Ahsoka Ahsoka Episode 1.04 - Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

I wonder how people would feel if there's a window in the WBW where you can actually see the What if? alt realities; sort of like what you get in the Marvel show.

 

Sounds good to me

 

Since the PT showed us ring-shaped hyperdrives for Jedi starfighters, I'm assuming the ring is the shape that makes for the most efficient hyperdrive. It would also be reasonable to assume that shape is impractical for the average working ship, and probably vulnerable to combat damage, so it's not in widespread use. For an intergalactic jump where they need every bit of power they can get, they're going all in on the fastest possible hyperspace speed, and all other considerations are minimized or ignored. The end result is a ring ship. That's what my headcanon is, anyway.

 

This show by far captures what I like about SW more than I think anything since Disney took over (final TCW arc is maybe is an exception). Someone else said it earlier, but it's wild to see a SW show that seems to actually really be interested in telling a story? There's high-stakes, suspenseful actual drama that is formed by character relationships and motivations in a way most new SW media has been totally incompetent at even when it does try. A well-rounded ensemble of heroes and villains where everyone feels important. The lightsabers duels are actually used as a vehicle for character development, and the show actually embraces using them.

Sabine's choice felt surprising and frustrating but also totally understandable and all the drama leading up to it felt consistent and intentional. Baylan(sp?) is interesting enough and I don't even feel like we need a ton of backstory on him, but I'm sure we'll get some.

And frankly, I think the entire show, including this episode, has had some pretty glaring flaws. But I can't help but love it anyway lol

I also feel like Episode 3/4 would work much better as one long combined episode. And I honestly feel like none of it would be that great tbh unless you knew TCW/Rebels. Which isn't a problem for me since I've seen and like those shows and I think the storytelling over these three shows has really gotten at what's fun to me about SW. I love seeing Ahsoka as a fully realized jedi in a way we never got to really with Luke (or Leia)

Yes!! This is definitely a part of it for me.

 

I don't think that's your headcanon only, I think it is what can be most logically deduced from all the information we have.

The circular shape of the ring makes perfect sense honestly, and it has to do with symmetry conditions. It is the most common situation found in any electromagnetic study, whether we are talking about induction, magnetic field strength, and other contexts. The power surge was visually extremely satisfying. And I think it was mentioned in this and the previous episode that they needed many SSD hyperdrives connected together, for that kind of power and acceleration.

On a different note, I was thinking that the title of this episode (Fallen Jedi) probably refers both to Baylan Skoll and Anakin Skywalker. And the fact that it doesn't include "The" in its title makes it more probably that it is supposed to be in the plural tense. It could technically refer to Sabine Wren as well, but I don't think she would be classified as a Jedi yet. Especially since Ahsoka said that she just wants Sabine to be herself, whatever that means. And Ahsoka is a Jedi, but certainly not fallen.

 

I'm a bit late to the party because I had a busy couple of days, but wow what an episode! There were some excellent lightsaber duels in this. Ahsoka's duel with the Morgan in Mando instantly became one of my favourite duels due to the atmosphere and how it dug deeper into samurai roots than even the original films did. These duels continued that trend. I wish I knew more technical details about samurai martial arts so I could geek out more, but I recognized quite a few stances and moves from Kurosawa movies and images from books. Great stuff!

Marrok's demise makes me wonder if he was ever an Inquisitor or if he was some kind of magick projection using old Inquisitor armour as a shell. Maybe that was Eight Borther's armour, but not Eight Brother himself.

I'm continuing to like Baylan's characterization, and he does seem to maintain some semblence of honour even though he has gone over to the bad side. It makes me wonder if he even uses the dark side. Have we seen him use an explicitly dark side Force power? Either way, it bodes well for a nuanced portrayal of Thrawn.

And, oh that cliff hanger! It felt like Anakin's role would be larger than just a quick cameo. I wouldn't be surprised if he is a major part of next episode. Anakin is my favourite character in Star Wars and his relationship with Ahsoka has become my favourite Master-Apprentice pairing, so I can't wait for next week.

I thought the de-aging looked a bit fake though. Hopefully, it will look better in the next episode, but as it stands Luke in The Book of Boba Fett looked more realistic (which is nuts considering that Hayden Christensen is right there playing him unlike Mark Hamill and Luke).

