CT Moff Jerjerod’s appearance in The Empire Strikes Back.

Due to Special Edition Changes to ESB that recycle footage shot for Vader’s arrival to the Second Death Star in Return of the Jedi for his arrival on his Super Star Destroyer, we now have Moff Jerjerrod appearing in the Empire Strikes Back in a long shot as Vader debarks his shuttle.


Is there an in universe explanation for why Jerjerrod is there to greet Vader?

 

He was there to do some surveying work because Palpy really liked the design of the Executor's hangar bay and wanted a replica of it for the DS2.

 

Empire special edition is handled really well I think with changes that enhance the film. But this one is a real bug bear of mine, for some reason it annoys me. Its clear its alternate angle footage of landing on the Death Star in Jedi and to make it worse they keep the shot of Jerjerod in there. I think it would have been better to cut it before we see him.

 

The docking bay has been altered for SE of TESB.




If GL went to the trouble of making the changes to the docking bay so it matched a SSD, why didn't he just digitally remove Jerjerrod, may be even CGI another Imperial officer in his place?

That particular shot isn't even the one used in ROTJ, they seem to be an alternative angle that wasn't used.

 

There's no in-universe reason other than instead of acknowledging it as a goof he's supposed to be there.

 

The top image is an all new CGI render of the hanger. The image from Jedi is a combination set and matte painting.

The Death Star 1 Hanger the Falcon lands in was also partially redone with the original matte painting being replaced with a new digital matte painting that looks like the Death Star 2 hanger. This change is pretty seamless.

Not sure if the new digital hanger for the Super Star Destroyer is in anyway based on or uses the new hanger matte painting from A New Hope.

None of this explains in universe why the heck Jerjerrod is there.

 

Agreed and the reason why this is added seems to be thinking the audience are all idiots, who could not understand how Vader got to the SSD.

Bye for now.
Old Stoneface

 

Which reminds me, I keep expecting Vader to say 'bring my shuttle' and instead we get another line that doesn't sound consistent with his voice in the film. A pointless addition.

 

How is it not consistent? It's James Earl Jones, same voice just different tone (obviously).

As for the argument that Lucas thinks the audience are all idiots, that's such a ridiculous claim that it doesn't even deserve a response. Star Wars is full of establishing shots, sequences bridging scenes, etc. It's part of the structure and visual language of the series.

 

Is that actually why it was added? (Not the idiots part, but to show Vader traveling?) I guess if you didn’t watch the movie in a language you understood it isn’t visually conveyed, but neither is Vader revealing he’s Luke’s father.

My hunch was George Lucas didn’t like how the imperial shuttle was introduced to the series in the third movie as a never before seen ship specialized enough to transport the Emperor of the Galaxy while generic enough as a cargo hauler it doesn’t raise suspicion when one is stolen and a team of rebel commandos use it to infiltrate a top secret Imperial base.

In an attempt to normalize the shuttle, two ships with a similar design showing their wings deploy were added to A New Hope and Vader’s same model shuttle is show long enough in The Empire Strikes Back for the audience to recognize it at the start of Return of the Jedi.

I’m not saying that justifies changing the Empire Strikes Back to include it.

But my question is ‘In universe why would Moff Jerjerrod be on the Super Star Destroyer greeting Vader when he returns from Cloud City.’

Is there an in universe explaination?

 

It's lazy and some critics would say that was typical of the way things would go with the ST after Gary Kurz had been replaced.

 

Lazy or cheap - yes.

Is it not widely know Kurtz was replaced as producer before The Empire Strikes Back finished filming? Technically not replaced during filming, Howard Kazanjian was brought on as uncredited producer with a higher level of authority who Kurtz reported to. Kurtz continued to work mostly with the director and actors while Kazanjian handled money, logistics, scheduling and other producer responsibilities.

Kurtz then stepped away and Kazanjian oversaw post production on Empire.

Empire was a very hard production.

 

Because he was assigned to Executor at the time. When you wear a military uniform, you go from one assignment to another when they tell you to. Obviously he was reassigned from Executor to Endor between movies. That's the way it goes when you serve any military.

 

Yes that make sense. Still he’s a Moff which seems to also be a political position of great weight. Grand Moff Tarkin is a governor. I don’t know if the US military has any equivalent rank so lofty and powerful.

