

 

THIS.

 

Um. I'm a little confused. Obi-Wan *is* a miniseries, and it *is* digging into his pysche.

(unless you mean to say it is a miniseries but could have been a better one, and could have done a better job digging into his psyche. In that case sorry for the confusion).

I think it makes sense why they did what they did - TCW was popular, the Bad Batch were fan favorites (like Ashoka), one of LFL's big focuses ATM seems to be filling out the era of the Empire and the formation of the rebellion and the show seems to be serving, in part, as a setup for Palpatine's return.

I don't even hate it; I actually love both it and TBoBF - it's just not the route I would have went. I think Boba's story would have worked fine (with tweaking) as a film, and the Bad Batch's story could have easily been told in a comic series or even a few video games (think maybe Republic Commando meets Last of Us), so it's not like doing different shows would even mean cutting out their existing narratives.

*Pretending people did'nt trash TCW for years and that the Prequals were'nt as (if not more) "deeply disliked" the the Sequals*

I really don't see how.

Like, I love TBB, but just the era and setting alone relative to a post-Sequal show places it in a box and under constriants that a show set after TROS would not face.

 

Hmm? TCW was never trashed nearly as much as the prequels. Oh the original movie was certainly. And there was a lot of dislike for Ahsoka at the beginning but I was there when TCW was airing all the way through. I saw the discussions as they happened live. But by the time Cad Bane showed up in the S1 finale the consensus was the show was getting better and that only continued with every other season. With some arcs way more liked then others but an upward curve in general was pretty obvious. The only place on the internet that kept up a persistent dislike for much of TCW was on this very forum actually, and alot of that was as much about the show contradicting EU stories then anything else.

And relating back to the topic of the Clones, do you know the most universally well received episode of Season 1 was? Even on this very website? Rookies. Which is why Fives and Echo ended up being expanded on so heavily, they were meant as a one off but the fan response was so positive they became one of the shows core subplots.

Which just goes back to what I was saying, ever since they started to expand on the clones, content with them has been extremely well received in general. There one of the most consistently popular parts of the universe these days.

 

https://www.indiewire.com/2022/06/obi-wan-kenobi-showrunner-interview-1234732404/amp/

IndieWire: They’re such big names: Darth Vader, Obi Wan Kenobi — and the last time they were in live action together was “Revenge of the Sith,” for a fantastic duel on screen. So I have to imagine there’s a lot of pressure going into this series.

Joby Harold: Absolutely, but a lot of excitement for me too just as a fan to get to see them come together, because they’re two such seismic characters in the Star Wars universe. Knowing that one day I would actually get to watch it as an audience member and a fan was part of the thrill of getting to be a very small part of the bigger machine and help getting it made.

So how do you keep things fresh? We’ve seen lightsaber battles. We’ve seen these characters, but how do you make it new this time around?

That’s very much trusting in Deborah Chow and everything that she brought to the show. It’s easy to try to find character through action on the page, but then you hand that off and have faith in the team and it’s such an extraordinary team. You then get to see the fruits of their labor and sit back and go “Okay, yeah.” That’s the part, as a fanboy, that I wanted to see.

To what extent do you actually script the action on the page?

To a pretty extensive extent. You sort of plant the flag in the ground and say, “Here’s what can happen, here’s ways in which character could be articulated,” so it’s not just action for action’s sake. Then the actors find it with Deb, and then it changes on the day through the blocking, and then you choreograph the whole thing, and they rehearse for a very long time, as you know, to get it right. So I would say it’s phase one, the writing part.

In Episode 4, the lightsaber sequence with Obi-Wan in the dark. Again we’ve seen so many lightsaber sequences, but that one felt new and fresh.

In the dark, when he’s rescuing Leia from the stormtroopers? That’s on the page. That’s me writing “in the dark,” because I feel like I haven’t seen it, in that iteration that I hadn’t seen it. It’s a pretty important moment, so it should have its own visual splendor. But again, Deborah takes that and runs with it and covers it the way she covers it. One part of a bigger machine.

This week we saw Obi-Wan start to get his powers back. It seems like a steady increase in him regaining his strength and also his confidence.

Absolutely right. It’s a six-chapter story. We’re getting to the point now where he’s starting to need to find that part of himself again, where he hasn’t had to explore it for so long. Hopefully character is pushing that decision and those choices in an interesting way, because of the pieces on the board and because of Leia. Getting to see it and slow it down so each part of that is important and each bit of it feels like a moment — each time he has to use the Force, each time he has to stand tall, each time he holds the lightsaber — hopefully it’s reinforcing character and his journey from the man we met at the beginning of the show, in his cave, to man that he will one day become.