 

Baylan is what I envisioned a Jedi would look like in the lead up to TPM. Wish there was more of him, and that he was a good guy.
The cameo at the end gave me Picard Season 3 vibes - lots of fan service and nostalgia triggers. I expect more of it. Which I'm ok with to an extent (I really liked Picard S3).
We are really fortunate to have Rosario playing Ahsoka. I can think of no better portrayal.
Great score by Kevin Kiner.
Strong episode.

 

It’d be sick if we get a scene through WBW where we see Baylan before Order 66 wearing the traditional Jedi robes, and see how he turned to the dark side

 

'To defeat your enemy, you need to them' - might help teach Ahsoka a lot.

 

I wonder if this will be akin to a Christmas Story Star Wars style. Anakin is basically the Jacob Marley, ghosts of christmas past, present and future all in one. Also I hope he tells Ahsoka to say "hello to his son for him".

 

So did Ahsoka just fall through the cracks off a cliff into the water into a portal to the world between worlds that the bad guys never knew was there the whole time? They really should have scouted the location better.

 

Could be either, but only sometimes when you listen.

 

Or she didn’t physically enter anything, and her spirit is in the WBW…

 

Or she was pulled through like when Ezra saved her from Vader... there's a couple of ways it could go and I'm up for seeing how it plays out. I sense this is working up to the point where we see a force ghost, or similar, manifest and interact in the 'real world'. Maybe that will be Ahsoka the White or perhaps Anakin? Is Dave going to show us that Anakin is still 'The Chosen One' and is still bringing balance? Is there a much larger story at play?

 

So let’s get into the World Beyond Worlds stuff a little more here.

1) Thrawn was working with Palpatine to try to get Ezra to open an ancient Jedi portal into it within Rebels so Thrawn is likely aware of its potential on some level.

2) Ezra and Ahsoka have both travelled within it before.

These are the two main points I think are most relevant to what is looking like a very WBW specific episode ahead.


Key questions I have include:


1) Why does Filoni want to bring this idea to the mainstream out of the blue in a manner following what will appear to most casuals as nothing more than a death dream or what the force ghost afterlife looks like?

2) Is there any other purpose to her being here and talking to Anakin beyond eventually waking up and realizing she’s going to die if she doesn’t snap out of this?

3) We have seen travel before within this world. Will they use the next episode as a means for Ahsoka to either determine where the villains have travelled to or even go farther than that and actually have her exit through a portal ring where she is physically travels there? If it’s the latter how can they really explain that to casuals watching who don’t even know what the WBW is?

4) Having Anakin as her spiritual guide her obviously works for character development, resolving unresolved issues (hopefully) and nostalgia/fan service but does he serve some other purpose beyond that? If so, what?

5) Will we sense Palpatine trying to enter the WBW in any ways? Either as audio or visuals?

6) Ezra foresaw a favorable endgame when he decided to do this jump. Will we see any of him within the WBW due to his connection to it?

7) Ahsoka hasn’t done anything overtly terrible that I can think of off hand that connects into the present dilemma the heroes are in. Typically, in death dream style concepts like this the person dying has to come to terms with mistakes from their past in some profound way but I’m not convinced that going this way with Ahsoka will have significant emotional payoff. What is her primary regret? That she left Anakin? That she didn’t stop him before? I guess they could try to get into some of that but what lesson is going to be learned from such an epiphany? That Anakin was likely to turn regardless and free her from some of her unresolved guilt? Admittedly, that could be cool to explore but how does that tie into the present story? How would something like that transition to what is happening right now? What lesson would be extracted that would be both profound enough and relevant enough to the events of the present to justify all of this effort to explore over the course of an entire episode in season that will only have 3 more episodes remaining after it?

8) This ties back to my first point but the WBW is an important aspect of canon within Star Wars with a loads of ramifications for time travel, alternate realities and more. How will they avoid the feeling that they’ve opened up a Pandora’s box within Star Wars if they treat it in any way beyond a death dream life lesson she needs to learn before waking up? Making this feel like a death dream life lesson that she needs to wake up from is conventional enough for most casuals to grasp. Some will probably even form their own head canons that this place could be where force ghosts live but if they actually get into portals and she travels places or goes back in time… how will these concepts be perceived by casuals and critics who are less familiar with these concepts being explored in Filoni works previously?

9) Can the internet withstand the amount of click bait content regarding a multiverse where the most divisive aspects of Star Wars can now be undone immediately following any WBW episode where she actually does change the past or travel through time and space?

 

Is this set before or after Ahsoka has met Luke in BOBF?
If so wouldn't she have already spoken to Luke about Anakin/Vaders Redemption?
Or have I completely missed something here?

