PT What happens if Yoda wins?

If Mace Windu wins, then most of the damage is prevented, because there isn't an emergency gathering of the Senate or any declarations by Palpatine. And of course there isn't an Order 66. But after everything happens, Order 66 is done, the Empire is now the ruling authority, and the Clones will hunt down any Jedi that appears.

Yoda wins his duel with Palpatine. The head of the snake is cut off. Anakin dies on Mustafar (I'm assuming) without medical help. What can be done? Who heads the Empire? Tarkin is at the end of ROTS, so maybe him? Can the kill order for the Clones be dealt with? Can the Jedi name be saved?

 

With Sidious defeated, there will be no Empire. I'm just going to quote myself here from an old thread. (The "them" refers to all the senators)

 

I don't know about that

Would Palpatine have even set up any individuals in a line of succession? I somehow doubt that, considering he intended to rule forever, not to mention the fact that the Empire was literally a few hours old at that point

Perhaps someone like Mas Amedda (or as OP mentioned, Tarkin) could've taken over as emperor

But frankly, I think the Empire being a thing was inevitable at that point. Yoda's emphasis to Obi-Wan is "Destroy the Sith, we must." I don't think he ever considered a possibility of stopping the tyranny of the Empire at that point. The political/ideological battle was already lost. No matter what, Palpatine had won by that point. Yoda was seizing what he saw as the absolute last chance to at least stop the Sith at that point. If he had managed to kill Sidious? I guess the "go into hiding and hope the galaxy can someday restore democracy" thing happens anyway

I really don't see the sort of things @lord_sidious_ suggests happening. Earlier that same day, 99% of the Senate cheered on the declaration of an Empire. Just killing Palpatine isn't going to destroy it and restore the Republic overnight. There'd still be a Galactic Civil War - the only difference is no Vader, and no Palpatine sitting at the top

Of course, the other catch here is Exegol - I haven't read the comics closely, but as I understand, Palpatine had already set up at least a number of his operations on Exegol. I don't think the Final Order was ready (he preferred funneling all the kyber into the Death Star), and as far as I know, it's not clear yet as to whether he'd have a suitable body to jump into. Even decades later in canon, he didn't really have suitable bodies he could use, and with Vader dead and his children otherwise unknown, he would probably have a very hard time keeping his survival secret and searching for a suitably powerful Force-sensitive host body

 

@lord_sidious_
As dire as things were I don't think Yoda or Obi-Wan would get directly involved with the Senate. Also the Senate would be crawling with Clone Troopers. The most I could see them do is get in touch with someone like Bail or Mon Mothma. But the Jedi aren't going to take over until the government does what they want.

@Seagoat
Are things like the Death Star still going to proceed? That's like a weapon of conquest and I feel it would need an undisputed Emperor to sign off on it. Without Palpatine and Vader it would be much harder to repress a Jedi resurgence as well. And a lot of Dark Side knowledge would just be lost. Though part of your post is talking about Palpatine and Exegol. Are the comics alluding to him having this ability to stay alive by the time of Episode 3? I'm not really familiar.

I'm also curious now of what will happen to Luke and Leia. The danger of being discovered by Palpatine and Vader isn't there anymore. So would they still put them in hiding?

 

Perhaps if Palpatine was killed Tarkin would be able to rally the military to stage a coup and declare himself Emperor

 

The way I see it, there can't be a sith empire with no sith to rule it. The senators are just fickle followers, they'll follow the path of least resistance and support whoever seems more powerful.

Do you think Yoda would allow the empire to happen? What was the point of risking his life to duel Sidious then?

 

Someone else would've been the emperor. The Republic was effectively dead. They were in an Empire now, Sith or no Sith.

What I don't know, however, is if Yoda and Obi-Wan would still go into hiding. My bet is likely not as with the Sith gone, the Jedi wouldn't be in such a risk.

 

This is a very interesting question. It'd been a brief enough period of time that if Yoda came forward with proof of Palpatine's evil that a lot could potentially be walked back. Yet, there are some serious problems that remain. It sure seems like the senate is open to fascism so someone else could soon take advantage even if it reverted back to being a Republic. You also have the issue of the clones. They just massacred the Jedi Knights! How will that be handled? Do they go to jail? Will they listen to someone who isn't Palpatine at this point?

Basically, I think if Palps is killed the Empire as we know it doesn't exist immediately, but there are so many deep problems in the Republic that it's likely there'd be a backslide into fascism at some point even if Yoda's revelations temporarily revert the Empire back to the Republic. Plus, Palpatine clearly had his tendrils deep into various corporations and other money interests. Who will they now back?

 

There is a mess that likely goes on for at least a few years with the Empire. The Ruling Council and Tarkin try to make the new Empire survive.
Sidious clings to life in a clone body on Exegol, but does not have the fleet ready at all by 19 BBY. He either plays the long haul, or they find him and kill him fully.
Basically, the new Empire can't survive long without Sith.

 

This sort of connects with my big criticism of Star Wars, which isn’t a mistake but a disagreement with George Lucas’ historical idealism.

The main plot of the movies involves the war to restore a Republic which we’ve seen crumble into fascism due to its class character. So at the end of the Return of the Jedi the circle is competed, and The Phantom Menace can happen all over again. The analogy for the American Republic, with all its horrifying oppression and fascist tendencies, is treated as the final ideal society

 

- There would have been a power struggle and infighting,
- Due to this, the empire would collapse in on itself.
- The Jedi would temporarily take control of the senate so there could be a smooth transition back into a Republic
- Palpatine's 1 million clones would come and annihilate the Jedi
- Yoda would have a "surprise Dawg" moment, when he went to Kamino in AOTC, he had clones made of himself
- There would be a huge duel between the million clones of Palps and the 10 Yoda clones, over half of PT fans expects Palps to win because he's apparently god status in fandom
- Yoda will win, Fans will argue this was all part of Palps plan and wanted to lose so he can create a super empire,
the end

 

Whatever happens, even if the Empire somehow survives, without the Sith leading it there would be much less threat to the Jedi and a much more reasonable prospect that the idealists like Mothma and Organa could organize a peaceful return to Democracy. They may wait to see exactly how the Senate reacts, but I'd expect Yoda and Obi-Wan would still rather leave Coruscant, gather survivors and begin the process of rebuilding off in some place where they won't be threatened with a final Fait accompli.