Before the premiere, Deborah said that the prequels were a big inspiration, and there’s also all this connective tissue from other shows and movies. At what point did you feel like this is its own thing entirely?

You have to think of it as its own thing entirely, whilst also being aware of all the different places you can and can’t go. And then you just try and do the best you can, try and tell the best story you can within the limitations that exist around that. It’s tricky, and it’s complicated. You come into inheriting a bunch of limitations because of preexisting stuff and because of where we are canon-wise.

What were some of the top priorities from a narrative standpoint?

For me personally, it was getting to really give Ewan the opportunities to sit in this character again and get under the skin of the character so that the audience could really enjoy his performance. He’s such a gifted actor, and it’s such an iconic role and he’d done so much with it — but I felt like there was still room for him to do so much more. So it was very much [a consideration] as I was writing: “Where can we give him character moments to sit with him?” There’s a fantastic moment in the fourth episode which is all Deborah Chow, which is her finding that moment where he and Leia hold hands. It’s such a lovely moment, and it’s so sweet, and it’s easy for me to just write that — but to feel the soul of it is again, that’s the extent of this creative team and how great they are.

Truly! Where did the decision come from for young Leia to be such a big part of the show? I haven’t recovered from the Luke fake out in the trailer.

[laughs] Yeah, that is a serious fake out. They hid the football on that and rightly so, that made it quite a fun thing to watch. Leia was was always a part of the conversation, I believe right from the beginning. What would be important enough to have Obi-Wan leave Luke? I couldn’t think of anything beyond her. I think that conversation had begun a long time ago, and rightly so because she and Luke have equal importance within the bigger conversation. Why not bring that conversation right up front into this show and challenge Obi-Wan with that reality? She’s important. She’s as important, so that makes it quite dramatic and interesting as a call to action.

In Episode 4, we have the interrogation scene with her and Reva, which is harrowing, but it also calls to mind the scene where she’s being interrogated in “A New Hope.” What’s the connection between those two scenes and in general with the young Leia we see now and the adult Leia we’ll catch up with in “A New Hope”?

It’s very much to do with casting and trying to find somebody who captured the spirit of Carrie Fisher, and credit to Deb and casting for finding her. She’s so extraordinary and it’s so lovely to see her sit in those moments and echo everything that’s gonna come afterwards — hopefully not deliberately so too often. You want to try to not make it feel like you’re servicing a later moment. But those comparisons will exist because what Carrie Fisher did with the role was so iconic, and Leia had such a great life in all movies that followed. There are definitely going to be those moments where you’re covering similar territory.

Reva is such an extraordinary villain. How did you flesh her out and find that sweet spot?

Reva’s a character that had existed when I came onto the project, and she seemed so interesting because she was offering something different and a new perspective. Again, I worked with Deborah a lot on that and finding who she could be in part of Obi-Wan’s journey, where she could push him. What kind of an antagonist to push into places where he wouldn’t otherwise go? Deb had strong instincts there, so I just tried to help facilitate that character as she developed into what Moses did with her, which I think is quite extraordinary.

Was there anything you wanted to actively avoid with the series?

It going too quickly, and being too sort of whiz-bang-pew-pew-pew right from the beginning. Hopefully in the final reading [it] will feel like it has a patience to it, which is consistent with the journey that Obi-Wan is going on spiritually from beginning to end, in between prequels and the original trilogy. That was my hope, to make sure that happened.

And speaking of his spiritual journey, how does Obi-Wan’s relationship with Qui-Gon factor in? It sounds like he still hasn’t been able to reach him but what does he want from that connection?

In the beginning of the show, I just wanted to be able to see him reaching out. I just felt like if he was reaching out into the ether in those moments, it would help punctuate how alone he felt. That was really the priority, just to feel Obi-Wan’s isolation.

There’s been some buzz about a possible Season 2. Is there a dream you would have for that if you get to return to this character again?

I can’t really speak to that, so unfortunately I won’t beyond saying it’s been a real thrill to to work with this character, this universe, for this experience. It has been opportunity of a lifetime, and I’ve cherished it.

There has been some talk about things within the series so far that don’t fit totally into existing Star Wars canon.