 

I think she would be more wary of seeing Anakin if she hadn't already spoken to Luke about his redemption. Last time they met, he did try to kill her after all.

 

@Ender_and_Bean...
To your points generally... I think the 'Mortis arc' is probably one of the most interesting elements of TCWC, and it feeds directly into some of Lucas' ideas on the living and cosmic force... how force ghosts tie into that and how Anakin (specifically) as the Chosen Ones fits into it. I don't think TWBW will be used for time travel per se, but it may be used to solidify our notion of 'destiny' and 'free will', and how Anakin needed to fall to the darkside (and be redeemed) to bring balance. I believe this is where it's all heading, and is probably the biggest philosophical/conceptual question that hangs over Star Wars to date, post PT. As such, if this is where it's going, I'm all ears/eyes...

 

It seems to be taken for granted around here that Ahsoka having talked to Luke implies that she knows about Anakin's redemption. I don't think that's a lock.

They are effectively strangers. Neither one knows whether the other is even aware that Anakin spent half his life as a Sith Lord.

We know Ahsoka was unwilling to share that revelation with anyone. Not even her closest friend Rex.

Luke is in a similar boat. We know that in Disney canon, Anakin's fall to the dark side was a closely guarded secret outside the Skywalker family. After all, Leia was in politics and public knowledge that she was a direct descendant of a Sith Lord would be disastrous for her approval ratings. He's not going to air the family dirty laundry to this aloof Togruta Jedi that popped out of nowhere.

How would that conversation even start?

 

What if the portal to enter the WBW was open because of the energy surge happening on the edge of the cliff?
We have already seen previously that it's not that simple to enter the WBW.

To me it seems that Ahsoka is pretty much concurrent with the events in Mando 3, but it doesn't really make a difference. In TBOBF it seemed that Ahsoka has met with Luke before, and quite possibly on multiple occasions. And she almost certainly has talked with him about Anakin's redemption. Why would she not know about it during the events that we are watching now?

I take it for granted that she knows about Anakin's redemption. I mean.... what's the problem with her knowing? The real question is why would they NOT have talked about? They have probably talked about everything and anything that has to do with the Jedi and the Jedi Order and how it fell.

"Hi, I am Luke Skywalker"
"Oh hi, I was your dad's apprentice"
"Oh cool, yeah he went through a midlife crisis but now he's cool"

 

You know what that’s a good point. I’m still a little iffy on the time jump between Mando S2 finale and Ahsoka and Luke’s appearance in Boba Fett

 

Agreed but its a glaring issue with the story telling if it isn't at least mentioned - I trust filoni will have it all tie in somehow but time will tell......

I also know it's difficult to fuse the animated shows (mainly Ahsoka's character) in with the live action films etc.

 

“Sometimes we have to do whats right, Regardless of our personal feelings”…. So true, so powerful. And a very fitting quote from Ahsoka, granted we see Anakin in this ep.

Also I was getting worried for Huyang when that droid had his back against the ship.

“Mom, how come I have to do what I’m told and you don’t?”… then Chopper begins garbling. I can only guess he’s saying something like “Good point, kid!”

“Anakin spoke highly of you”… “Interesting. He never mentioned you.” Oof. Gonna need some Alocane for that one Baylan.

I know I have said this before but Baylan gives me a MAJOR Dooku vibes. And its not just because of his wispy white hair.

Baylan’s pitch to Sabine was so tense. This whole episode was tense.

I gotta be honest, I was surprised Sabine handed over the map. She must be feeling incredibly broken and desperate inside. Its almost as if she deep down inside knows that giving them the map isn’t right.

Also I love Cap’n Carson. He is a true ride-or-die. He’s got that “the Empire is not going to make a comeback in the galaxy as long as I draw breath” kind of attitude. I love it.

Also, is it safe to say that this decision by Sabine is going to irretrievably break the trust between her and Ahsoka? I just have a hard time seeing Ahsoka ever wanting to train her again after this. Not trying to stomp on Sabine, but this choice she made was out of selfishness. A choice that I highly doubt Ezra would approve of.

Gosh, this episode was fantastic. One of the best episodes released under Star Wars streaming to date.

 

I sure hope not...It would be a trend for Ahsoka to be snatched back by someone into another dimension every time she was about to die.
And if Anakin pulled her through wouldn't he have been standing there next to her right when she came to as Ezra was? This time she was alone, faintly heard Anakin's voice, and then he was just there out of nowhere.