We hear the Regional Governors took control when the senate is dissolved. This is like Roman politics / military. For me a Moff can be more equivalent to a medieval lord with lands, subjects, title and military rank or a conquistador assigned by Spanish royalty to govern a colony subjugate a population.

And we don’t Moff J until Vader arrives back. Did he himself just arrive? Is he there to give Vader an order? Did the Emperor send the Moff to check up on what’s was going ok with Luke? Is it Death Star related business.

I didn’t know if there was ever an EU motivation. Maybe even the EU is like that’s a movie mistake and we’re not going near it.

 

He might not have been a moff at the time. Since all the moffs we've seen have worn military uniforms, it's likely they all served in the regular military until they got assigned to more political roles.

 

Just that - the tone of the voice doesn't match anything else in the film.

Its a plausible enough explanation. But I can't get out of my head that its a different angle to the Jedi opening scene.

Anyway, they're both probably all minor details that wash over most people but they're small details that grate on me. for some reason

 

Well, that's bound to happen to those of us that know the "ins and outs" of how these movies were made.

Regardless, it's not like anyone can tell it's Jerjerrod while watching the movie in a regular fashion. You have to freeze frame and pay attention to a background character to realize it's him, or that the shot is from ROTJ. This is a lossless Blu-ray screencap:

 

As a gratuitous step-in, given Jerjerod's deleted-scene strangulation as an avatar...

Some of the timescale for Jerjerrod's re-assignment isn't entirely convincing, given the quick run-in to events in ROTJ, nor the antagonism between them (amounting to full confrontation with Vader in the deleted scenes of ROTJ). But it's an interesting head-canon add-in, I think, to suppose there is more backstory to the characters interacting.

 

ESB did not show the Imperial troops landing beyond the rebel shield on Hoth, nor did it show Vader landing or taking off again. Originally, ESB did not show Vader flying up to and landing on the SSD either.
Because it was not necessary to show that, we get the idea.
Now however, the audience has to see Vader walking towards his shuttle, said shuttle flying through space and landing and Vader walking out. Why?

Also, why alter Vader's dialogue?
"Bring my shuttle!", short and to the point and fits with Vader just having suffered a setback, Luke choose death rather than turning.
"Alert my Star Destroyer to prepare for my arrival." Longer, more wordy and what preparations? Does he always want to land and be met with a small parade? Why?
Lastly, showing Vader's shuttle flying through space and landing and Vader walking out cuts away from the MF coming to rescue Luke and then them getting chased thus breaking up those scenes and messing with the flow.
This is the ending parts of the film, do not waste time with trivial scenes, focus on the main plot.

Bye.
Blackboard Monitor

 

To parallel the aftermath of each character after their confrontation, how each character leaves Bespin until Vader contacts Luke through the Force when they are both in space? The journey of both characters is now intertwined, when originally we only followed Luke.

Seriously, it's not hard to understand the purpose when watching when and where these shots were added. Pretending that this is some sort of anomaly not just in the context of the movie but of the series is ridiculous.

 

Except this reasoning does not hold up to scrutiny.

First, Vader and Luke are not equals here. Take how each gets from the end of the fight up into space.
Vader? How he gets up to the SSD is not hard to understand. Shuttles are an established thing in SW, the empire controls Cloud City so you could cut the bit where he says "Bring my shuttle" and the film would still work.
Luke? Suppose we never saw his fall, him winding up under Cloud City or how he called Leia and she came for him. We saw none of that and went from him letting go and suddenly he is on the MF, being taken care by Leia. That would be jarring and prompt questions, how did Luke get there?

Second, how is the Luke/Vader confrontation structured?
The focus is on Luke. We see him land, make his way through the city before ending up in the cryo-chamber and BOOM, there is Vader. We are NOT shown how Vader got there.
They fight and Luke kicks Vader down, then we follow Luke through some corridor and then Vader pops up. Then Luke gets sucked out the window and winds up down on a platform. He gets up, walks around briefly before Vader again shows up out of nowhere.
So structure is clear, we follow Luke and Vader just keeps appearing, seemingly out of nowhere. This builds the tension and make Vader more scary and intimidating. Luke can not get away from him and he moves around unseen.
Then Luke decides to let go and we again stick with Luke. We do not see Vader walk from the platform, up some stairs, take the elevator back up to Cloud City proper. We have one, brief scene with Vader calling for his shuttle, other than that, the focus stays on Luke. Even when we cut away from him to Leia on the MF, it is tied to Luke. He calls to her and speaks in her mind and she knows where he is and goes to get him.
They do and the MF flies away but then the SSD shows up and again Vader.