There is a plan for all of that. It’s such a big creative team making these shows that everyone’s very, very aware of canon and the fan base and the importance of making sure everything lines up, so it’s definitely something that was on the front of our minds always.

The Disney+ Star Wars series love to take a character and put them accidentally in charge of a kid. That’s “The Mandalorian,” that is now what’s happening with Obi-Wan. It also goes back to “Clone Wars,” to Obi-Wan and Anakin’s relationship.

You can look at Obi-Wan and Luke and you can look at Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan and you can look at two-handers always. It’s always so interesting, and conceptually fascinating because you’re putting two forces together and that’s where the fun happens. That’s where the fun begins. The notion of exploring that here with two legacy characters, which has a different potency, was a part of things when I came on that always seemed very compelling to me.

We spoke a lot about Obi-Wan’s headspace, but what headspace Anakin in right now? Is he even Anakin anymore?

That’s a good question that I’m not going to answer. The degree of what’s going on under the helmet I leave rightfully to the viewer. That’s part of the mystery of that character is that you can’t see, so you lean into what you bring to it. But certainly at this stage of the timeline to me, nobody was the finished article. The people that we meet in “A New Hope” feel like they’ve come to fruition a little bit more. But at this stage, it still felt like there was some story to tell with these characters.

Tala has been such an excellent addition also — how was coming up with that character, working with her and distinguishing this resistance from other iterations?

Deb was very clear that we didn’t want this to feel like it was a resistance,; it’s not the resistance, it’s not the beginning of that, but it is hope. And Star Wars fundamentally, these are stories of hope and you have to be very careful and judicious to where you introduce that concept into the storytelling. We wanted to introduce it in a careful way, but these aren’t soldiers, they’re not freedom fighters, as much as they are people doing the best they can.

Tala is hopefully an opportunity for a great actor to take the ball and run with it. What Indira did was so interesting because she really tried to find the root of the backstory of that character, and… finding what compelled her was really important. She’s such a terrific actor, and hopefully what she contributes is not only to the wider galaxy, but is very specific to Obi-Wan’s story and where he needs to go spiritually and physically in order to become the man he needs to become. He needs a little help along the way. Finding the right actor to bring that to life is the key part of the puzzle — as it was with Leia. And it is with Ewan — as it is with everybody in the cast, there is a variety of really talented people.

Is there anything you can say about the final two episodes?

I think you can expect the fifth one to be called “Episode 5” and the sixth one to be “Episode 6.” Those are the two things I think I can say.

 

Bad Batch is a thing specifically because George wanted it made, that was said in the panel at Celebration. Plus given how busy he is with live action, Filoni wouldn't have time to supervise an animated series, and he'd have to if the OT3 were involved.

 

I never said it was trashed as much as the Prequals, but for a good long time the same Fandom Menace crowd who now unironically praise it and Filoni *hated* both of them with a passion. He was essentially the OG RJ to Lucas's OG Kennedy.

I guess I imagined it all then, becuase I was their as well. Good to know, becuase that means I've imagined the hate agianst the Prequals and the Sequals as well

What does that have to do with anything I said?

I never denied that.

I just think maybe we don't need a *two* new shows based around clones when we've already had a 7 season long one, and the Imperial Era is already oversaturated with stuff and that's a bit silly when there's eras that are totally untouched and don't have the same limitations that it does.

And, like I said to @SmokeMonster4815162342, not having a Bad Batch or Boba Fett show does'nt even mean you can't tell their story. You could have still done it just fine in other mediums, I just personally think that, in terms of both creativity, narrative potential and personal taste, their were better options for shows.

Indira Varma really is a great actress, IMO; I really don't have any trouble buying her a certain way due to a certain character that she happens to play - like, she's equally belivable to me as a selfless, compassionate hero in Kenobi as she is as a ruthless villain in GoT or a posh, detached, elitist snob in Dragon Age: Inquistion.

 

Clone Wars i think benefited from being under the radar. While there was an audience for Clone Wars, The Show did not become half as popular until Disney canceled it and said the show was canon to future material. Before that it was just that kids show on cartoon network that someone would occasionally say hey you should check it out.

 

That it was a "kids show* on cartoon network" is one of the biggest "criticisms" I remember it's detactors throwing around during it's run.

And it was really funny watching how fast people reversed course after it cancelled and retconned away all the trashing so they could pretend they all loved it the whole time and Filoni was always beloved (almost as funny as seeing some of those same people coming full circle to trash Filoni anew over BoBF).

*lol.