 

Ok maybe it's just me being chicken, but if I were in Tarkin's or the senators' shoes and Sidious just got killed, I wouldn't dare try going against Yoda.

I'm not sure if that's even his actual view, I think democracy=good is just an assumption we're supposed to make for the purpose of this space fairy tale. It's set up that way since the opening crawl of the first movie, kind of like how the answer to a physics question often begins with a bunch of assumptions to establish the limitations of the simplified model. Personally, this hasn't bothered me.

 

Considering A New Hope makes it painfully clear how the Empire is pure evil, I think it's safe to say Lucas doesn't like the idea of totalitarian regimes.

And democracy=good is assumed as, presumably, none of us want to live under a dictatorship where our every action is closely monitored, and any deviation from the rules set by the Party results in us being nabbed by suited men and hauled away to be tortured.

 

I believe there is a Churchill quote that says something to the effect of "Democracy is the worst form of government, except all the others."
Just because Democracy is flawed, doesn't mean that it isn't the best we have available.

One on one sure, but Yoda isn't all powerful any more than Palpatine is. That is why he went into exile in the first place. Maybe he can handle a hundred, or even a thousand regular troopers but he can't protect everyone at once at sooner or later he would be taxed to his limit.

I think had Palpatine been defeated he would have been bolder than he is in our timeline, keep in mind he didn't even try to rebuild the Order for over 20 years while Palpatine reigned. With the Sith extinct Yoda may feel more comfortable starting to rebuild sooner without a Sith threat but setting up camp smack dab in the heart of the institution that just tried to wipe you out, even absent Sith influence, would be pretty dumb.

I don't think anyone can know what would happen next had Sidious fallen, it may have taken years for the Empire or Republic to recover. But until then caution would pay off for the Jedi.

 

There’s also a Churchill quote about Indians breeding like rabbits.

that quote about democracy is the exact philosophy I’m critiquing. It’s a fascist sentiment from a man who admired Hitler and Mussolini

 

I think there's no structure of class character developed to be what will become a potentially new republic.

The simple fact of life is this: Any political perception, all by itself, can become a fascist perspective. Normal humans, on their own, seek power, seek to fill their own ego, seek to impose that on others.

 

Civil War. Palpatine from prison would influence delegates and political allies to stir things up, claiming “see The Jedi really were trying to take over.” Yoda and Jedi Council would take authority over The Senate to as Mace said “secure a peaceful transition,” but the result would be to confirm Palpatine’s claims the Jedi are usurpers of democracy and power hungry. The Republic would tear in two, those loyal to the Peacekeepers (Jedi) and those loyal to Palpatine and his political claims that democracy is in peril.

 

I imagine in that scenario the whole form of interplanetary government would be at serious risk of collapse. Presumably an Empire would still survive, albeit one with far less star systems and support than it would otherwise have.

Obi Wan and Yoda presumably would have trained a new generation of Jedi, along with the survivors of Order 66.

Lol how is that quote a “fascist sentiment”? If anything it’s the opposite.

 

Churchill was a racist, that much is clear.

But Churchill admiring Hitler and Mussolini? Er, I...don't think he did. Especially when one of them started bombing the absolute bantha out of London and other towns.

"We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the streets, we shall never surrender!" doesn't scream admiration, methinks. xD

 

No OT

 

Palpatine actually answers this question for us: "You will not stop me, Darth Vader will become more powerful than either of us". Palpatine had confidence that the Sith legacy would live on...Both duels are ongoing at the same time...the death of Palpatine would have caused a massive shock in the Force...its not clear how that would have changed things on Mustafar. Anakin realizing Palpatine is gone...? Would he have left? Become more focused and killed Obiwan? Joined Obiwan!? But even if things played out the same way on Mustafar, I don't believe Anakin could die because he was the chosen one. So Anakin, I guess most realistically, takes control of the Empire. Obiwan/Yoda still aren't enough to topple it without Palpatine.

 

All the souls of dead Sith Lords contained in Darth Sidious plus the souls of Darth Sidious transfer to Yoda’s body and Yoda becomes the Sith Master.

That’s why Sidious says Darth Vader will be stronger than either of us. He saying even if you kill me Yoda, you won’t be Sith Master for long. Darth Vader is stronger.

The alternate outcome is Darth Sidious and the souls of the dead Sith Lords returns to Exogol like a Pac-Man ghost. But I don’t think that is setup until after the prequels.

 

Debatable and that's dumb.

 

I agree with Civil War. As a matter of fact, The Clone War just starts right back up again. Vader still kills the Separatist leadership but the CIS had plenty of adamant believers. Those CIS patriots would take up arms and continue the fight against the Republic and its Clone Army, weakened by the absence of the Jedi who still are virtually wiped out by Order 66. The Republic would not become The Empire but would still be a strong centralized government with freedoms strictly curtailed in the name of Galactic Security. And the void in the command structure of the GAR would enable ruthless soldiers such as Tarkin to rise to higher ranks and commit atrocities under the guise of striving for peace, and potentially position themselves to stage a Coup or carve out slices of the Republic to rule by themselves.