So to now spend some time with Vader and show how he gets from A to B, not only is not needed, it also does not fit how the film had been structured until this moment and it messes with the flow and pacing.

Bye.
Old Stoneface

 

That’s an excellent point and interesting how you see the deleted choking scene. Which is accurate.

That deleted scene and a few telling glances from Moff Jerjerrod are what remained in the shooting script of a larger subplot in early drafts of Return of the Jedi that had Vader in a position to be challenged for the favor of Emperor after his failures in The Empire Strikes Back. The Imperial character overseeing simultaneous construction of two Death Stars has the protection of the Emperor and is politically sparring with Vader for his position and power. The story spent more time developing the conflict with the Moff winning against Vader at times.

That deleted subplot seems to have been adapted into both Shadows of the Empire with Prince Xizor and the Sequel Trilogy relationship between Kylo Ren and General Hux.

Eventually Vader has enough of the Moff and kills him with a Force Choke. Even thou Vader disobeyed him, the Emperor is pleased to see Vader back to his old reliable self just in time to confront Like.

I knew about the rough draft before the deleted scene. So when I see it - it’s a diluted version of the original idea’s ending. It’s no longer the resolution to an established personal conflict, instead it’s Vader choking Moff Jerjerrod for appearing to try and limit his access to the Emperor. And the Moff isn’t killed when Vader learns it’s by the Emperor’s order not to admit Vader.

I get the feeling George Lucas really really liked the Vader vs Imperial Moff subplot and couldn’t bring himself to fully cut it out until editing.

The other deleted Moff Jerjerod scene is very interesting. It has the Emperor ordering Moff Jerjerrod to fire the Death Star on the Forrest Moon of Endor. That puts Moff Jerjerrod into a moral quandary as it means killing his fellow Imperials as well as the rebel threat.

He cares about his troops. I don’t remember that side to the character in the early drafts. That plays towards what @Sarge is saying about the Moff being a soldier stationed where he is told and wanting to follow orders.

When I see Moff Jerjerrod in The Empire Strikes Back I’m immediately thinking of the character in the rough drafts being sent by the Emperor with orders that antagonize Vader.

 

I still think it’s just to give the shuttle more screen time.

 

You see, I just really like the Jerjerrod character - despite the few scenes we get in the theatrical cut, Michael Pennington did a nuanced job with him, and conveyed much of the deleted-scenes sentiments without their needing to be shown. You contrast that with Piett (ambitious, obsequious and self-serving) and Tarkin (cunning but lacking in any moral compass) and there is something decidedly more human about him.

Throwing this into TESB strikes me as only enhancing the character. And putting imperial characters in backfooted, unfavourable situations always seems to show their most interesting colours.

 

The early drafts of Return of Jedi also featured General Veers. He’s loyal to the Empire as a military officer, he is competent, and efficient. He’s aligned with Vader because he sees Vader getting results and approves of Vader’s methods cutting through incompetence and the politics of the Empire.

He’s presented as Vader’s trusted subordinate but he’s not a lackey.

Veers has suspicion of Rebel activity on the Sanctuary Forrest Moon orbiting the Imperial Capital City Planet. Veers is getting push back about investigating further and being alarmist. Vader being on the outs can’t cut through the bureaucracy like he normally would but gives Veers permission / support to disregarded orders and follow his own initiative to look for the Rebels.

The story made it no mystery that Leia is leading the Rebels on the moon in constructing canons capable of destroying the two Death Stars being built in orbit around the capital. Some how their setup is hidden and they are using the flow of parts and labor to the Death Stars as cover for what they are bringing in.

It’s later revealed the Emperor is allowing the Rebels to do this as part of his trap and Veers being competent threatened to undermine his plans.

I don’t remember Veers in the early outlines and drafts being asked to fire a Death Star on his own people but the character who would become Moff Jerjerrod would already be killed by Vader at that point if it is in the story, Maybe some of Veers survived into the Moff Jerjerrod character. (I do remember the Moff character is very different from Jerjerrod in the movie.) There is also some of the Veers part in Admiral Piett. (I don’t remember Veers and Piett ever both appearing in the same draft.)