 

That was awesome when Ellaria Sand slapped that stormtrooper and he totally got discombobulated.

 

I really don't think that's true. I remember a LOT of people being very upset that Disney cancelled The Clone Wars. It already had a massive following, and I remember having conversations with a lot of people about how that show might even be better than the 6 movies, story wise. Add to that all the kids that grew up in the meantime, and in 2022 you have Clone Wars reaching top 3 Star Wars content in literally all the polls and rankings I have seen. It's a show that is VERY popular and has been popular enough since it's 3rd or 4th season I would say. People were sleeping on it, but they eventually had to realize how great it is.

 

Rewatched the episode again and another thing I noticed is when the airspeeders come to rescue Obi Wan, Leia and Tala reminded me of when Finn and Poe stole a TIE Fighter after Finn rescued Poe.

 

I’ll admit that I didn’t get into TCW until just before the 4th season aired. I saw the movie in theaters, because it was something SW in theaters, and though it was decent but just for kids. Years later I’m in a deep SW mood so I decided to buy the first season on DVD and ended up watching most of it in one night! I got up the next day, finished season 1 and then headed back to the store to get season 2 and 3 on DVD. I got to watch season 4 and 5 as they aired. Then of course they canceled it and I was mad like everyone else. Those were some good times as a SW fan!

 

Is there a reason episode guides are not being put up on starwars.com??

 

To convince people to get Disney +

here is a random question. Why wasn’t Obi Wan in his hut? He definitely had it, but it seemed like his entire home was a cave.

 

Two possibilities;

• He moves between the hut and the cave for whatever reason (seasonally or because of Sand People migrations, maybe).
• They're retconing the date when he got the hut and he'll gain it at the end of this show; the earliest we see him have it is in the Marvel comics run, and the only dates attached to the stories in question (as best I know) comes from a single peice of secondary source material.

Of the two the latter is probobly more likely at this point, IMO; Obi-Wan's demeanor in the comic stories in question and the fact that has and can use his lightsaber just fine in them only really make sense if said stories are set *post* Kenobi rather then pre-the show, and in them he's drawn more like a hybrid of Guiness and McGregor then just looking like McGregor.

 

I don’t care what some people say and that this show has some flaws. I totally love it. Just keep giving me Kenobi and I’ll be happy. And I don’t love all Star Wars; I thought the sequel trilogy was one huge mistake, but that’s for another thread. I’m not one to just automatically enjoy everything they throw at us but I truly think they are trying to give us a great series with Kenobi, despite its flaws. People are so freaking critical these days. Stuff used to be cheesy all the time and people loved it. For example, I recently watched a couple Indiana Jones movies with my son and they are so cheesy yet we still love them. They are so over-the-top ridiculous but their flaws are just overlooked. This show is no different. Just embrace the good stuff! This is great entertainment!

 

Disney knows this, and that's the problem.

 

Sounds more like a You problem.

 

I think one has to separate the noise from genuine critique. In terms of rankings, I'd put the Obi-Wan Kenobi show way above the ST and TBOBF, but far below The Mandalorian, Rogue One and Solo. And whilst I'm (on the whole) positive towards the show, there's a reason why (IMO) the show is kind of mid-table. And I don't think the issues/flaws with the show are because of the writing, directing, acting per se, but rather it's reflective of a mid-table budget, and the constraints in bringing a big Star Wars story to the screen with less money. Purportedly, Obi-Wan Kenobi had half the budget of Mando season 2 (and it shows IMO). If that's true its absolutely crazy... Imagine what this show would be like if it had the budget of TROS or Rogue One. Not only would the production values be significantly better, but I think it would have afforded them the opportunity to create a much tighter story.

 

I think budget is the least of the show's issues.

 

I don't think that is true though. The rumoured number for this show has been up to $25 million per episode, which is far more than The Mandalorian got in season 1 or 2. Though season 2 had more money available per episode than season 1, due to not needing to set up the entire production.

Besides, making a movie is still vastly different from making a tv-show. It's not like the difference between the two goes entirely into production-value.

 

This is pretty crude (and ignore the subtitles) but it does show how much more punch this show could have had if they’d dared to use some of the orginal themes:

 

Building off of the article @Sarge shared about why Rogue One is the most authentic war movie of the franchise, here's an article about how the galaxy under the Empire also has a ****** veteran's administration (exposed by clones begging on the streets):

https://taskandpurpose.com/entertainment/star-wars-obi-wan-kenobi-homeless-clone-trooper/